Negotiated Settlement?

[mksioux]

Well that IS what the Herald said but it's not how I read the preliminary injunction.

[GeauxSioux]

So with the NCAA changing their bylaws to allow for a committee to declare edicts from on high, who are they setting their sights on next? Could it be someone like this..

You never know where they may go next.

[Taz Boy]

I think Jim is correct and this is a concession. Obviously, though, as UND goes D-1, hosting NCAA post season events will no longer be a recruiting issue for basketball, as it will never happen. It really isn't that big of a problem for Hockey either, as UND has only once before hosted a regional and would never be able to host the Frozen Four anyway. But if football playoffs for the Subdivision (old D-1AA) are held at home fields, then this ruling is better for UND. All the Alerus has to do is take the "Sioux" out of the end-zones, and whatever happens at the Ralph is of no consequence.

Hey Mr. Admin Booty-Smoocher:

Is your avatar drinking, or does it have some sort of apparatus attached to its nether regions?

taz

[PCM]

Well I think we can make a good case to host the regionals every five years or so. Certainly attendance and atmosphere was excellent even though it was also hostile and abusive.

Tell me about it. I was disgusted when I saw the Pontiac ads and the company's arrowhead logo on the Ralph's big screen.

The trend with the NCAA has been toward hosting the hockey regionals at neutral sites. Therefore, it's not likely that we'll be seeing another regional tournament at REA any time soon.

[Taz Boy]

Tell me about it. I was disgusted when I saw the Pontiac ads and the company's arrowhead logo on the Ralph's big screen.

The trend with the NCAA has been toward hosting the hockey regionals at neutral sites. Therefore, it's not likely that we'll be seeing another regional tournament at REA any time soon.

Didn't you mean "neutered" sites?

[The Whistler]

The trend with the NCAA has been toward hosting the hockey regionals at neutral sites. Therefore, it's not likely that we'll be seeing another regional tournament at REA any time soon.

So we can visit neutral sites like the Xcel Center or the place next to Denver University.

[PCM]

So we can visit neutral sites like the Xcel Center or the place next to Denver University.

That's about it.

[TheGreatSiouxNation]

If UND only starts outreach programs in Spirit Lake and Standing Rock, but does not do the same with the non-Sioux reservations (Turtle Mountain and Fort Berthold) it will make UND look bad and will not help keep the name. Native American programs will need to target all ND tribes for it to appear a buy-out is not being sought.

Also, there was a mention of why Williston State College gets to keep Tetons, 2 year school athletics are not ran by the NCAA...

Williston State's name just proves that the tribal leaders and the powers to be are not really upset with Indian nicknames. If they were the Tribal Leaders and State Board of Higher Education would have to change this name long ago. I was using it as an example of how a few can pick and choose what is offensive. Yet I hear nothing from Ron His Horse is Thunder.

[star2city]

I think Jim is correct and this is a concession. Obviously, though, as UND goes D-1, hosting NCAA post season events will no longer be a recruiting issue for basketball, as it will never happen. It really isn't that big of a problem for Hockey either, as UND has only once before hosted a regional and would never be able to host the Frozen Four anyway. But if football playoffs for the Subdivision (old D-1AA) are held at home fields, then this ruling is better for UND. All the Alerus has to do is take the "Sioux" out of the end-zones, and whatever happens at the Ralph is of no consequence.

The REA wouldn't likely host an NCAA men's hockey regional and certainly not a men's basketball regional, but there are a number of events that it could host, including the women's Frozen Four, women's hockey playoffs, regional women's basketball (arenas the size of the Ralph are actually typical for 1st/2nd rounds) as well as an men's/women's NIT (now owned by the NCAA) games. REA spokesman have been quoted a number of times as having interest in hosting multiple women's Frozen Fours: it would be one way to have a more national spotlight on the Ralph.

[UND-Williston]

Williston State's name just proves that the tribal leaders and the powers to be are not really upset with Indian nicknames. If they were the Tribal Leaders and State Board of Higher Education would have to change this name long ago. I was using it as an example of how a few can pick and choose what is offensive. Yet I hear nothing from Ron His Horse is Thunder.

I think it's because Williston State is a very small junior college and is flying under the radar than anything else. Williston also does not use a logo, and their uniforms either say "Williston State" or "Tetons". I'm sure the Sioux tribes would like WSC to also change it's nickname, but it hasn't been brought out into the spotlight like UND's has. Also, most people probably don't even know that The Tetons were a band of the Sioux tribe (the western most band, hence the name...).

[PCM]

I think it's because Williston State is a very small junior college and is flying under the radar than anything else. Williston also does not use a logo, and their uniforms either say "Williston State" or "Tetons". I'm sure the Sioux tribes would like WSC to also change it's nickname, but it hasn't been brought out into the spotlight like UND's has. Also, most people probably don't even know that The Tetons were a band of the Sioux tribe (the western most band, hence the name...).

More importantly, Ralph Engelstad didn't give Williston State a boatload of money.

[Goon]

Tell me about it. I was disgusted when I saw the Pontiac ads and the company's arrowhead logo on the Ralph's big screen.

Therefore, it's not likely that we'll be seeing another regional tournament at REA any time soon.

I suppose the NCAA would rather have more neutral sites like the EXCEL energy center in Minneapolis and the Bradley Center in Wisconsin

[The Whistler]

Actually, I was referring to paragraph 3 of the Order (p. 19) which states:

The point is that UND brought forth three Counts (i.e. - three legal theories why it should win this case). In my estimation, two of those Counts were dependent upon the NCAA violating its own procedures and bylaws and enacting defacto legislation through the Executive Committee instead of by revising the bylaws. The third count was the anti-trust count, which if it had been successful, may have afforded UND more permanent relief. The third count was rejected by the court at the preliminary injunction stage. That doesn't mean UND would have lost necessarily, just that it was unlikely to win on that count.

You have implied that UND's "crack" lawyers should have fashioned a case that did not rely on "technicalities". My question to you was, other than the three counts in the complaint, what other counts would you have added to the complaint that would have afforded UND permanent relief?

I apologize for the error entirely on my part.

Your quote relates to the anti-trust matter, right. If the NCAA is a monopoly I don't know what is. I think that the judge was saying that the burden of proof was on the University but then that's what you have trials for.

I did a blog post concerning the actual issue of whether the name is "hostile and abusive." You can read it here. Assuming that it were found that the NCAA HAD NOT followed their own rules it would have been easier to prove that their actions were capricious. One would think that would make it hard for the NCAA to change the rules in the future.

What appears to have happened is that the highest level of the state government made a decision to quit fighting and cave in.

One thing ignored in this is what would have happened if we had merely won on the technicalities. Wouldn't the NCAA be put in a very bad light if they were to resurrect the issue. They might have done that anyway, but at a price. Given that I don't think we got very much out of them at all for our settlement.

[nodakvindy]

Tell me about it. I was disgusted when I saw the Pontiac ads and the company's arrowhead logo on the Ralph's big screen.

The trend with the NCAA has been toward hosting the hockey regionals at neutral sites. Therefore, it's not likely that we'll be seeing another regional tournament at REA any time soon.

I think it's a little too early to make that claim for the West. For the West and Midwest regionals over the next two years, three of the four locations are campus sites. It will be interesting to see when the 2010 and 2011 sites are announce how that goes. Attendance for the regionals has still been spotty. Denver was good, but I think that was also because Frozen Four tickets were tied to the Regional. I suppose you could see that for a regional at the X, but there just aren't the mid-range size arenas in the West that there are in the East, unless you go to someplace like Des Moines. That would probably be a huge failure.

[Taz Boy]

I'm tired of me poo-pooing settlement particulars when I think overall it's a welcome relief. On the positive side, here's what I like about this settlement:

1) NCAA executive committee leaves UND alone to work on issue with tribes

2) Three years is more than enough time, and don't forget the injunction. Bonus time!

3) Recognition for UND's NA program leadership

4) Stops the legal fees, which were skyrocketing

5) Inspired The Oshie to another hat trick, Lammy a shutout

I believe there is high likelihood the name and logo will be retired. Avoiding this would require overwhelming support from our Native American friends; and a healthy binding agreement that benefits both sides. Have not seen evidence of this yet, but who knows?

Time now to sit back, take a deep breath, and focus on what our young student-athletes have in store for us this season.

taz digs da Sioux

[GeauxSioux]

And now for something completely different.....

Lastly, while I understand the need to compromise, in my heart of hearts I wish the NCAA had not compromised and instead kept the pressure on UND to change the nickname. In other words, I wish the NCAA had had the backbone to stand its ground.

A sad but understandable compromise

[ScottM]

But then she began hearing and seeing the name used is offensive ways, and students told her about racist incidents on campus. She changed her mind about the logo she was once so proud of.

Uh, sure Doreen. Care to provide any particulars? And if you're reading this: You're an awful writer, and UND should be ashamed it ever gave you a degree.

[Fetch]

Who puts the most effort & $$$ into saving the Name ?

Who calls the shots - plans the Strategy - pays the costs ?

UND Admin. - State - the Ralph - Ralph's Foundation - Alum./ Students & Fans

Have they worked effectively together on this

[Goon]

But then she began hearing and seeing the name used is offensive ways, and students told her about racist incidents on campus. She changed her mind about the logo she was once so proud of.

Uh, sure Doreen. Care to provide any particulars? And if you're reading this: You're an awful writer, and UND should be ashamed it ever gave you a degree.

Doreen Yellow Bird said this

Several people asked why Ron His Horse Is Thunder, tribal chairman for the Standing Rock Nation, was speaking for the Lakota people. The answer is that he, like North DakotaGov. John Hoeven, is the elected leader of the Lakota and their spokesman.

Collectively, Standing Rock does not seem to like what happens to their children who attend UND and the disrespect aimed at them. The tribe has said no.

Seems that miss Yellowbird has made some serious alegations maybe if your are going to level these charges you should have specifics and evidence.

[Oxbow6]

But then she began hearing and seeing the name used is offensive ways, and students told her about racist incidents on campus. She changed her mind about the logo she was once so proud of.

Uh, sure Doreen. Care to provide any particulars? And if you're reading this: You're an awful writer, and UND should be ashamed it ever gave you a degree.

She must have lunch regularly with Leigh Jeanotte...same lame rhetoric from both over the past few months.

[Oxbow6]

[url="http://www.grandforksherald.com/articles/index.cfm?id=55537

[UND92,96]

Yellow Bird is probably going to have to resign from the Herald shortly after the Sioux name is changed, because what else will she really have to write about at that point? Seriously, what percentage of her columns over the past several years have been devoted to this issue? I predict a severe case of writer's block for her on the horizon...

[ScottM]

Yellow Bird is probably going to have to resign from the Herald shortly after the Sioux name is changed, because what else will she really have to write about at that point? Seriously, what percentage of her columns over the past several years have been devoted to this issue? I predict a severe case of writer's block for her on the horizon...

She's had a case of "writer's block" for at least 15 years ...

[Shawn-O]

Yellow Bird is probably going to have to resign from the Herald shortly after the Sioux name is changed, because what else will she really have to write about at that point? Seriously, what percentage of her columns over the past several years have been devoted to this issue? I predict a severe case of writer's block for her on the horizon...

She puts the "Bird" in bird cage liner.

[Teeder11]

But then she began hearing and seeing the name used is offensive ways, and students told her about racist incidents on campus. She changed her mind about the logo she was once so proud of.

Uh, sure Doreen. Care to provide any particulars? And if you're reading this: You're an awful writer, and UND should be ashamed it ever gave you a degree.

But yet you read her anyway knowing full well what you're going to get. Who's the dope?

Go Fighting Sioux forever!