Penn State 'close" to adding hockey

[gjw007]

Wow, how did Bemidji and Mankato end up with the Michigan Schools? Travel would kill their budgets (and probably programs) when UND, SCSU, UMD and UNO are all closer.

I think if the Big Ten schools break off, you will need to see a more regional alliance. This will help offset the travel part of the budget with the monies lost from possibly not playing the Minnesotas and Wisconsins of the hockey world.

One of the attraction of college hockey is that the big schools often play the smaller schools. If it went to a completely regional basis with all the small schools playing only other small schools, the question then is whether this is actually good for college hockey. By being regional, it may help offset the costs but it may also diminish the program by not being able to become a national player. Several of the Big Ten Schools, specifically Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, along with other schools such as UND, Denver, Boston College have been national players. These schools will want to continue to be national players whereas if they (UND, Denver, CC) are in a region with the smaller schools, they may end up losing this. The question then becomes, at some time, will Division II college start again as many of these smaller schools are DII.

I am not opposed to the Big Ten Hockey Conference but I do understand that it could mean the demise of college hockey as it has been historically if the realignment is not well thought out. Would it mean the demise of the smaller schools? If so, is this actually good for college hockey and if these school fail, would college hockey continue with only 15 or 20 teams (Big Ten, Hockey East, scattering of other schools)?

[star2city]

INCH: Penn State to make official DI Hockey announcement this coming Friday (Sept 17)

[nodakvindy]

INCH: Penn State to make official DI Hockey announcement this coming Friday (Sept 17)

Hopefully UND has it's BYU plan ready, as that could be the best option. The next best option would probably be a six team league of DU, CC, UND, UMD, Notre Dame and Miami. Would be enough for an autobid but have room for non-conference games. It also preserves the most important remaining conference rivalries and gets us away from Bruce McLeod.

Other leagues alignments -

WCHA - UAA, UNO, MSUM, SCSU, BSU, MTU, NMU, LSSU -

CCHA - UAF, FSU, WMU, BGSU, UAH, Mercyhurt, Niagara, Robert Morris

[Smoggy]

While overall I think the Big Ten conference isn't a great idea for hockey there are some positives if it happens. The Big Ten teams will have plenty of non-conference games to play and teams just need to be smart and schedule a trip there and then home next year. Keep in mind we don't see them at home every year the way it is. Also this may open things up for Alabama-Huntsville to get in a conference (though the travel issue may be too much to swallow). Also with conference options open maybe other teams start up. Of course the opposite could happen and teams struggle more financially due to lost money of conference tourneys and fold or drop down.

[brianvf]

I'm all for a new conference (or a new-look WCHA) if the BTHC occurs.

I'd only wonder where our conference tourney would be held.

[nodak hockey fanatic]

So the new BTHC has 6 teams, enough for an autobid, which is all that matters, and all they really care about besides money. Rivalries and conference integrity in the rest of college hockey is not on their radar. WCHA loses powerhouse UW and bottom halfer Minny. CCHA hit hardest losing Mich, Mich St, and Ohio St. And Penn State makes it a legit autobid conference. From what has been out there for months (years), Notre Dame has no interest in the Big Ten in any sport. There are infinite ways conferences could be realigned, and maybe college hockey could take this time to do a full overhaul, but realistically there will be minimal changing and shifting. I am probably in the minority here, but I couldn't care less what conference we are in, or who else is in it. Obviously it makes sense to stay aligned with the remaining minnesota schools (we lose to bottom feeder mn school, so no big loss ). I would also like to see us stay aligned with UNO and the Colorado schools, but who knows. But bottom line is that UND is the upper tier of college hockey, and will continue to be. I would miss games against Minny and Wisco, but hope and pray that we wouldn't schedule them unless it was for equal games home and away. Screw both of them if they think their enormous non-conference schedule will all be coming to their rinks (which alot will just to play them). I am all for some expansion, and actually I am for a full realignment, but not sure of the reality of this. With Nebraska in the big 10, 12 whatever it is now, they could add a team with UNO being a rivalry right down I-80. And big 10 schools have money, so another could add a program, eventually making it an 8 team conference. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. In the meantime, lets kick the !@$! out of UW and Minny while they are still in our conference and get #8!

[Snake]

I'm all for a new conference (or a new-look WCHA) if the BTHC occurs.

I'd only wonder where our conference tourney would be held.

I wonder if the Big Ten would have their conference tourney in Chicago, therefore leaving St. Paul open for the WCHA.

[mksioux]

With the arrival of Penn State, I've heard differing reports about whether a full-fledge BTHC is mandatory or just optional. Regardless, I think a full-fledge BTHC is inevitable. In my opinion, Wisconsin wants no part of the WCHA anymore. The addition of two more DII institutions (UNO and Bemidji State) put Wisconsin over the top. My guess is that Ohio State and Penn State will also lobby hard for a full-time BTHC. And the Big Ten itself obviously wants a meaningful full fledge BTHC for its television network. So everything points to that happening. So I hope UND administrators are preparing for a plan for a future without Minnesota and Wisconsin in the WCHA.

A few preliminary thoughts:

1) I would encourage UND fans to look beyond the current competitive balance on the ice when forming opinions about who UND should be in a conference with. UND should focus more on aligning with similar institutions, and bringing more visibility to the program, and not simply on which teams happen to be "good" or "bad" at the moment. Long term vision is needed here.

2) I think it would be a bad idea for UND to stay in the WCHA with the loss of UW and UM. I would not want to see UND remain in an essentially DII Minnesota league. I like idea of alligning with Denver (which necessarily means alligning with CC as well) and then hooking up with the other higher visibility DI schools in the central, most notably Notre Dame, and then forming a conference around that core.

3) There is no college hockey czar, so the chance of people getting together and collectively overhauling conference allignment for the betterment of college hockey in general is slim to none. Each school is going to look out for its own best interest, and I encourage UND adminstrators to do the same.

4) Finally, just because UND is near the top of the college hockey world right now does not automatically mean that will continue that way. UND needs to make the right moves to minimize the damage of a BTHC and to put UND in the best position to succeed going forward.

[siouxweet]

I realy don't see a huge realignment occuring if the bthc comes about. I can see UAH heading to the CCHA, UAF heading to the WCHA and Tech heading to CCHA. The same thing will happen here as in college football, everyone will think a huge realignment willtake place but in reality only a few moves will actually take place. I still see the X holding the WCHA tournament, but maybe on a rorating basis with omaha. I really do see some scheduling problems for the bthc because if the wcha and ccha stay at their current levels as far as number of teams that still leaves only 6-8 NC games for each school, unless the big ten schools play each other 6 times.

[mksioux]

I realy don't see a huge realignment occuring if the bthc comes about. I can see UAH heading to the CCHA, UAF heading to the WCHA and Tech heading to CCHA. The same thing will happen here as in college football, everyone will think a huge realignment willtake place but in reality only a few moves will actually take place. I still see the X holding the WCHA tournament, but maybe on a rorating basis with omaha. I really do see some scheduling problems for the bthc because if the wcha and ccha stay at their current levels as far as number of teams that still leaves only 6-8 NC games for each school, unless the big ten schools play each other 6 times.

There will be no cascade of conference realignment unless schools like UND, Denver, and Notre Dame make it happen. My fear is that UND is going to be loyal to the WCHA and little will change, except the minor adjustments you mention. I think that would be a big mistake for UND to stay in a conference with only one Division I institution as a conference opponent, but it could very well happen. My comments are what UND should do, not my prediction as to what will happen.

But I think you are wrong about the Big Ten schools having difficulty with a non-conference schedule. Teams will be falling all over themselves to schedule them.

[star2city]

I realy don't see a huge realignment occuring if the bthc comes about. I can see UAH heading to the CCHA, UAF heading to the WCHA and Tech heading to CCHA. The same thing will happen here as in college football, everyone will think a huge realignment willtake place but in reality only a few moves will actually take place. I still see the X holding the WCHA tournament, but maybe on a rorating basis with omaha. I really do see some scheduling problems for the bthc because if the wcha and ccha stay at their current levels as far as number of teams that still leaves only 6-8 NC games for each school, unless the big ten schools play each other 6 times.

Denver isn't going to be pleased whatsoever with staying in a new WCHA. Same with Notre Dame in the CCHA: Notre Dame has no vested interest in helping Upper Peninsula schools the way Mich and Mich St did. Denver and Notre Dame will join forces and start a new league and could instantly add CC, Omaha, Miami (and Bowling Green and WMU if Notre Dame wanted them.) UND would have to chose between that league and the WCHA.

The reverse situation just happened in lacrosse with Notre Dame, when the Big East insisted that all Big East lacrosse schools fall under one banner. Denver, Air Force, and Ohio State had been conference mates with Notre Dame. Lacrosse had been much like hockey in that traditional conference boundaries did not matter: but that entirely changed when the Big East forced the issue on Syracuse and the other five Big East lacrosse teams (Notre Dame, Vilanova, St John's, Providence, Georgetown). There was immediate wholesale shuffling of conferences, with the western lacrosse league folding, and with Denver, Ohio State, and Air Force moving to the ECAC, which is actually a power conference in that sport.

[Matt]

There will be no cascade of conference realignment unless schools like UND, Denver, and Notre Dame make it happen. My fear is that UND is going to be loyal to the WCHA and little will change, except the minor adjustments you mention. I think that would be a big mistake for UND to stay in a conference with only one Division I institution as a conference opponent, but it could very well happen. My comments are what UND should do, not my prediction as to what will happen.

But I think you are wrong about the Big Ten schools having difficulty with a non-conference schedule. Teams will be falling all over themselves to schedule them.

From this perspective, was the entire move up to division 1 a potential benefit to hockey?

[puck swami]

I believe DU and North Dakota need to be leaders in this new world order if the BTHC happens as seperate conference.

UND is now a D-I school and needs to think like, and be with, schools that play hockey as a serious revenue sport.

I think DU, UND, CC, Notre Dame, and Miami would be a great start for a core conference to rival the Big 10.

We just can't sit around and let the big 10 relegate us into mid major irrelevance.

[ScottM]

Denver isn't going to be pleased whatsoever with staying in a new WCHA. Same with Notre Dame in the CCHA: Notre Dame has no vested interest in helping Upper Peninsula schools the way Mich and Mich St did. Denver and Notre Dame will join forces and start a new league and could instantly add CC, Omaha, Miami (and Bowling Green and WMU if Notre Dame wanted them.) UND would have to chose between that league and the WCHA.

I think UND will have no choice at some point but to move beyond its D2 heritage if the hockey gods decree some sort of realignment. I think UND, ND, DU and Miami would be naturals for each other in hockey and could anchor a new hockey conference or some revamped conference. There could still be school-by-school contracts for annual matchups. No matter how you slice it, Minnesota and Wisconsin benefit ($$$) whenever the Sioux come to town for hockey. So a move to a B10-only hockey conference may not necessarily sever those rivalries, although scheduling could be problematic.

[star2city]

I believe DU and North Dakota need to be leaders in this new world order if the BTHC happens as seperate conference.

UND is now a D-I school and needs to think like, and be with, schools that play hockey as a serious revenue sport.

I think DU, UND, CC, Notre Dame, and Miami would be a great start for a core conference to rival the Big 10.

We just can't sit around and let the big 10 relegate us into mid major irrelevance.

Expect Trev Alberts to move Omaha to DI next year. Omaha wants to be a player.

With a new western conference of mostly DI schools and Notre Dame, that might be enough for schools like DePaul, Marquette, or Iowa State to consider hockey.

[star2city]

I think UND will have no choice at some point but to move beyond its D2 heritage if the hockey gods decree some sort of realignment. I think UND, ND, DU and Miami would be naturals for each other in hockey and could anchor a new hockey conference or some revamped conference. There could still be school-by-school contracts for annual matchups. No matter how you slice it, Minnesota and Wisconsin benefit ($$$) whenever the Sioux come to town for hockey. So a move to a B10-only hockey conference may not necessarily sever those rivalries, although scheduling could be problematic.

Politically, the Minnesota DII schools will have to stick together, but just can't see UND sticking with them. Even UMD was not an original member of the WCHA, and SCSU, MSU-M and Bemidji are all relatively recent adds. We have much more history with DU and CC than any of them. The worst aspect would be the loss of the Final Five.

[Smoggy]

3) There is no college hockey czar, so the chance of people getting together and collectively overhauling conference allignment for the betterment of college hockey in general is slim to none. Each school is going to look out for its own best interest, and I encourage UND adminstrators to do the same.

I thought that someone important was hired to help oversee or promote college hockey. But maybe I'm thinking of a different body of hockey.

[redwing77]

So my understanding is to abandon the WCHA, align with DU and CC and then attempt to woo other teams like Notre Dame.

Cool!

So.... when the pick and choose conference is formed and we're in a conference where, basically, every player will have enough frequent flyer miles to take a trip from Grand Forks to China every year or two, will they reconsider in order to.. you know... make travel costs.... less than incredibly unrealistically expensive?

Travel expenses... Think about it. You want to help pay for it? We will. They'll be part of the entity known as..... TICKET PRICES and Merchandising.

No thanks.

The WCHA won't be as badly affected as the CCHA, but to try to pick and choose will be ridiculous.

The "non BTHC" powerhouses that remain are DU, UND, Miami, and Notre Dame really. This is dumb to align with despite its strength (and I know I pontificated adding Miami).

The issue is with the CCHA. If the BTHC is formed, the CCHA is left with 8 teams. What will they do? Will they try to go back to a 10 team conference and add UAH and perhaps target a stronger AHA team like Niagara?

[puck swami]

So my understanding is to abandon the WCHA, align with DU and CC and then attempt to woo other teams like Notre Dame.

Cool!

So.... when the pick and choose conference is formed and we're in a conference where, basically, every player will have enough frequent flyer miles to take a trip from Grand Forks to China every year or two, will they reconsider in order to.. you know... make travel costs.... less than incredibly unrealistically expensive?

Travel expenses... Think about it. You want to help pay for it? We will. They'll be part of the entity known as..... TICKET PRICES and Merchandising.

No thanks.

The WCHA won't be as badly affected as the CCHA, but to try to pick and choose will be ridiculous.

The "non BTHC" powerhouses that remain are DU, UND, Miami, and Notre Dame really. This is dumb to align with despite its strength (and I know I pontificated adding Miami).

The issue is with the CCHA. If the BTHC is formed, the CCHA is left with 8 teams. What will they do? Will they try to go back to a 10 team conference and add UAH and perhaps target a stronger AHA team like Niagara?

The potential breakaway schools have invested millions and millions into hockey and will get little benefit from playing in a crippled WCHA.

DU and CC fly almost every week and still make money now. UND, Notre Dame and Miami would have to pony up about $150,000- 200,000 more in travel costs, but that's well worth it with the quality of conference that could be created to really rival the Big 10 as a recruiting destination and in increased TV interest.

[Big A HG]

Everyone is upset about the idea of Minnesota and Wisconsin ditching the rest of the WCHA for the Big Ten hockey conference, but no one seems to mind us doing the same thing essentially by forming a new conference with DU, CC, the other ND, and Miami (and others). Why would we get a pass for ditching the little guys when that's exactly what we're mad about with the Big Ten schools?

[star2city]

Everyone is upset about the idea of Minnesota and Wisconsin ditching the rest of the WCHA for the Big Ten hockey conference, but no one seems to mind us doing the same thing essentially by forming a new conference with DU, CC, the other ND, and Miami (and others). Why would we get a pass for ditching the little guys when that's exactly what we're mad about with the Big Ten schools?

Wouldn't say everyone is upset, but change of any kind is unsettling. As far as ditching the little guys, you either run with the big dogs or stay on the porch.

This would be way down the road, but what if schools like Utah, Iowa State, Washington, Marquette, or even Texas get the idea that they wouldn't mind pulling a Penn State and being in a hockey league of big name dogs like Notre Dame? That never would have been possible with the old setup. Ralph's intention when he gave the arena was to allow UND to run with the big dogs.

[the green team]

150-200K is very much on the light side of travel budget increase if you end up having to fly that much more. Expect closer to 600K to 800K. If you a had on average 5 more trips a year that required flights- it's going to add up in a hurry.

[star2city]

150-200K is very much on the light side of travel budget increase if you end up having to fly that much more. Expect closer to 600K to 800K. If you a had on average 5 more trips a year that required flights- it's going to add up in a hurry.

Hockey flies commerical, not charter like football.

[jimdahl]

From Kevin Pates' Duluth News Tribune article, WCHA could lose Gophers and Badgers:

“If a Big Ten league does happen, we’d still be interested in scheduling teams that we’ve been playing for so many years, like UMD and St. Cloud State,” Lucia said.

I know when I think of what big rivalry games Minnesota might lose under a BTHC, UMD is the first that jumps to mind

[jk]

From Kevin Pates' Duluth News Tribune article, WCHA could lose Gophers and Badgers:

I know when I think of what big rivalry games Minnesota might lose under a BTHC, UMD is the first that jumps to mind

Hey if you'd only won like 4 of your last 15 against them (haven't checked the real numbers), you'd be trying to forget UND too.