Penn State 'close" to adding hockey

[mksioux]

So my understanding is to abandon the WCHA, align with DU and CC and then attempt to woo other teams like Notre Dame.

Cool!

So.... when the pick and choose conference is formed and we're in a conference where, basically, every player will have enough frequent flyer miles to take a trip from Grand Forks to China every year or two, will they reconsider in order to.. you know... make travel costs.... less than incredibly unrealistically expensive?

Travel expenses... Think about it. You want to help pay for it? We will. They'll be part of the entity known as..... TICKET PRICES and Merchandising.

No thanks.

The WCHA won't be as badly affected as the CCHA, but to try to pick and choose will be ridiculous.

The "non BTHC" powerhouses that remain are DU, UND, Miami, and Notre Dame really. This is dumb to align with despite its strength (and I know I pontificated adding Miami).

The issue is with the CCHA. If the BTHC is formed, the CCHA is left with 8 teams. What will they do? Will they try to go back to a 10 team conference and add UAH and perhaps target a stronger AHA team like Niagara?

You're placing too much emphasis on travel expenses. The WCHA being a primarily bus conference is a relatively recent thing. Through the 1981 season, with Michigan, Michigan State, and Notred Dame in the conference, the WCHA was primarily an air conference for UND, not a bus conference. A few more (commercial) air trips per year is chump change compared to the cost of staying in a league with a diminishing profile.

[mksioux]

I wonder what leaving the WCHA (and the resulting schedule) would do to Minnesota's Strength of Schedule component when it comes to Pairwise? If they fill their non-BTHC with cupcakes, they might find themselves woefully deficient.

They wouldn't have to fill their non-conference schedule with cupcakes. They would be able to hand pick their non-conference schedule with a mix of WCHA schools and the same amount of cupcakes that they've always scheduled. They'd be able to keep their SOS about the same as it is now.

[Southernmn]

EDIT: This, of course, assumes that the other four Big Ten schools want to play in parralel leagues. My guess is that unless all of the Big Ten schools sign off on parralel leagues, the Big Ten would dictate a full fledged BTHC.

Thats the way this thing will end up going. Everyone is stating "if MN/WIS decide" to join the BTHC (when it is created). I don't think they wiil have a choice or a say in the matter. The Big 10 will mandate the move to accomodate the BTN, who at this point really holds the purse strings for everyone's athletic budgets. Lucia has been on record as saying he does not want to leave the WCHA for ANY reason, but even if he is still around when the BTHC gets created, he ain't going to have much to say about it.

[star2city]

Thats the way this thing will end up going. Everyone is stating "if MN/WIS decide" to join the BTHC (when it is created). I don't think they wiil have a choice or a say in the matter. The Big 10 will mandate the move to accomodate the BTN, who at this point really holds the purse strings for everyone's athletic budgets. Lucia has been on record as saying he does not want to leave the WCHA for ANY reason, but even if he is still around when the BTHC gets created, he ain't going to have much to say about it.

That's likely a very accurate forecast. What Minnesota will to placate the in-state schools is push the DQ cup. Regular season series between UMTC and outstate schools will more likely be on the model of UMTC-MSUM, where Mankato schedules one of it's home games at the Excel. But in the new system, Minnesota and the outstate schools share that Exel revenue. Michigan and Michigan St will probably push for some type of regular season in-state championship along the same lines. But all the changes likely won't happen for three or four years. Penn State probably will play in the CCHA for a couple years - as a number of media contracts would need to expire and Penn State needs to gets it's feet wet before the BTHC can really start.

[ScottM]

I don't understand -- why would the number of non-conference games necessarily shift Minnesota away from ~60% home games? Say Minnesota was part of a BTHC, and decided it needed to play UND to fill out the schedule. If UND would only agree to a home/away series in consecutive years with Minnesota, as speculated, half Minnesota's games would be travel. That's pretty much what the WCHA currently mandates, teams play home and away series (except for the missing series and the whole natural rivals thingy, which I think also evens out).

Or is the theory that UND getting non-conference home/away series out of Minnesota would lead the Ferris St and Union's of the world to demand the same?

I was playing with Brad's theory that Minnesota may have the stark choice of playing a bunch of NC cupcakes at Mariucci, and face the possible revenues lost relative to say, UND or SCCC playing there, or having to travel to NC sites to meet a contractual obligation and writing a check for travel. UND generally plays NC games at REA and away based on its deals. I doubt UND would agree to solely play at Mariucci and deprive themselves of that revenue. A Tech or Ferris State may not have that power. Minnesota has the luxury of fairly close traveling except to Alaska, or if it ventures east. Their travel schedule would be even closer, and probably cheaper, in a Big Ten conference. Playing NC opponents in Boston, GF or Denver would reduce any possible savings in that regard.

As a practical matter, I would be very disappointed if UND did anything to accommodate a move of Minnesota and Wisconsin to a Big 10 conference with regard to scheduling, or otherwise.

[Goon]

As a practical matter, I would be very disappointed if UND did anything to accommodate a move of Minnesota and Wisconsin to a Big 10 conference with regard to scheduling, or otherwise.

Is that a wise move? Wisconsin and Minnesota fill the Ralph when they come to town, I don't know if the Athletic department can turn down that money. Of course with a 12 team WCHA right now we won't see them as much anyways.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Goon

[ScottM]

Is that a wise move? Wisconsin and Minnesota fill the Ralph when they come to town, I don't know if the Athletic department can turn down that money.

I was talking about some sort of one-sided agreement where UND might play there 2 series, and Minnesota only has to play 1 series at REA. It's sort of what happens now with the "natural rival" nonsense, but there's no reason UND should be bound to it for NC play.

[Goon]

I was talking about some sort of one-sided agreement where UND might play there 2 series, and Minnesota only has to play 1 series at REA. It's sort of what happens now with the "natural rival" nonsense, but there's no reason UND should be bound to it for NC play.

In that situation, I think I would tell them to go pound sand.

[jodcon]

In that situation, I think I would tell them to go pound sand.

Second that.

[fightingsioux4life]

In that situation, I think I would tell them to go pound sand.

Agree 110%. That's the same answer I would give NDSU if they offered that deal for football and the Gophers would deserve the same thing. But I think they would give us a fair 1 for 1 deal because we are a big draw for them and they need us as much as we need them.

[Big A HG]

Wouldn't say everyone is upset, but change of any kind is unsettling. As far as ditching the little guys, you either run with the big dogs or stay on the porch.

This would be way down the road, but what if schools like Utah, Iowa State, Washington, Marquette, or even Texas get the idea that they wouldn't mind pulling a Penn State and being in a hockey league of big name dogs like Notre Dame? That never would have been possible with the old setup. Ralph's intention when he gave the arena was to allow UND to run with the big dogs.

Well, the Big Ten is essentially doing the same thing, running with the big dogs. I thought the main problem with the whole BTHC thing is the little guys are left in the dust...so why are we complaining about the B10 teams doing it and then proclaiming to do the same in the end?

Also, there's not a snowball's chance in hell that Marquette would ever add hockey. Milwaukee is far from a hockey town and Marquette doesn't even have a football team. Who would add hockey before football in today's day-and-age?

[HeidiSioux62]

I'm really not liking the idea of a BTHC and what it could mean for the rest of college hockey. I understand the feeling of needing to "run with the big dogs" and ditching the traditional wcha, but it's really kind of bothering me. At one point (not long ago) we were a lowly DII school and it really hasn't been that long since we weren't playing in the 11,700 seat REA aka The Palace On The Prairie. The WCHA is traditionally strong and other than Tech or Anchorage, every team has their time in the top half of the league and currently UMTC has been sitting in the bottom half. The WCHA almost always has at least 4 teams in the national tournament, often 5 and sometimes even six - this equates to having 1/2 the league in the national tournament most years. Since UMTC hasn't made the tourney in the last two years and not counting Wisco, UND & DU there have been at least 2 "lowly" DII schools in the national tourney out of our conference. Then there's Bemidji, the little DIII school that has kicked around some of the big boys, big time in the last couple of years. Our entire league is very competative - even Tech and Alaska will give the top boys a run - seems to me Alaska beat us last year and I never feel safe with Tech. We can go off and create our own league with Notre Dame, Miami, DU and CC but what happens to the rest of the WCHA - part of what made our league so good is that the smaller schools upped their game to get recruits. Can the smallers schools keep hockey without the "names"? They bring in a lot of money playing UND, UMTC, WISCO & DU - what happens to them when that revenue stream dries up. It was just last year that Bemidji was on the brink and if they didn't get into the WCHA they were going to have to drop hockey. UND will be just fine - we have enough tratition, history, recruiting success (and money) that if we choose to go to a new league we'll be OK - what about the smaller schools (and not just WCHA - CCHA as well without Mich or MSU) ?

~end rant~

[Goon]

Then there's Bemidji, the little DIII school that has kicked around some of the big boys, big time in the last couple of years.

Rant was awesome but the Beavers have been Division II since the early 1990's when the NSIC went from NAIA to Division II.

[brianvf]

Looks like it's official.

Now we just have to hope that they don't screw up the rest of college hockey.

[tnt]

I like how a certain blog thinks that WCHA schools are squirming over their futures. I know for one that Minnesota would be losing just as much if not more out of the equation. Last I looked it is Minnesota fans that have been jumping off the ship for the past few years, and they have no credibility with the NHL. If the league did form, the gophers would probably have to forego having home ice and leave the friendly, or lately unfriendly confines of Mariucci arena more often. Probably have to put up with a rotating Conference tournament, and possibly fewer regionals. The Ralph has sold out most games over the past 10 years, and judging by all the empty seats in Mariucci, I doubt they will draw better against most of the Big Ten schools than they would from long-standing rivals. The Sioux lose two of their biggest rivals, but will most likely play them anyway. I think most fans from all teams know that it isn't going to benefit any WCHA team, and that includes Minnesota and Wisconsin.

[mksioux]

I thought that someone important was hired to help oversee or promote college hockey. But maybe I'm thinking of a different body of hockey.

You are thinking of Paul Kelly, the executive director of College Hockey, Inc., which is an informational and marketing arm of college hockey. He has no say over conference allignment or anything substantive.

[mksioux]

BTHC pretty much inevitable according to Andy Baggot.

http://host.madison.com/sports/college/hockey/article_a5593130-c1f7-11df-8160-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=story

It seems that a Big Ten men

[Sodbuster]

BTHC pretty much inevitable according to Andy Baggot.

http://host.madison.com/sports/college/hockey/article_a5593130-c1f7-11df-8160-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=story

The Big Ten has become kind of a ho-hum conference (as far as football anyway). Now it will be in hockey, too.

[Let'sGoHawks!]

The Big Ten has become kind of a ho-hum conference (as far as football anyway). Now it will be in hockey, too.

Yeah, those teams don't exactly strike too much fear into me, except maybe UW. Penn State will be a doormat for years, but could eventually have a good program.

[tho0505]

Here's an article from ESPN, nice to see them covering college hockey a bit...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5583790

[tnt]

Yeah, those teams don't exactly strike too much fear into me, except maybe UW. Penn State will be a doormat for years, but could eventually have a good program.

Maybe the South Dakota Coyotes could take up hockey and join the Big Ten?

[mikejm]

Adding another team to D-I hockey is huge, regardless of what it does to existing conference memberships. I hope Penn State's move gives impetus to other successful club programs to make the step. I would really like to see 65-70 teams, but I doubt I'll see that in my lifetime.

[Goon]

Maybe the South Dakota Coyotes could take up hockey and join the Big Ten?

Maybe the Great West can Add Minnesota where they could be competative.

[darell1976]

Instead of a BTHC why not Penn St join the CCHA and have Alaska Fairbanks or Alaska whatever they call themselves join the WCHA and be rivals with UAA.

[Stromer]

Instead of a BTHC why not Penn St join the CCHA and have Alaska Fairbanks or Alaska whatever they call themselves join the WCHA and be rivals with UAA.

Um there already is a spot for them in the CCHA. Why would UAF go to the WCHA and make 13 teams? That wouldn't solve the issue of Minnesota and UW still playing in the WCHA.