SOME GOOD NEWS ?

[rochsioux]

Standing. Rock. Does. NOT. Deserve. Any. More. Time. Than. They. Have. Already. Wasted.

They had all the time they needed and they chose to piss it down their leg.

The SL group lawsuit is the last obstacle in the SBoHE's way of putting the SR out of their misery. The ruling can't come fast enough.

Exactly how has SR had enough time ? The current council took office in Oct so they have had just over 4 months to attempt to address this issue which is not, and should not be their highest priority.

The previous chairman was against the nickname and in no way would allow a vote to be taken. Under RHHT's watch there was no chance of getting approval. To me the jury is still out with Murphy. He was against the nickname years ago but appeared to have changed or softened his stance on that to the point of at least not being opposed to a tribal vote. What will come of this I don't know but 4 months is not a lot of time.

If this is allowed to play itself out until 11/30 I believe there is a good chance that the nickname can be kept. I know there is a 0 % chance of keeping it if the State Board doesn't give SR the time needed.

Even if Murphy is against the name I believe he will let a vote take place if the tribal members want to keep it. If he is against the name, part of the strategy may be to see who blinks first. No one wants to take the blame so if he can get the state board to terminate it early then SR can always say they didn't get enough time and no one will blame them. However, if progress is made (petition) and the state board backs off then Murphy will get the blame if the name goes and I suspect he doesn't want that to happen.

[rochsioux]

You may not believe it, but it is the harsh reality.

If UND decides to wait until November, there's at least a 50-50 chance that the Summit will move on without them and add Chicago State and Utah Valley.

That will leave UND without any opportunity to join an auto-bid league in the next 5-10 years, which will be far more financially devistating to the athletic department than changing the nickname "early". I doubt highly that any significant fall-out will occur from retiring the nickname, even in April after the ND Supreme Court has ruled against the SL group.

UND doesn't want any donations from such fair weather "fans" who would deny support over a nickname, anyway.

I'm sure you don't think there will be any significant fallout from retiring the nickname early. You would be wrong.

I think you need to change your name to "ChickenLittle". You wouldn't be opposed to a name change would you ?

It seems pretty obvious that the Summit wants UND. If UND is the best fit (and I believe they are) then Douple would be an idiot to pass over UND to take another team when this issue will be resolved prior to YE. Based on what Douple has said about the nickname issue he may indeed be an idiot but I am betting that he will do what is right for the league in the longterm and that is to add UND.

[MplsBison]

Exactly how has SR had enough time ? The current council took office in Oct so they have had just over 4 months to attempt to address this issue which is not, and should not be their highest priority.

The previous chairman was against the nickname and in no way would allow a vote to be taken. Under RHHT's watch there was no chance of getting approval. To me the jury is still out with Murphy. He was against the nickname years ago but appeared to have changed or softened his stance on that to the point of at least not being opposed to a tribal vote. What will come of this I don't know but 4 months is not a lot of time.

If this is allowed to play itself out until 11/30 I believe there is a good chance that the nickname can be kept. I know there is a 0 % chance of keeping it if the State Board doesn't give SR the time needed.

Even if Murphy is against the name I believe he will let a vote take place if the tribal members want to keep it. If he is against the name, part of the strategy may be to see who blinks first. No one wants to take the blame so if he can get the state board to terminate it early then SR can always say they didn't get enough time and no one will blame them. However, if progress is made (petition) and the state board backs off then Murphy will get the blame if the name goes and I suspect he doesn't want that to happen.

The SR has had since the settlement to start negotiating with UND on a long term deal to let the school use the nickname for whatever price they could agree upon.

That's more than enough time.

[choyt3]

The SR has had since the settlement to start negotiating with UND on a long term deal to let the school use the nickname for whatever price they could agree upon.

That's more than enough time.

You keep lobbing these softballs up there for people to knock out of the park. What exactly is your point? You've been given ample reasons for the delay from the Standing Rock reservation. It's called "reading comprehension". Practice it.

[Goon]

You keep lobbing these softballs up there for people to knock out of the park. What exactly is your point? You've been given ample reasons for the delay from the Standing Rock reservation. It's called "reading comprehension". Practice it.

He doesn't have a point he is zippy/skippy troll that has nothing to do but get a rise out of people that is why he got kicked off of Belligerentville.

[Fetch]

it's a new ball game since the leader change at SR - have you even been following this ?

[darell1976]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/arti...517/group/home/

[MplsBison]

it's a new ball game since the leader change at SR - have you even been following this ?

Why does that mean the SR deserves to be given until Nov? I don't really care if they didn't have their s**t together before the new leadership came to power, that's not UND student athletes' fault!

[MplsBison]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/arti...517/group/home/

Can't wait for the ND Supreme Court to throw out this lawsuit. The ruling can't come fast enough.

Meanwhile, the SR still will not have even scheduled a vote on the issue.

[HazenSioux27]

I've always been had a question about the changing of the nickname. We did get permission by the Spirit Lake Band, so why not just change the name to Spirit Lake Band of Fighting Sioux?? Everyone would still know us as the Fighting Sioux for short, and Standing Rock might change it's stance once the Spirit Lake Band starts getting all the money from all sioux merchandise that is sold. then maybe standing rock will want some of that money again too.

[star2city]

I've always been had a question about the changing of the nickname. We did get permission by the Spirit Lake Band, so why not just change the name to Spirit Lake Band of Fighting Sioux?? Everyone would still know us as the Fighting Sioux for short, and Standing Rock might change it's stance once the Spirit Lake Band starts getting all the money from all sioux merchandise that is sold. then maybe standing rock will want some of that money again too.

Good question. The legal agreement with the NCAA prevents that: either both tribes agree or any Indian nickname is gone. Other Indian nicknames are also forbidden, UND couldn't become the Ojibwe if Turtle Mountain approved.

[siouxforeverbaby]

I've always been had a question about the changing of the nickname. We did get permission by the Spirit Lake Band, so why not just change the name to Spirit Lake Band of Fighting Sioux?? Everyone would still know us as the Fighting Sioux for short, and Standing Rock might change it's stance once the Spirit Lake Band starts getting all the money from all sioux merchandise that is sold. then maybe standing rock will want some of that money again too.

like star2city said..good question, but not really possible due to the terms of the settlement..and neither tribe gets money for the nickname right now...so that would change it too.

[JLP157]

Can't wait for the ND Supreme Court to throw out this lawsuit. The ruling can't come fast enough.

Meanwhile, the SR still will not have even scheduled a vote on the issue.

Maybe Standing Rock hasn't scheduled a vote yet because they are glued to their televisions, undoubtedly mesmerized by watching the Bison Basketball "flood fight promo" over and over and over, thanks to the magic of Tivo....

[Blackheart]

Why does that mean the SR deserves to be given until Nov? I don't really care if they didn't have their s**t together before the new leadership came to power, that's not UND student athletes' fault!

typical response...idiot...

[yababy8]

like star2city said..good question, but not really possible due to the terms of the settlement..and neither tribe gets money for the nickname right now...so that would change it too.

Here is a different angle to consider

Maybe, what needs to happen now is that the NCAA needs to man-up and come forward and REEVALUATE the situation with The Sioux name.

The "settlement" only needs to be adhered to if no "other" mutually agreeable resolution is achieved. ie, the settlement can be dismissed if the NCAA would see fit to allow the name based on the status quo(see below).

The reason is quite clear:

STATUS QUO cositderation one

One tribe approves by landslide vote + Other tribe has no interest in matter to take it to a vote (ie obstain) = NO rational reason to change the name.

or

STATUS QUO cositderation two

One tribe approves by landslide vote + Other tribe is on the record as giving a traditional blessing to the name which, according to tribal culture, cannot be undone (hey NCAA, please respect other cultures and diversity)= NO rational reason to change the name.

Note: the above equation does not include in it how stongly the supporters of the schools teams fell about the name but this should be considered as well.

STATUS QUO cositderation Three

Nelsen Mandela (see Invictus) understood the detrminent in forcing a name change of a team with passionate fans with a tradition and history and excellence. He new that hate was the true motivation for such action and to act out of hate only seeks to breed more hate.

NCAA thinks about this and realizes that they have something to learn from a great leader and conclude that it is not a good idea to change the name

If Mandela understood this why can't the NCAA? Maybe they are racists and don't value the views of an man of color? I don't know because I NEVER hear them speak??

What does the NCAA think of all of this that has been transpiring?? Who are THEY anyway?

What are their names?? Why doesn't someone from the Herald interview them??

I want to know how they feel about what is happening here? Such things that effect me and you so much.

[darell1976]

Here is a different angle to consider

Maybe, what needs to happen now is that the NCAA needs to man-up and come forward and REEVALUATE the situation with The Sioux name.

The "settlement" only needs to be adhered to if no "other" mutually agreeable resolution is achieved. ie, the settlement can be dismissed if the NCAA would see fit to allow the name based on the status quo(see below).

The reason is quite clear:

STATUS QUO cositderation one

One tribe approves by landslide vote + Other tribe has no interest in matter to take it to a vote (ie obstain) = NO rational reason to change the name.

or

STATUS QUO cositderation two

One tribe approves by landslide vote + Other tribe is on the record as giving a traditional blessing to the name which, according to tribal culture, cannot be undone (hey NCAA, please respect other cultures and diversity)= NO rational reason to change the name.

Note: the above equation does not include in it how stongly the supporters of the schools teams fell about the name but this should be considered as well.

STATUS QUO cositderation Three

Nelsen Mandela (see Invictus) understood the detrminent in forcing a name change of a team with passionate fans with a tradition and history and excellence. He new that hate was the true motivation for such action and to act out of hate only seeks to breed more hate.

NCAA thinks about this and realizes that they have something to learn from a great leader and conclude that it is not a good idea to change the name

If Mandela understood this why can't the NCAA? Maybe they are racists and don't value the views of an man of color? I don't know because I NEVER hear them speak??

What does the NCAA think of all of this that has been transpiring?? Who are THEY anyway?

What are their names?? Why doesn't someone from the Herald interview them??

I want to know how they feel about what is happening here? Such things that effect me and you so much.

The NCAA doesn't care, they settled thats that. Attny Gen. Wayne Stenjeum is the one that f-cked up the settlement. He should have fought harder and should have agreed to one tribe's name or perhaps looking to change it to another tribe in the state, but he wanted to end it as soon as possible. He is a joke and the worst attorney ever. The NCAA won't change the settlement so its either both tribes or bust.

[Fetch]

I agree with that

[darell1976]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/269480/

Any referendum would likely not occur until the next tribal election. The primary is in July, and the general election is in September.

Too close to November 30th. And with Faison wanting the Summit League i don't know if the board will wait that long.

[MplsBison]

Tu-Uyen Tran more or less just wrote an article (appearing today in the Forum: http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/269480/) that outlines the end of the nickname:

UND athletic director Brian Faison earlier told the board that, for UND to apply to join the Summit League athletic conference and get in the schedule for the 2011-12 season, it would have to apply by about this time.

So there it is, from the horse's mouth: it has to be now or very soon. UND can not afford to wait until November!

Archie Fool Bear, a nickname supporter from Standing Rock, said he and other supporters gathered 450 signatures this week to convince the Tribal Council to put the issue on the ballot.

The group had hoped to have 600 to bring to Tribal Chairman Charles Murphy, but needs to do more work between now and the next council meeting in March, Fool Bear said.

This is to what you were pinning your hopes?! You just assumed that the SR tribe was going to get the signatures it need to move this along? I guess we know what happens when you assume...

Any referendum would likely not occur until the next tribal election. The primary is in July, and the general election is in September.

And as I predicted, SR won't even have a vote scheduled by the time the ND Supreme Court rules against the SL group.

Fool Bear said he doesn’t know if he’ll make it to the board meeting and doesn’t know if Tom Iron, the other main nickname supporter from Standing Rock, would either.

Yeah..you can just feel the support for the nickname radiating off the SR tribe. The top nickname supports don't even show up to the board meeting.

On the other side, nickname opponents from Spirit Lake are mobilizing to get a new referendum to undo the tribe’s support. Some of them will be at the meeting today.

Erich Longie said he’s drafting a petition to put the nickname back on the ballot as soon as possible. He estimated he’ll need 250 signatures to force the council to do that.

One stumbling block is there aren’t any tribal elections scheduled this year that he knows of, so if he wants a vote before November, it’ll have to be a special election.

Though that might mean spending money on ballots and election judges for just a single issue, he said, “It’s irrelevant. There’s a goal we want to accomplish. … We gotta do what we gotta do.”

And there goes your other trump card. The SL vote is now in jeopardy of being challenged and possibly overturned.

Guys...this just proves that as long as the nickname is still around, this will never end!

And you thought the Summit was being unreasonable in demanding a resolution first!

Board members voted 5-3 at their last monthly meeting to wait another month for the court, not knowing then the hearing date would be later. The discussion then leaned toward retiring the nickname this month even if the court had not heard the case.

Bahr said there’s a possibility the court would dismiss the appeal if the board did so because it would be a moot point.

And now we see that the ND Supreme Court may well just dismiss the case if the SBoHE retires the nickname today.

Unbelievable.

Any reasonable person who reads that knows the cold hard fact of this situation: the nickname is dead. No, that's not correct. It's deader than dead. What's an appropriate word? Annihilated? Obliterated? I hate to sound like I'm rubbing it in, or something, but there is a 0% chance that the nickname is going to survive.

The only possible outcome of waiting until Nov is going to be UND missing its chance to join the Summit and setting the athletic department back by 5-10 years.

Guys...come on.

[dmksioux]

It looks as though it's going to continue to drag on for at least another month or so...

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/151589/

Board member Grant Shaft told the board today that, upon further questioning of Faison, he understands that there are two opportunities for UND to apply to join the league, once early in March when league members meet by telephone and once in June when they meet in person. The June meeting is the more critical one, Shaft said, though Faison still maintained that the sooner the nickname is dealt with the better.

[Ray77]

Motion to retire Fighting Sioux nickname fails

[darell1976]

Motion to retire Fighting Sioux nickname fails

Board member Michael Haugen of Fargo made a motion to direct UND President Bob Kelley to begin retiring the nickname.

Typical Bison fan.

The motion failed after no one seconded the motion.

People with common sense.

[MplsBison]

Board member Michael Haugen of Fargo made a motion to direct UND President Bob Kelley to begin retiring the nickname.

Typical Bison fan.

The motion failed after no one seconded the motion.

People with common sense.

Yep, since it's obvious that the nickname has a snowball's chance in hell to survive.

[Bison Dan]

Board member Michael Haugen of Fargo made a motion to direct UND President Bob Kelley to begin retiring the nickname.

Typical Bison fan.

The motion failed after no one seconded the motion.

People with common sense.

You must have missed the part where both Faison and Kelly requested the board drop the name..........

[darell1976]

You must have missed the part where both Faison and Kelly requested the board drop the name..........

Board member Grant Shaft told the board today that, upon further questioning of Faison, he understands that there are two opportunities for UND to apply to join the league, once early in March when league members meet by telephone and once in June when they meet in person. The June meeting is the more critical one, Shaft said, though Faison still maintained that the sooner the nickname is dealt with the better.

Obviously Faison didn't tell the board this back in October. Why did he hide this??