siouxforeverbaby Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 The Flagship school UND IS the Flagship school. When North Dakota was set-up, Grand Forks got the STATE university and Fargo got the agricultural school, Bismarck got the criminals, and Jamestown got the loonies. sorry but that is not LOL at all it is the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 YOU SELL IT!!!! Period. That's what the marketing people are paid to do. It didn't matter that Valpo sucked in football because they sold it. But, I think it is too early to start the big push for football. If we are still wondering what the ad campaign will look like in August, there will be a big reason to gripe. The VALPO game had huge numbers of 20-set tickets for 100 bucks ($5/seat). It did create a "media" wave in the FM area because the Forum, WDAY et. al. fully bought into the DI Valpo hype. (Agree that Valpo would struggle with many of the DIII UW's - Lacrosse, Eau Claire, etc). NDSU fans were so hungry to be anywhere associated with DI, they bought into it. Even they are more discerning now, and Sioux fans aren't going to get all lathered up for games just because they are labeled DI. Winning was the main driver behind their later attendance increase, not marketing. Sioux fans will flock to follow a winner, marketing or not. As examples, if the Sioux women's hockey team or it's DII volleyball team had been winners, UND would have lead the nation in attendance in those sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlsiouxfan Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 In answer to the initial question. No, UND isn't doing anything. Schedule doesn't matter, you sell the program. The AC did a great job of marketing for their atheltics and fans bought into the experience no matter who they played. They then used the same marketing firm to sell the school. It has worked and they have good crowds at FB no matter who they play and they are getting kids to go to school there no matter what the major is. Two things that I would not agree with. One, although I am a UND hockey fan, UND's hockey should have nothing to do with whether or not marketing of all sports wouldn't be successful. The AC marketing would have done well and been successful even if they did have D1 hockey. The other is whether UND and NDSU are really D1 in FB. D1AA or BCS is not big time FB. They should both be going one step higher so they are both really D1. The Bison guy is right in that we are behind by not moving when they did, but we were both late. We both should have moved back in the 1970's when they started D1AA. UND needs leadership and needs to get off the schnide (whatever that is). The failure of UND to market atheltics is a reflection on the leadership in athletics, the presidents office and the alumni office. The failure to market the University is a reflection of the leadership in the president's office and the alumni office. When all is said and done, it is very clear to me more is said than done. If anything this should be the black mark that defines Kupchella's tenure at UND. The man has essentially been retired for the last 2-3 years and we were stupid enough to pay him for each of those. The majority of his hires have been poor and have resulted in a number of poor leaders and people who aren't qualified for their position finding a home at UND. Any growth during his tenure was in spite of his leadership not because of it. Hopefully Kelly can clean house and get this university back on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sIoUxPeRsTiTiOuS Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Regardless of the ability of their football team, Valpo is a DI school while UWLax is a DIII school. UW-Lacrosse? Isn't that the same DIII school that beat ndsu's "rival" 17-3 in Brookings by two touchdowns in 2006? Should be a tough game for UND then, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FargoBison Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 UND IS the Flagship school. When North Dakota was set-up, Grand Forks got the STATE university and Fargo got the agricultural school, Bismarck got the criminals, and Jamestown got the loonies. sorry but that is not LOL at all it is the truth. NDSU and UND are actually both state flagships, kind of like Michigan and Michigan State. According to Robert Berdahl, former University of California, Berkeley chancellor... "In most cases, these institutions were the first public universities to be established in their states. Many of what we now call the flagship campuses were established in the extraordinary period of university building that took place in the United States in the roughly three decades from the mid-1850s to the mid-1880s. Many came into being after the Morrill Act of 1862 provided the federal grants of land to the states to establish public universities. Some states built two institutions, a land-grant college focused on agriculture and the "mechanical arts" as well as general education, and another more directed at classical education and the other professions. http://cio.chance.berkeley.edu/chancellor/sp/flagship.htm http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/200...on-survey_x.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WYOBISONMAN Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 If Dave K and his fellow Sioux fans have to retreat to that silly "Flagship" argument....then you guys have lost the battle already. You ought to be debating how to upgrade marketing for the Sioux......and folks, it is an uphill battle for you. You have 1 DI school at home (and it is a cupcake), the rest of your home games are nothing horribly exciting. (By the way.....NDSU had 4 DI games at home in 2004). UND is coming off of one of the least visionary leadership periods in North Dakota history with the duo of Kuppy and RT. So, If I were a professional pizza man that was a UND fan, I would be worried about ticket sales and promotion......not a silly flagship argument....... UND also ought to be buying some time on FSN and get some games on the TV regionally......SIU would be a great one to do that with...... Oh......and I know......you got hockey...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn-O Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 If anything this should be the black mark that defines Kupchella's tenure at UND. The man has essentially been retired for the last 2-3 years and we were stupid enough to pay him for each of those. The majority of his hires have been poor and have resulted in a number of poor leaders and people who aren't qualified for their position finding a home at UND. Any growth during his tenure was in spite of his leadership not because of it. Hopefully Kelly can clean house and get this university back on track. Amen to that. Sometimes it felt lonely around here. Sounds like Kelley has a better understanding of how athletics contributes to the grand scheme of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WYOBISONMAN Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Amen to that. Sometimes it felt lonely around here. Sounds like Kelley has a better understanding of how athletics contributes to the grand scheme of things. Kelley seems like a top notch guy...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SooToo Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Sioux fans will flock to follow a winner, marketing or not. As examples, if the Sioux women's hockey team or it's DII volleyball team had been winners, UND would have lead the nation in attendance in those sports. Your missing the point. The object during this transition should be to grow the base of Sioux fans, not just to excite the current supporters; Sioux football has remained "a winner" in recent years, competing for championships with established rivals, going what ? 20-5 the last two seasons? The result: Regular-season attendance was up about 5 percent last year. Bison football has done OK, too. Their record the last 2 years was 20-2. The result: Attendance has risen roughly 50% over the last 4-5 years. If you think that increase is all about "winning," give 'em a call down at the AC because they seem bent on wasting a ton of money on advertising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bincitysioux Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Ironically as I'm reading through this thread, I just heard a commercial for NDSU football tickets on KNOX. But, of course, all we'll get is one televised home game. http://forum.siouxsports.com/index.php?s=&...st&p=345365 That is indeed sad. And apparently no basketball games. Not even the USD basketball games? The FSSN is an asset that is so under-utilized. People can joke all they want about the FSSN (being on the home shopping channel in Fargo, for example) but it reaches over 300,000 homes in ND, SD, and MN on several cable companies. A two or three hour game broadcast of any sport is a great advertising tool for the entire university. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 The AC did a great job of marketing for their atheltics and fans bought into the experience no matter who they played. They then used the same marketing firm to sell the school. It has worked and they have good crowds at FB no matter who they play and they are getting kids to go to school there no matter what the major is. Which is amazing considering NDSU only offers degrees in agriculture and plant science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 That is indeed sad. And apparently no basketball games. Not even the USD basketball games? The FSSN is an asset that is so under-utilized. People can joke all they want about the FSSN (being on the home shopping channel in Fargo, for example) but it reaches over 300,000 homes in ND, SD, and MN on several cable companies. A two or three hour game broadcast of any sport is a great advertising tool for the entire university. I couldn't agree more. FSSN should be seen primarily as a marketing tool for the university. More games, both home and away, should be televised even if some of them will lose money. UND should be in control of the broadcasting decisions and should fund the shortfall as a marketing expense. FSSN should be about exposure to Fighting Sioux athletics and the entire university. It should be about marketing the product. It should be about attracting new interest in the product and strengthening existing interest. It should be about getting people invested in Fighting Sioux athletics. To get people invested these days, people have to see the product. Once people are invested, they will go to more games, they will get involved, they Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEH Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I couldn't agree more. FSSN should be seen primarily as a marketing tool for the university. More games, both home and away, should be televised even if some of them will lose money. UND should be in control of the broadcasting decisions and should fund the shortfall as a marketing expense. FSSN should be about exposure to Fighting Sioux athletics and the entire university. It should be about marketing the product. It should be about attracting new interest in the product and strengthening existing interest. It should be about getting people invested in Fighting Sioux athletics. To get people invested these days, people have to see the product. Once people are invested, they will go to more games, they will get involved, they Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Your missing the point. The object during this transition should be to grow the base of Sioux fans, not just to excite the current supporters; Sioux football has remained "a winner" in recent years, competing for championships with established rivals, going what ? 20-5 the last two seasons? The result: Regular-season attendance was up about 5 percent last year. Bison football has done OK, too. Their record the last 2 years was 20-2. The result: Attendance has risen roughly 50% over the last 4-5 years. If you think that increase is all about "winning," give 'em a call down at the AC because they seem bent on wasting a ton of money on advertising. So 20-2 is just O.K.? Their win and near-win over the sorry Gophs gave them more regional publicity than they could possibly buy. My point is economics. At the same stage in the transition, NDSU had 7000 seats sitting empty. UND has about 2000 empty seats. NDSU potential gain from sellouts: $420,000 (6 games x 7000 x $10 / net per ticket) UND potential gains from sellouts: $140,000 (5 games x 2000 x $14 / net per ticket) Obviously, advertising has a much larger payback for NDSU. In the transition to DI, UND has to utilize its strengths: it has 50% more alumni than NDSU, they are on average wealthier, more likely to be out-of-state, and they give more. Out-state alums should be a major focus of UND's DI funding, which regional advertising doesn't target whatsoever. Where NDSU's non-athletic advertising has paid off IMHO is for their overall image. "NDSU Impact" signs seemed to be everywhere last week when I was in the RRV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iramurphy Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Kelley seems like a top notch guy...... I would agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 So 20-2 is just O.K.? Their win and near-win over the sorry Gophs gave them more regional publicity than they could possibly buy. My point is economics. At the same stage in the transition, NDSU had 7000 seats sitting empty. UND has about 2000 empty seats. NDSU potential gain from sellouts: $420,000 (6 games x 7000 x $10 / net per ticket) UND potential gains from sellouts: $140,000 (5 games x 2000 x $14 / net per ticket) Obviously, advertising has a much larger payback for NDSU. In the transition to DI, UND has to utilize its strengths: it has 50% more alumni than NDSU, they are on average wealthier, more likely to be out-of-state, and they give more. Out-state alums should be a major focus of UND's DI funding, which regional advertising doesn't target whatsoever. Where NDSU's non-athletic advertising has paid off IMHO is for their overall image. "NDSU Impact" signs seemed to be everywhere last week when I was in the RRV. I would say it also helped to cement the perception in the minds of many ND residents that NDSU is in fact the flagship public university of the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 So who else has noticed the new "splash page" at FightingSioux.com? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 So who else has noticed the new "splash page" at FightingSioux.com? For those of us in GF, this has been on the new digital billboard at Washington & DeMers since yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeauxSioux Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 For those of us in GF, this has been on the new digital billboard at Washington & DeMers since yesterday. I like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey23 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I would say it also helped to cement the perception in the minds of many ND residents that NDSU is in fact the flagship public university of the state. If by many you mean less than the majority, then yeah, I think you got it pegged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WYOBISONMAN Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 My own personal rooting interest aside... UND is the flagship public university, NDSU is the agricultural college. What one do you go to to learn how to deliver pizzas?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxforeverbaby Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 What one do you go to to learn how to deliver pizzas?? neither, i would go to pizza delivering school for that. To be perfectly honest, BOTH schools have great programs in their respective schools and both have things that they do better than the other....oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 I would say it also helped to cement the perception in the minds of many ND residents that NDSU is in fact the flagship public university of the state. I question, other than geographically, if NDSU is even the flagship university in the Fargo metro area? I see more people around town with UND "stuff" on their cloths, cars and homes than NDSU "stuff". And to think NDSU is recognized outside ND as the premier university is hilarious. Been to major metro cities in the US from east to west coast and say I'm from ND and I have never heard someone say "Oh yeah ND State U is there." When you have the top two academic programs in the med and law schools plus aviation at UND, to say NDSU is a better academic school is well...again hilarious. NDSU, the flagship public U in the state...not from what I've seen and heard in this state or outside of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WYOBISONMAN Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 To be perfectly honest, BOTH schools have great programs in their respective schools and both have things that they do better than the other....oh well. AGREED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star2city Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 To be perfectly honest, BOTH schools have great programs in their respective schools and both have things that they do better than the other....oh well.Agree: 'SU does a whole lot better job of having their graduates keep chips on their shoulders. (Just don't check the flavor!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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