Negotiated Settlement?

[dakotadan]

With the condition that either of the Sioux tribes can take back their support at any point in time, and the name will be change, I don't see the point in dragging out the inevitable. If the name does eventually change, I do not want to see the administration pick some random name and try force it on the fans. Looking at many University nicknames, they were not necessarily chosen but grew on the university over time. I would like to see UND do the same and just go without a name and see if a nickname slowly catches on and rises to the top choice of many fans before being officially being adopted by the University.

Good luck. A "multi-cultural" committee full of "diversity" will surely approve the final choices and you'll wind up with this:

Storm

Thunder

Lightning

Heat

Wild

Fusion

Fury

Silver Hawks

Blue Sky

Shining Prairie

No thanks. Let's leave the crazy meteorological names with color adjectives to WNBA teams. Oh, and you forgot Sundogs.

[Teeder11]

I'm sorry I blamed the Herald. The Attorney General got it wrong in his statement. Maybe he didn't bother reading it.

You're probably right on that. Serves the AG right. Nice settlement,Wayne!

[The Walrus]

Why do we need a Nickname or Logo.....?

We are the University of North Dakota !

[The Whistler]

Why do we need a Nickname or Logo.....?

We are the University of North Dakota !

We're the Fighting University. FU FU FU. (someone did that above)

[SiouxMD]

We're the Fighting University. FU FU FU. (someone did that above)

FU is taken...Furman University.

[Taz Boy]

Some items in the "settlement" that make my stomach churn...

• Myles Brand's signature
  
• 2a Namesake Exemption can be repealed by NCAA at any time
  
• 2b A shame that the NCAA has to agree in writing to not meddle in external affairs
  
• 2d requires UND to adopt a new nickname and logo, not just drop the old. Why?
  
• 2f is just plain scary. How can you keep NA imagery/culture from getting into any building, in NORTH DAKOTA?!
  
• 2i is weak. Last paragraph is especially diluted, concealing the "no evidence" fact.
  
• 2j greatly restricts UND from licensing/selling nickname/logo. No chance for third party T-shirts!
  

I admit, I'm more disgusted after reading this agreement. Still, it removes the NCAA from the equation for 3 years, and for that we should all be thankful. The issue is now back where it should be, in the hands of the University and the namesake tribes. Either party can axe the name, but both are needed to keep it. I'd like to see a vote from all members of the Sioux Nation, not their leaders spewing off about getting treated nicely at a hockey game.

In any case, let's hope for a quick resolution and move on.

taz

[The Walrus]

2d requires UND to adopt a new nickname and logo, not just drop the old. Why?

So does this mean that we could not just be ...The University of North Dakota

It would be a one of a kind sort of statement, unique in a way of no others.

[SoonersNSioux]

How about the Fighting Stiff Nips?

I got nothin

[siouxjoy]

Okay.

I know only a couple people have posted on this, but I feel it is VERY IMPORTANT to clarify a misconception before it grows out of control.

The University of North Dakota DOES NOT automatically grant free tuition to all Native American students.

There are aid programs, such as the Sioux scholarship and Cultural Diversity Tuition Waiver, but students must apply and qualify for these awards. It is not automatic, and neither of these programs cover all of the costs to attend UND.

Some tribes do have funding earmarked to provide aid to its members, but those programs are regulated through the tribe and have nothing to do with UND.

To me, it is no different than any other aid programs, like the National Merit Program which rewards students with high academic achievement or scholarships from the local cooperative given to students that live in that community. These just happen to be awarded to Native American students.

Sorry, the assumption that all Native Americans attend UND for free is a pet peeve of mine.

[Goon]

I find it interesting that tribal leaders such as Ron His Horse Is Thunder is not very supportive of this settlement. Why would he be against it? The ball in now in his court and it is his and the other tribal leaders decision now. What is he afraid of? If he is a true leader and does represent his people than he should be happy that he has final say. If I was in his shoes and was fighting hard for a change that I could not control and suddenly it was mandated that the decision was mine to make I would welcome it with open arms.

Perhaps he is not comfortable with this settlement for a number of reasons. Maybe he is not representing his people and these silent majority voices will now be heard. Maybe he is more comfortable doing the finger pointing and now is a little uptight that all the finger will be pointing back at him. Maybe he is afraid of the light shining on him and is not comfortable being under the microscope for some reason.

It is very interesting that he and other leaders are not happy with the ultimate say on this matter...

Isn't this what they wanted? They basically got what they want with out any fight. Basically I don't think this guy wants it coming back to him so people will look at him and say see look what you did. It will be interesting to see what kind of stuff comes up in the future.

[Goon]

One thing that I was woundering was is UND ever going to get a vote from the full NCAA executive council?

Edited October 27, 2007 by Goon

[Smoggy]

Okay.

I know only a couple people have posted on this, but I feel it is VERY IMPORTANT to clarify a misconception before it grows out of control.

The University of North Dakota DOES NOT automatically grant free tuition to all Native American students.

There are aid programs, such as the Sioux scholarship and Cultural Diversity Tuition Waiver, but students must apply and qualify for these awards. It is not automatic, and neither of these programs cover all of the costs to attend UND.

Some tribes do have funding earmarked to provide aid to its members, but those programs are regulated through the tribe and have nothing to do with UND.

To me, it is no different than any other aid programs, like the National Merit Program which rewards students with high academic achievement or scholarships from the local cooperative given to students that live in that community. These just happen to be awarded to Native American students.

Sorry, the assumption that all Native Americans attend UND for free is a pet peeve of mine.

I get what you are saying, but can't Native Americans also get National Merit Program awards?

Playing devil's advocate here in the fact that my family had no money to send me to school, but because I'm white I had way less of an opportunity to get scholarships.

[Wreckincrew]

Assuming (I know..ass-u-me) that all the tribe members voices are able to be heard I see no reason for this to be viewed as a defeat. If the majority of Sioux feel that the name is derogatory then we shouldn

[siouxjoy]

I get what you are saying, but can't Native Americans also get National Merit Program awards?

Playing devil's advocate here in the fact that my family had no money to send me to school, but because I'm white I had way less of an opportunity to get scholarships.

Native Americans can receive National Merit Program awards, but the reality is, the number that actually do is very low. The truth is, very few academic aid programs are awarded to minorities, due to the fact that the majority of high-scorers in ACT and SAT are white. Does that make scholarships that use ACT and SAT as criteria discriminatory? Some folks think so.

I may have an advantage here, because of my former job and the fact that I did my grad school work studying various aid programs...

But, there are alot of other awards designated for specific groups that not every person can apply for, including left-handed students, children of certain descent (not just Native American), grandchildren of WWII veterans, etc. I guess, in my opinion, the scholarship program is what it is. If you think about the amount of scholarships that are designated for certain groups (awards for certain majors, residents of certain counties, certain sports positions), it is hard for me to be upset that some are awarded to Native Americans.

Where I think the real problem lies with paying for college is that tuition rates have gone up astronomically while the government's idea of "unable to pay" hasn't changed at all. Of course those that make $10,000 a year can't afford college, but now it's to the point where families with incomes of $40,000 can't afford it either. When will that be acknowledged?

All that being said, I know what you are saying. I am still paying off my loans and I did have some scholarship money, too (I'm white, so I didn't get the tuition waiver or any other "diversity" aid).

Wow, I went WAY on a tangent there. Sorry. Back to discussing the settlement.

[Stone Buddha]

I don't believe the tribal councils at Standing Rock or Spirit Lake are ever going to endorse the name. The polls on Native American opinion on this issue are really unreliable. Native mascots are not a big priority given all the other things they have to worry about, so when asked in a casual poll they are relatively indifferent. But, when Indian people focus on the issue and learn more about the specifics, their opposition gets very strong. This is a fairly common phenomena in all democratic politics.

Trying to convince the tribes will be a big waste of time. They made up their minds a long time ago, and their opposition will only get stronger the more attention they pay to it.

[PCM]

I don't believe the tribal councils at Standing Rock or Spirit Lake are ever going to endorse the name. The polls on Native American opinion on this issue are really unreliable. Native mascots are not a big priority given all the other things they have to worry about, so when asked in a casual poll they are relatively indifferent. But, when Indian people focus on the issue and learn more about the specifics, their opposition gets very strong. This is a fairly common phenomena in all democratic politics.

Are you a poli sci major?

[Stone Buddha]

Are you a poli sci major?

Yep, and I've been studying tribal politics. This isn't going to happen.

[larsensa]

So these guys get to decide what our school name is going to be?

Ron His Horse is Thunder

David Gipp

Do we really want them to be in charge of deciding the future of our school's name and logo? I don't know for sure but I don't think they are even UND Alum?

If you are bored and want to see an interesting example of how political correctness has changed our culture take a look at this: <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/kokogiak/sets/1425737/show/" target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/kokogiak/sets/1425737/show/</a> Notice how all of the Native American images were removed from the new version of the book along with many other things. The new version is on the right side.

[Hawkster]

I see where the tribal leadership at both Standing Rock and Spirit Lake have already said their earlier positions won't change. Time to move on. Lets select a new name and get down to business. With all the latest distractions, does anyone even remember there is a football game today?

[GeauxSioux]

UND LAWSUIT: Settlement

The more I read about the settlement, the more I think that Stenehjem got the best deal he could get, knowing that this could have been extended for years, costing millions and the NCAA could just simply change their by-laws and force UND to change the name.

One element of UND's legal argument against the NCAA is that the association violated its own bylaws by passing the 2005 American Indian nickname ban with only a vote of its executive committee, not the entire membership.

The NCAA has begun the process of altering its bylaws to allow the executive committee to pass such a policy, Stenehjem said. If they are successful, he said, the NCAA would be able to overrule any jury's decision.

[Oxbow6]

Remember, Archie Fools Bear said that six of eight districts on the Standing Rock reservation approved of UND's use of the Fighting Sioux nickname. When Fools Bear tried to get the tribal council to support the nickname, His Horse is Thunder wouldn't even allow a vote. That might be a clue.

I also believe that there's more support for UND on the Spirit Lake reservation than we've been led to believe. That's one way to look at Myra Pearson's wet-noodle leadership on the issue.

From today's Fargo Forum:

"Allowing the 3-year period to influence the tribes leaves the door open for UND and its agents to continue their meddling in the social and political affairs of tribal nations, causing untold damage in the lives of good people and families who only wish to have their ways and heritage respected."

David Gipp, President of United Tribes Technical College

Are you kidding me?! Meddling? Causing untold damage? Again, it's Indian leadership seeing a tree and not the forest. The Indian leadership mentality, for generations, has been: No one is going to me/us what to do. But yet do they present any solutions for their troubled "social and political affairs"? Of course not. If you're going to complain, fine. But then have some type of solution for what you're complianing about. Heritage?? Over the last few decades what is that?? Politcal corruption within tribal government, astronomical rates of alcoholism, teen pregnancy rates and high school drop-out rates within their own tribes. And that is just the tip of the iceberg! Should I go on? There is damge being done to "good people and families", but it is not because of UND's nickname/logo.

UND needs to take the lead and say enough is enough. UND sets the date for the name change and then UND starts requiring Indian students to meet the same academic standards as their fellow peers to gain enterance into UND and then we'll see how long it take for the Indian leadership starts to barking racism over what is fair and just in the real world. Enough pandering to a society that just wants to "have thier ways and heritage respected". Let them for once try to make a way on their own.

[TheGreatSiouxNation]

How about the Fighting Stiff Nips?

I got nothin

I still say we steal Williston State name "Tetons". Imagine the logo still intact and no tribal approval from either Devils Lake or Standing Rock. Plus the French muddied this word and it means "Teats". But there are also an Indian Tribe, river and mountain range. We would only need approval from a small tribe out west.

[Goon]

I see where the tribal leadership at both Standing Rock and Spirit Lake have already said their earlier positions won't change. Time to move on. Lets select a new name and get down to business. With all the latest distractions, does anyone even remember there is a football game today?

There was actually a hockey game last night as well...

[SiouxMD]

There was actually a hockey game last night as well...

There were actually two hockey games last night.

[jimdahl]

UND LAWSUIT: Settlement

The more I read about the settlement, the more I think that Stenehjem got the best deal he could get, knowing that this could have been extended for years, costing millions and the NCAA could just simply change their by-laws and force UND to change the name.

Based on my read so far I agree, as I said a few times yesterday in this thread and on the blog. I read this settlement as a signal from UND that the only possible outcomes (without sanctions) were tribal approval or changing the name. Given that, this settlement bought 3 years, a clear definition of tribal approval, concessions on logos in REA, and getting off the NCAA's enemy list; all I can see that N.D. really gave up in return was the right to further expensive lawsuits that they knew wouldn't accomplish anything.