Somebody's Lying

[MoreSiouxForYou]

Has anyone ever seen Kelley or Faison wear the logo? Faison's hockey seats are right by mine and it is interlocking ND all the way for him. I check every game.

[Dagger]

It does seem hard to believe that we had that much control over Douple. To carry out the charade he even told member schools to not schedule UND. Douple was even willing to harm other schools ability to make schedules just to cater to UND. Something about all of this just doesn't fit together. My gut tells me that Douple might not be telling the truth.

[bincitysioux]

................he just bragged about the multiple schools interested in joining the Summit. (I wonder what ever happened with them anyway.)

Utah Valley, Chicago St., Texas-PanAm, and Houston Baptist are all still available to the Summit when they look to expand........

UND taking the Big Sky enraged Douple.

Douple had a vision of building the Summit League around the 4 Dakota schools. He saw it as the best way to fortify what has historically been the most unstable conference in all of the NCAA. It is quite possible that after the first expansion into the Dakota's, the core Summit schools would have preferred a more midwestern based school like SIU-Edwardsville. Douple eventually convinced them to see things his way regarding building around the Dakotas. UND squashed that vision when they joined the Big Sky. Losing SUU, despite claims that everyone in the league wanted them gone, leaves the Summit at an odd number of schools (Big Sky detractors will quickly point out the near insurmountable conundrum that an odd-numbered basketball league presents ).

With SIU-E gone to the OVC, and UND gone to the BSC, the Summit is left with Chicago St., whom they jettisoned from the conference several years ago, as the most logical expansion candidate to get back to an even number of schools. The Summit president's want to see the contingency plan should another round of conference realignments take another bite out of the league. The Big Sky is encroaching on their turf. The Southland is being depleted.

If Douple had never wanted to insert himself into the nickname issue "of his own volition", he wouldn't have at all. He would have simply forwarded UND's membership application to the President's Council and let them debate the issue. His own statements indicated that he alone decided to table the application.

Again I ask, how in the world could the president of a university that isn't a member of a league, have the influence to convince the commissioner of that league to publically conduct himself in the manner in which Douple did, drawing criticism and antagonizing the stake-holders of that university to the point where many of us detested the Summit League long before the Big Sky ever came into play?

As full fledged members of the Big Sky, just think of the things that Kelley and Faison will be able get Doug Fullerton to do for UND.

[ScottM]

So was that fate, or Kelley?

Doesn't it bother UND fans that these allegations would prove Kelley to be a dishonorable liar?

And they are only allegations at this point, from fairly suspect sources. I presume Kelley was doing what he believed was in the best interests of the school at large, and not the name/logo or the provincial interests of a few people who only see REA as UND. I don't see him as an NC$$ Fifth Columnist, or a plant from 'su to undermine the school. He's an administrator who has to administer a fairly unwieldy enterprise and manage a variety of stakeholders' expectations. The school and its mission are much more than the Sioux name/logo or the hockey team. Yes, I know that revelation may shatter a few Busch Light sodden egos, but it is what it is.

[PhillySioux]

Jesus, all of this rehashing of past issues reminds me of women who can't forget the last time you left the toilet seat up, or the local idiots who think "the South will rise again".

1. UND got into the Big Sky, a better and more legitimate conference that met UND's needs and ambitions.

2. The Summit folks should have never let the name/logo issue became a ticket to admission, esp since the issue wasn't fully dead. They paid for it accordingly.

3. UND and the Board agreed to settle the name/logo issue on the terms of the agreement. The hurdles agreed to, e.g., permission from two tribes, are part of that agreement.

4. The legislature probably doesn't have the legal authority to revise the agreement or prevent UND from abiding by it. If they force a breach of the agreement, you will have a real !@#$ storm on your hands, and you may kiss the D1 dream good-bye.

5. I don't trust anything Kolpack writes. He makes Perez Hilton look absolutely credible.

6. UND losing the name/logo was the implicit price for a relatively smooth move to D1 in all sports.

Agreed, wholeheartedly. Can we get back to being excited about hockey and football signing day in one week?

[GeauxSioux]

Kelley denies pressuring Summit League on nickname issue

UND President Robert Kelley repeated this morning his denial that he ever asked Summit League Commissioner Tom Douple to publicly come out against accepting the Fighting Sioux as a league member until the school's controversial nickname issue was resolved.

"Tom has been very consistent with me that once we resolved the logo issue, the Summit League would review our appeal," Kelley said today as he waited for the House Education Committee to begin hearings on three bills that would require UND to retain the nickname and logo.

"I am very surprised to find Tom thought there was pressure put on him to speak out on this issue," Kelley said.

"There has been some urgency on our part to get this resolved. I think he felt some urgency on our part. But I don't recall every putting pressure on Tom as he implied.

[petey23]

It does seem hard to believe that we had that much control over Douple. To carry out the charade he even told member schools to not schedule UND. Douple was even willing to harm other schools ability to make schedules just to cater to UND. Something about all of this just doesn't fit together. My gut tells me that Douple might not be telling the truth.

Well Douple has lied before.....even it was just to cover for Gene Taylor's lying ass. I brought this up a couple years ago and it all stems from when Taylor was on Hammer's radio show and was stammering and fumbling through reasons why NDSU wouldn't schedule UND in football(remember, this was a couple years ago...I know situation is different now) and Taylor says that the Summit league was telling all their teams not to schedule UND due to the name issue which wasn't true(UND had played several summit teams in several sports). Douple was then asked about it and lied to cover Taylor's arrogant lying ass. That said, I think the real answer is that both Kelly and Douple have been less than truthful in this matter. Unfortuntely, from what I have been told, The Summit league doesn't have to release their league meeting minutes and other correspondance such as memos and emails that would allegedlly tell their league members not to schedule UND as Taylor said, since Oral Roberts is a private school.

[firewall]

So who do we believe: President Kelly vs Douple or Kolpack? I choose President Kelly. Douple is feeling snubbed and rejected. He now has the Big Sky footprint at his backdoor. Kolpack, well his bias speaks for itself.

[star2city]

Kelley denies pressuring Summit League on nickname issue

That statement by Kelley is so full of eloquent weasel words, making Kelley all the more suspicious. The words "pressuring" iand "pressure"are what Kelley is hiding behind: a used-car salemans like Douple doesn't need "pressure" to do a sleazy deal.

What the reporter should ask if there was any talk between Kelley and Douple about such a deal, regardless of pressure. Without being a member, Kelley was in no position to pressure anybody.

[star2city]

And they are only allegations at this point, from fairly suspect sources. I presume Kelley was doing what he believed was in the best interests of the school at large, and not the name/logo or the provincial interests of a few people who only see REA as UND. I don't see him as an NC$$ Fifth Columnist, or a plant from 'su to undermine the school. He's an administrator who has to administer a fairly unwieldy enterprise and manage a variety of stakeholders' expectations. The school and its mission are much more than the Sioux name/logo or the hockey team. Yes, I know that revelation may shatter a few Busch Light sodden egos, but it is what it is.

ScottM: Hope you didn't learn all the PR skills from UND law school.

No one is arguing Kelley did anything illegal, it's just his ethics that are being questioned.

Perhaps we should check with a non-lawyer on those issues.

Have we become like bison fans that turn a blind eye to presidential ethic charges?

[Oxbow6]

So who do we believe: President Kelly vs Douple or Kolpack? I choose President Kelly. Douple is feeling snubbed and rejected. He now has the Big Sky footprint at his backdoor. Kolpack, well his bias speaks for itself.

I believe the true answer is somewhere in the middle of Douple's claim and Kelly's denial. Let's face it, Kelly was never in favor of keeping the Sioux nickname or logo. For those of you who disagree with that, give me one quote on the record that proves otherwise. Douple got burned by UND so his claim is suspect, but I personally do think something was said off the record to support some of his story. Kolpack...he's just a 'SU tool.

As ScottM said, it is what it is at this point but at least UND rubes aren't tossing back Grain Belts like some SU posters on this site!

[SooToo]

I agree, we are in a great conference. That is NOT the issue.

Here is the issue:

Either Kelley or Douple lied. Do we want someone like Kelley as the leader of our fine university? What other unethical (illegal?) things is he doing on the more "minor" issues?

Kelley doesn't stand out as anything special. He is a figurehead who can be easily replaced. If this is true, I believe the SBoHE should fire him, as he will no longer have any credibility.

Now, if Douple lied, he should be removed immediately, blah blah, but I don't really care, as that is not UND's conference. My interest is in the University of North Dakota, and its fine history as an institution of higher learning.

Really? Hey, as we used to say in the newsroom, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

There is nothing -- n-o-t-h-i-n-g -- in this story to back up Kolpack's claim in the lead that Kelley or anyone at UND asked the Sumit "to publicly come out against accepting the Fighting Sioux as a member until the controversial mickname and logo issue was resolved." NO ONE is quoted in the story, either directly or indirectly, saying this. Douple doesn't say this anywhere within the story.

I realize this is an opportunity for every nickname die-hard to rail against the guy in charge when the Fighting Sioux name was lost but honestly, this is the kind of reading comprehension and hysterical, Chicken-Little response I would expect over at Bisonville.

And I hope Star doesn't practice law; I didn't know that "allegations would prove Kelley to be a dishonorable liar." Unless, of course, you made up your mind long ago. Amazing responses to a complete non-story.

[choyt3]

I am surprised that when JBB called Tom Douple and said he was "President Kelley", that Douple believed him.

[LB#11]

So who do we believe: President Kelley vs Douple or Kolpack? I choose President Kelley. Douple is feeling snubbed and rejected. He now has the Big Sky footprint at his backdoor. Kolpack, well his bias speaks for itself.

Today would be a good day for President Kelley to step to the plate. We all know the Fighting Sioux nickname is hanging on by a thread, why not try get yourself in good graces with the 90%+ of UND students & alumni that want to keep the name? The facts are all there...the NCAA needs the support of 2 tribes-Spirit Lake overwhelming supports it, Standing Rock would do the same if given the opportunity. Obviously President Kelley doesn't have the emotion that a lot of us do, but he does have the power to make things happen. With the recent headlines, I would recommend President Kelley do something.

[Risky]

This Douple guy must be a real piece of work.

[darell1976]

Everything didn't work out: we won't have the Sioux name.

Look at what Kelley allegedly did:

- As a tactic in the ridding UND of the Sioux name, he allowed Douple and other media to trash UND in the press. Kelley caused that trashing.

- He purposely misled the SBoHE, by imposing an artificial barrier to conference membership that never actually existed

- When the SBoHE pulled the name, that took the heat off of Standing Rock.

- Lied and misled the UND community on his true stand regard the Sioux name.

- Harmed the DI transition by delaying conference acceptance for two years.

All of those actions are reprehensible. All were allegedly done by Kelley. If they are true, the SBoHE should fire Kelley. They would have cause.

Kolpack thinks he wins by sending UND into disarray.

That is NOT Kelley's fault that is the Standing Rock's fault. What was Kelley to do tell the SR either get a total tribe vote or else? If anyone is to blame for this mess blame that dumbass AG Wayne Stenjeum. He messed up this whole thing from the beginning. If we could have had 1 tribal vote we wouldn't be talking about this.

[Old Time Hockey]

That is NOT Kelley's fault that is the Standing Rock's fault. What was Kelley to do tell the SR either get a total tribe vote or else? If anyone is to blame for this mess blame that dumbass AG Wayne Stenjeum. He messed up this whole thing from the beginning. If we could have had 1 tribal vote we wouldn't be talking about this.

Don't you think Stenejem tried to negotiate a one tribe solution?

[dakota fairways]

It looks like Douple is getting a swirly from the Summit Presidents over losing UND to the Big Sky and doesn't want to go down alone. How can he possibly think that claiming a non-member successfully exerted influence on a decision of this magnitude would make him look better? This whole story just doesn't make sense from either perspective.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

Really? Hey, as we used to say in the newsroom, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

There is nothing -- n-o-t-h-i-n-g -- in this story to back up Kolpack's claim in the lead that Kelley or anyone at UND asked the Sumit "to publicly come out against accepting the Fighting Sioux as a member until the controversial mickname and logo issue was resolved." NO ONE is quoted in the story, either directly or indirectly, saying this. Douple doesn't say this anywhere within the story.

I realize this is an opportunity for every nickname die-hard to rail against the guy in charge when the Fighting Sioux name was lost but honestly, this is the kind of reading comprehension and hysterical, Chicken-Little response I would expect over at Bisonville.

And I hope Star doesn't practice law; I didn't know that "allegations would prove Kelley to be a dishonorable liar." Unless, of course, you made up your mind long ago. Amazing responses to a complete non-story.

To write a story like this in a publication other than the National Enquirer, there is something, s-o-m-e-t-h-i-n-g.

I don't think this or any bill will save the nickname, that is good as gone. My problem is, did the leader of our University lie to us all? I'm not sure, we need more information and on-camera interviews of the parties involved.

I will sort of turn around what you wrote above about the newsroom quote, and write this: You are creating the facts without listening to the story.

[darell1976]

Don't you think Stenejem tried to negotiate a one tribe solution?

We don't know. Thats the problem. Every school that kept their name got 1 tribal approval. And everyone in ND including that !@#!$! knew that the SR was going to be near impossible to get their blessing unlike the Spirit Lake who did have approval back in 2000. But It was never published what the horse trade deal was some think its 2 tribes for an extended period of years to get both approvals...which IMO is stupid beyond belief.

[Walsh Hall]

Kelley denies pressuring Summit League on nickname issue

It really rubs me the wrong way when someone responses to a very serious allegation with the, "I don't recall" line. An event and statement of this magnitude, in his position, is not something he would forget. If this was a statement he would NEVER make, and didn't make, he should simply state, "I would never, and never did pressure the Summit league to..."

If someone asks you, "Did you say (insert outrageous statement you would never make)?" I assume your response would be "Hell No!," not "I don't recall."

Without any personal information I don't like to make a judgment on someone's character, but there are some causes for concern.

[darell1976]

It really rubs me the wrong way when someone responses to a very serious allegation with the, "I don't recall" line. An event and statement of this magnitude, in his position, is not something he would forget. If this was a statement he would NEVER make, and didn't make, he should simply state, "I would never, and never did pressure the Summit league to..."

If someone asks you, "Did you say (insert outrageous statement you would never make)?" I assume your response would be "Hell No!," not "I don't recall."

Without any personal information I don't like to make a judgment on someone's character, but there are some causes for concern.

Good point.

[Oxbow6]

It really rubs me the wrong way when someone responses to a very serious allegation with the, "I don't recall" line. An event and statement of this magnitude, in his position, is not something he would forget. If this was a statement he would NEVER make, and didn't make, he should simply state, "I would never, and never did pressure the Summit league to..."If someone asks you, "Did you say (insert outrageous statement you would never make)?" I assume your response would be "Hell No!," not "I don't recall."

Without any personal information I don't like to make a judgment on someone's character, but there are some causes for concern.

Agree...that was one of the 1st things that came to my mind as well.

[darell1976]

Why does Douple even comment on this? One would think that drawing UND into a Summit/MVFC combo down the road is still a goal for them. Why burn this bridge, true or not?

Just sour grapes?

Or does a current member institution never want to be put in the position where they have to veto UND into the Summit? How would Kolpack spin that?

Maybe he wants to prove Kelley a liar and the Big Sky should beware when dealing with UND. I hope it all comes out and blows up in Douple's face.

[Risky]

It really rubs me the wrong way when someone responses to a very serious allegation with the, "I don't recall" line. An event and statement of this magnitude, in his position, is not something he would forget. If this was a statement he would NEVER make, and didn't make, he should simply state, "I would never, and never did pressure the Summit league to..."

If someone asks you, "Did you say (insert outrageous statement you would never make)?" I assume your response would be "Hell No!," not "I don't recall."

Without any personal information I don't like to make a judgment on someone's character, but there are some causes for concern.

It is possible he used the words don't recall to soften the situation and not come right out and call Douple a liar. He might be trying to not totally embarrass Douple.