Negotiated Settlement?

[Sioux-cia]

On a totally different point: political corruption in CHICAGO?? Pshaw. Pure as the driven snow.

I think I was about 7 yrs old and we were on our way to the Brookfield Zoo when my dad was pulled over on Lake Shore Dr. The police officer walked up to the car, my dad handed over his drivers license and some money. The police officer handed the license back and we continued on our way. I don't remember if they said a word to each other! It was 'summertime and the living was easy'.

[Sioux-cia]

And for those of you out there that think the name should be retained even if the tribes don't agree, I really don't have the slightest clue what the basis is for your argument.

No where is it written that we have the RIGHT to not be offended.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I think I was about 7 yrs old and we were on our way to the Brookfield Zoo when my dad was pulled over on Lake Shore Dr. The police officer walked up to the car, my dad handed over his drivers license and some money. The police officer handed the license back and we continued on our way. I don't remember if they said a word to each other! It was 'summertime and the living was easy'.

My dad drove for a living. One of the first stories I remember was when he pulled out the cash and handed it to the cop above the level of the windows: "no no!!! Just put it down on the seat where nobody can see!!"

All you have to do is read the daily paper. Yesterday or today the story was about a politically connected person (incidentally, someone who was a convicted felon-not that there's necessarily a connection) who bought a small, irregularly shaped piece of land with pollution problems for $50k: lo and behold, it was soon found that this piece of land was "needed" for a park and ultimately the new owner sold it to the city.

His sale price was $1.2mm.

[HaksHomey]

My preliminary thoughts...

First of all, I wear the logo and nickname proudly, but I also take a realistic approach to this issue. Does anyone honestly see this issue going away if the university were to win the case? I think that this is highly unlikely. We as Fighting Sioux fans cannot easily perceive what it is like for others who view our name negatively because of our bias and conception to a honor and tradition aspect. I know the NCAA governing morality is absolute bullsh*t, but this issue will not go away even if the NCAA does. Being a graduate of the University of North Dakota, I wear the logo with tremendous pride, but if this settlement goes through and the Sioux tribe is polled (or however it would be determined) finding that they sincerely disapprove, then I believe it is time to part ways with name and logo. In some sense, the Division 1 transition is as good as time as any to close a proud legacy of the university, and start anew. I hope that when the time comes (and it will--if not now eventually) when the name is dropped that we can do it with as much class and dignity as we the fans, students, alumni, and athletes have now in carrying the Fighting Sioux tradition. I hope it is done on the University's terms, not through political activism and coercion.

That is why I see this settlement as potentially a good thing. If the Sioux tribe approves then we continue. If not, well the three year and D1 transitions may be the best time to respectfully drop the name for the reasons listed in the article on SiouxSports. A UND team by any other name will still be better than a gopher. God Bless the Fighting Sioux.

[sprig]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...ection=homepage

[Sioux-cia]

<a href="http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...ection=homepage" target="_blank">http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...ection=homepage</a>

It seems pretty clear to me that there will be no agreement with any tribe. This settlement may appear to give UND an opportunity to keep the name and logo but in essence all it does is give us three years to comply with the NC$$'s illegal policy. The NC$$ wins.

Unacceptable.

[BigGame]

What does having support of the tribes really mean anyway?

Sure we could get the support today, like UND has had in the past but that doesn't mean they will not go back on the agreement later. If that happens we are in the same boat anyway and back to the struggle to keep the name. I really don't like leaving this decision in the hands of people change their views on the nickname on a whim or whenever they think they want or need something else.

I really think people should speak with their pocket books on this issue and if the tribes continue to behave this way, the casino's they own should suffer a boycott from anyone who disagree's with what they are doing. Oh, that makes me a hateful racist doesn't it. At least according to most of the 20 or so who have been protesting the nickname and logo.

[Oxbow6]

The issue that I struggle with, and have since this nickname issue came up, is the fact the UND has one of the largest Indian colleges on it's campus in the nation and those who work and are educated in that college are the one's who are barking the loudest--i.e. Leigh Jeanotte and the rest of the campus PC tools!

As many others on this board, I support financially both UND athletics and the general educational endowment. Leigh Jeanotte and other Indian college employees and students speaks of a "hostile and abusive" nickmane and campus enviroment, but still are willing to except, public and PRIVATE, dollars in the form of salary and scholarships from that same "hostile and abusive" university and it's financial supporters. Talk about hypocritical and biting the hand that feeds you.

If the tribes, along with the students and staff of the Indian college at UND, continue to oppose the nickname and it is dropped in 3 years, I know I will struggle to continue to support the educational endowment as some of my money (in taxes as well), even though it probably is a small percentage, is going to the salaries and and scholarships of those in the Indian college.

This could be a long-term win-win situation with the logo/nickname, Sioux heritage and Indian college on campus, but PC always seems to trump common sense in today's society. If the Sioux tribe fails to support the nickname in 3 years, so be it. The fact remains that Indian tribe's in this state do, and will continue to, have bigger societial issues to deal with down the road. But past history tells us that those issues probably won't be dealt with with same vigor and zeal.

[JacksonW]

What does having support of the tribes really mean anyway?

Sure we could get the support today, like UND has had in the past but that doesn't mean they will not go back on the agreement later. If that happens we are in the same boat anyway and back to the struggle to keep the name. I really don't like leaving this decision in the hands of people change their views on the nickname on a whim or whenever they think they want or need something else.

I really think people should speak with their pocket books on this issue and if the tribes continue to behave this way, the casino's they own should suffer a boycott from anyone who disagree's with what they are doing. Oh, that makes me a hateful racist doesn't it. At least according to most of the 20 or so who have been protesting the nickname and logo.

It doen't make you look racist at all, but it sounds alot like my teenagers point of view when they don't like a decision we make.

Casinos exist because most people enjoy gambling, not support or oppose the owners views. Should UND fans never go to Mystic Lake casino because they support Minnesota's athletic program?

[SiouxCrioux1]

So when and where are the protests to keep the sioux name today?

[The Sicatoka]

... whatever decisions Spirit Lake and Standing Rock come to are simply self-imposed. They get to live with whatever they choose.

And the best part?

The NCAA jammed them up this way.

[Sioux-per Villain]

Who wants my lower bowl season tickets when they change the name?

Gulp, cough, gag.....Go Gophers!

[dagies]

Does anyone out there remember seeing the Bison defeat the Gophers last weekend? Well, if you do, consider this. The Sioux may never even have the chance to play in such games. Even if the Sioux gain the approval of the tribes, there will be many schools who will not agree to play them because of the nickname.

U of M would play UND because UND would satisfy the NCAA's criteria. That's why they are playing Central Michigan this year.

[dagies]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...ection=homepage

"Her reaction was along the same lines as mine," he said. "It's trying to buy Indians by treating them nicely and giving them alcohol at hockey games that she objected to."

Give me a break. Trying to connect the hospitality shown Native American guests at a hockey game with the poor treatment shown Native Americans early in American history is irresponsible. It's this type of argument that makes me NOT want to give in.

[Oxbow6]

Give the tribal councils a cut of license revenues. Say 25 cents for every t-shirt sold. Make it a long a** contract for say 25 or 30 years so we don't have to revisit this anytime soon. The tribes will stop listening to "outside forces" like the Bellecourt's of the world once the money starts flowing.

Also, find a Sioux artist to draw a new logo to be used going forward (with the understanding that existing logos are kept at REA). This should give those against the nickname one less thing to complain about.

i.e. Florida State and the Seminole tribe.

[choyt3]

Per KFGO (Don Haney), "the State Board of Higher Education has unanimously given approval to proceed with the settlement.

"Stenjhem strongly believed that the lawsuit could be won, but appeals would happen either way and it would be drug out.

"The NCAA has come a long way since this started and has "changed its tune" on UND being a hostile and abusive environment.

"Press conference to follow shortly."

[The Whistler]

Give the tribal councils a cut of license revenues. Say 25 cents for every t-shirt sold. Make it a long a** contract for say 25 or 30 years so we don't have to revisit this anytime soon. The tribes will stop listening to "outside forces" like the Bellecourt's of the world once the money starts flowing.

At first I thought "are you nuts paying for the logo" but on the other hand they do morally own the name, right. I say go ahead and do that but ONLY pay that money to the first tribe that signs on.

Let them flaunt the revenue to the rest of them.

[Sioux-cia]

Per KFGO (Don Haney), "the State Board of Higher Education has unanimously given approval to proceed with the settlement.

"Stenjhem strongly believed that the lawsuit could be won, but appeals would happen either way and it would be drug out.

"The NCAA has come a long way since this started and has "changed its tune" on UND being a hostile and abusive environment.

"Press conference to follow shortly."

Cr@p!!!

I don't care how they spin this, we lost. One million dollars down the toilet!

[darell1976]

Cr@p!!!

I don't care how they spin this, we lost. One million dollars down the toilet!

Exactly. Stenjhem should be out as attorney general. What a quitter. As for support for the name from the tribes i see maybe the Devils Lake Sioux supporting the name more than the Standing Rock. Its over. Time for a new name and NOTHING to do with Indians.

[MafiaMan]

One million dollars for this conversation:

"We do not want to be labled 'hostile and abusive.'"

"OK, you're not 'hostile and abusive.' Now you have three years to change your nickname anyways."

"OK, will do."

[choyt3]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/i...mp;section=News

[jimdahl]

One million dollars for this conversation:

"We do not want to be labled 'hostile and abusive.'"

"OK, you're not 'hostile and abusive.' Now you have three years to change your nickname anyways."

"OK, will do."

That's not quite true. As I was just noting over on blogland, a very important concession that came out of this is being able to play in REA without all the logos removed.

Don't misread me as painting this as a nickname victory for UND, because it's not. But IF UND thought the only realistic outcomes were tribal approval or changing the name, getting a three year respite to resolve that and not having to remove all the logos from REA was probably worth a million.

[westsidesioux]

I think it's time to do this right. We have three years, which for most of our sports is all transistion time and we aren't worrying about a post season anyway. I say we take two to two and half years to reach an agreement with the namesake tribes and if nothing is reached by then, we use the remaining time to find a nickname, logo, and possible mascot that best suits us. That's just my take. There is plenty of time, but we have to do it right. GO SIOUX.

[HockeyMom]

Do we know the EXACT settlement details yet? Or just what was on the table?

[Oxbow6]

At first I thought "are you nuts paying for the logo" but on the other hand they do morally own the name, right. I say go ahead and do that but ONLY pay that money to the first tribe that signs on.

Let them flaunt the revenue to the rest of them.

I agree. Since most decisions/compromises of this nature end in some type of financial restitution, if the Sioux name lives beyond the 3 year negotation period there will be some financial benefit to the tribes involved.