who has a Hand Gun ?

[Local Boy]

I know what you mean Sicatoka. I was going to end my post with...

"Thank god Friday is 4/20 and we can all kick back, smoke a fatty, and get along".

But, I didn't want to drop a drug reference. Too late now, I guess.

[Fetch]

http://www.reason.com/news/show/119694.html

there is going to be a lot of this

[proudsioux]

In North Dakota, I bet 3 out of 5 people that can legally have a gun do.

Ahh i love being from ND.

[The Sicatoka]

http://www.reason.com/news/show/119694.html

there is going to be a lot of this

Remember the attack at Appalachian School of Law?

Three dead.

The gunman wrestled down and stopped by three others.

End of story, right?

That's what the media said ... (cue Paul Harvey and ... the rest of the story)

Turns out two of the three "wrestlers" went to their vehicles, got private weapons, and then subdued the attacker.

How many knew that (obviously unimportant to the media) detail.

[GeauxSioux]

I thank those have offered information on the different types of firearms and I promise that if/when I do purchase I will do plenty of homework and get training on both usage and safety.

I'm not sure how many of you have heard of Kennesaw GA. They have a requirement that all of the citizens, with the exception of those with criminal records, to own a gun.

Bag The Colors And Pass The Ammunition

Teddy Roosevelt wasn't talking about gun ownership when he said "walk softly and carry a big stick", but it conjures up the same meaning in my mind. I imagine that most criminals would be far less brave and brazen if alot more people had concealed weapons (carry a big stick).

FYI, I think he actually wrote "speak softly and carry a big stick" first.

[Sioux-cia]

Turns out two of the three "wrestlers" went to their vehicles, got private weapons, and then subdued the attacker.

How many knew that (obviously unimportant to the media) detail.

I know that hindsight is always 20/20 but I wonder.

In the moment, I doubt if I would have had the presence of mind to pull out my gun (if I had one) when the murderer first entered a classroom and started shooting. If a student in one of the two classrooms that the murderer tried to reenter had a gun...........

[wxman91]

In D.C. you can't possess a handgun that wasn't registered before 1976 (i.e. no 30 year old could legally own a gun). Further, if you happen to be old enough to have had a gun before the retroactive ban, D.C. law prohibits storing a gun in an operable condition, even in your home (i.e. useless for self-defense).

Examining D.C. crime/murders to determine the effect on such of getting guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens is left as an exercise for the reader.

Update -- DaveK's post reminded me that I didn't answer the question. Don't own any guns, but have no particular moral opposition.

"In 1995 the District already had one of the nation's toughest gun control laws, forbidding handgun possession in the home. This is the provision the appeals court recently overturned. But handguns still flowed easily into the District from neighboring states, fueling black-market sales and hampering the effectiveness of the city's in-home ban.

In 1995 and 1997 laws enacted in, respectively, Virginia and Maryland prohibited citizens from purchasing more than one gun per month, dramatically reducing illegal gun sales as supply was choked off. The number of handguns coming into the District from those states fell immediately after the laws were passed. Before Virginia passed its law, it was the No. 1 supplier of guns seized in crimes in the District. Once Virginia's law took effect, Maryland became the largest source of guns seized in D.C. crimes. In the year after Maryland passed its one-gun-a-month law, the number of Maryland guns seized in the District dropped from 20 to zero.

These bans on multiple gun sales in neighboring states choked off black-market sales, while the D.C. ban on guns in the home reduced the ability of youths to borrow guns from family and friends. The result? The number of juveniles charged with homicide in the District fell 86 percent from 1995 to 2006. In 1995, 14 of the 227 people charged with a homicide in the District, or 6 percent, were juveniles. Last year, only two out of 106 people (fewer than 2 percent) charged with homicides in the District were juveniles. Because easy access to cheap handguns disproportionately jeopardizes D.C. youths, laws that restrict such access disproportionately benefit youths.

No single factor can account for this substantial decline in homicides by D.C. juveniles. But to deny the impact of serious gun control laws and put guns back into children's homes would be misguided and dangerous. We hope the courts give us back an important tool to protect the safety of our youths and the residents of the District of Columbia."

[Ranger]

Quite simply "April 20". (Put it or "4/20" into a search engine and see what pops.)

- the cannabis culture

- Columbine

- Hitler's birthday

It's the confluence of a whole set of freaky sub-cultures.

it's 4:20 24 times a day...

4/19: Waco and Oklahoma City

[Sioux-cia]

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/21605.html

Washington D.C., has the strictest gun control laws on the books. They banned all handguns more than 25 years ago to 'curb gun violence'. Law abiding citizens are not allowed to carry handguns. Washington D.C. has one of the highest levels of gun crimes committed against it's law abiding citizens. In fact, their gun crime problem has been labeled by their own police as a "crime emergency". There are 46.4 murders for every 100,000 people in Washington D.C. but across the way in Arlington Virginia is another world.

You see, in Arlington, the citizens are allowed to own, carry, and flaunt their handguns. And despite being only minutes away from D.C., the murder rate there is 2.1 for every 100,000 people.

Now get this, the gun control crowd insists that D.C.'s gun control problem is Virginia's fault because it is so easy to get guns there. The fact that the criminal has a clear choice of attacking unarmed people in D.C. or potentially armed people in Arlington and they choose D.C. and the unarmed people 23 times more often is just a coincidence.

*I'm quoting the Conservative Voice!! I'm going to hell for sure!*

[HockeyMom]

My wife and I do not allow guns in our home. We won't even tolerate toy guys. There are many other good toys for our kids to play with, and we see no need for kids to simulate killing each other. I see guns as one of the worst evils in this world we live in. I'm sure not everybody is going to agree with that, which is fine because we're all entitled to an opinion.

I respect your opinion on this, but I hope that you do say more to your kids about gun safety than-stay away from guns. They are going to go to their friends houses, and they may or may not be exposed to those weapons......

[Supertrex]

The 357 is a great choice. It's nice to have the versatilty to shoot both 38 and 357. Depending on what you plan on using the gun for, be it home defense or concealed carried, i would look at the Smith & Wesson 340 or 360. They are a little more pricey, but very light and a very reliable gun.

I have a Kimber 1911 .45 ACP and a CWC permit in ND (and Utah)...

Best home defense weapon? Two hands on a semi-auto 12 gauge with the plug out and five round in the mag, one in the chamber...next best is a Rem SP 10 gauge (very loud, run-for-your-life sound when you close the action)...pistols are best for concealed carry

A .357 is an excellent choice if you want to be sued and support your "victim" (you know, the guy that attempted to use deadly force against you and lost) for the rest of your natural life. The safest gun is unloaded and stored in your safe (that's where I keep mine). The next safest gun is a cocked and locked 1911. The problem with a single action revolver is that the hammer can slip when cocking it. In addition, they are terrible for self defense because they are generally heavy, nearly impossible to conceal and you have to cock them in the heat of the action.

When I went to my CWC classes, there were people there that had no business carrying a gun because they will never be able to use it. One guy attempted to load the clip by placing the cartriges in backward. Another, a woman, could not cock and chamber a round. I suggested to the guy next to me that she'd be better off with track shoes. That is true of most people that don't have experience. Bottom line, if you buy a gun, learn how to use it or don't bother drawing it at the moment of truth - when a real criminal is moving in, any sign of weakness or indecision on your part will only embolden him or her...

Lastly, I really enjoyed the irony on the front page of the Fargo Forum this morning...the lead story was Buchanan getting off for murder and then the next front page story headline was "Are guns the problem?" Do they really need to ask? Letting that thug off is what is wrong with our system...

[Goon]

My apology. Since a mass murder preceded this thread and you did not qualify your statement, I thought you were speaking of mass murderers. Since your statement was I did not know you were speaking of illegals. Mea culpa....

Good point Sioux-Cia, the man was actually a naturalized citizen so he wasn't illegal.

[Goon]

Yeah, actually... my middle son has been talking about going to a friend's house to trade sports cards but we haven't let him go over there yet for that very reason. We don't know this kid's parents and do not feel right sending our son to their house unless we know for a fact that there are no guns in the house. We told him his friend could come over here but he isn't going to the friend's house until after we've met the friend's parents. Every time there is a news story in which people have been killed by guns I take the opportunity to preach my anti-guns agenda to the kids.

Being in North Dakota we live in a hunting society, All of my friends hunting, my family hunts, I don't think I know all that many people that don't have guns in their house. Most gun owners are safe people that put their guns away securely.

[DI IN FARGO]

I have a Kimber 1911 .45 ACP and a CWC permit in ND (and Utah)...

Best home defense weapon? Two hands on a semi-auto 12 gauge with the plug out and five round in the mag, one in the chamber...next best is a Rem SP 10 gauge (very loud, run-for-your-life sound when you close the action)...pistols are best for concealed carry

A .357 is an excellent choice if you want to be sued and support your "victim" (you know, the guy that attempted to use deadly force against you and lost) for the rest of your natural life. The safest gun is unloaded and stored in your safe (that's where I keep mine). The next safest gun is a cocked and locked 1911. The problem with a single action revolver is that the hammer can slip when cocking it. In addition, they are terrible for self defense because they are generally heavy, nearly impossible to conceal and you have to cock them in the heat of the action.

When I went to my CWC classes, there were people there that had no business carrying a gun because they will never be able to use it. One guy attempted to load the clip by placing the cartriges in backward. Another, a woman, could not cock and chamber a round. I suggested to the guy next to me that she'd be better off with track shoes. That is true of most people that don't have experience. Bottom line, if you buy a gun, learn how to use it or don't bother drawing it at the moment of truth - when a real criminal is moving in, any sign of weakness or indecision on your part will only embolden him or her...

Lastly, I really enjoyed the irony on the front page of the Fargo Forum this morning...the lead story was Buchanan getting off for murder and then the next front page story headline was "Are guns the problem?" Do they really need to ask? Letting that thug off is what is wrong with our system...

I agree but this one falls on the prosecutors. They went after all or nothing. They rolled the dice and the public is the loser as this guy with his track record will surely be in the news again somewhere sometime. The prosecutors gave the jury no choice however, they didn't prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt and they forced the jury to play the hand they did. I bet if you asked the jurors if they had a choice between the Capital murder charges or also could have considered a lesser charge they would mot surely have convicted him on the lesser charges. The prosecutors surely knew when they chose to charge him with 1st degree murder and the jury would not be able to consider lesser charges that the case had to be a slam dunk or the guy would walk. Now he's free, I'm sure that at least some of the jurors felt that he should have served some time but were able to do nothing about it.

[Bison Dan]

Yeah, actually... my middle son has been talking about going to a friend's house to trade sports cards but we haven't let him go over there yet for that very reason. We don't know this kid's parents and do not feel right sending our son to their house unless we know for a fact that there are no guns in the house. We told him his friend could come over here but he isn't going to the friend's house until after we've met the friend's parents. Every time there is a news story in which people have been killed by guns I take the opportunity to preach my anti-guns agenda to the kids.

Dave - your kids are the ones that have gun accidents. Kids that don't know a damn thing about guns. If you were smart you'd have your kids take the hunter safety course so they have some knowledge about guns. If you don't want them to be around guns fine, but your not with them all the time, especially as they get bigger. At least they won't be curious when they come across a gun and know what to do.

[Goon]

Dave - your kids are the ones that have gun accidents. Kids that don't know a damn thing about guns. If you were smart you'd have your kids take the hunter safety course so they have some knowledge about guns. If you don't want them to be around guns fine, but your not with them all the time, especially as they get bigger. At least they won't be curious when they come across a gun and know what to do.

I was under the impression that all kids took hunter safety courses in ND. Even my wife the non-hunter has taken one.

[wxman91]

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/21605.html

*I'm quoting the Conservative Voice!! I'm going to hell for sure!*

This is a terrible argument if you know the area. I hate to say this, because it sounds racist and maybe is, but the difference between Arlington and DC isn't guns, it is African Americans. The people committing crimes don't cross the river because of gun laws, its because the crimes are over drugs and gangs in their own neighborhoods. DC has something like 63 cars stolen every day, Arlington 2. Is that because of guns? No, its because of the types of people that live there.

[Fetch]

All semi-auto shotguns jam at some point - that is why police use pump shotguns - They are the most reliable

BisonDan I bet your right

[ScottM]

All semi-auto shotguns jam at some point - that is why police use pump shotguns - They are the most reliable

I prefer the double-barrel side-by-side Savage myself for quail and grouse hunting due to its quicker firing ability. And I keep a shorter-barrel (20") version around the house for "pests". Along the same note, my brother in law, after spending time "advising" in the mideast, selected a short-barrel 20 gauge single shot with #4 shot for his house. It can be operated by him or my small frame sister quickly, and the shot probably won't pentrate walls to possibly harm others in the house, including their kids. And he also keeps a Springfield .45 auto "just in case".

[Goon]

All semi-auto shotguns jam at some point - that is why police use pump shotguns - They are the most reliable

BisonDan I bet your right

Especially if you don't clean them correctly I found that out this year. I am getting a over and under this summer if I can swing it.

[Fetch]

I think I'll get one of these http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.a...mp;display=desc

http://www.impactguns.com/store/rem_870_police_shotguns.html

This is a very nice Gun http://www.remington.com/products/firearms...rine_magnum.asp

for the $$$ (reasonable) this is possibly the best shotgun http://www.remington.com/products/firearms...etic_18inch.asp

or this http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.a...ection=products

[jimdahl]

This is a terrible argument if you know the area. I hate to say this, because it sounds racist and maybe is, but the difference between Arlington and DC isn't guns, it is African Americans.

Arlington just has MS-13 -- Arlington criminals prefer machetes to guns

[Fetch]

There are companies coming out with gun safety's that if you are not wearing a special ring - the gun won't fire

http://www.tarnhelm.com/magna-trigger/gun/safety/magna1.html

http://www.tarnhelm.com/writerscorner.html

http://www.njit.edu/publicinfo/newsroom/Sp...ht_smartgun.php

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/200...o-sfa121604.php

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/2...S_CAN_FIRE_.asp

or this http://www.smartlock.com/shows.htm

[Siouxmama]

There are companies coming out with gun safety's that if you are not wearing a special ring - the gun won't fire

Siouxmama loves jewelry

[Supertrex]

All semi-auto shotguns jam at some point - that is why police use pump shotguns - They are the most reliable

BisonDan I bet your right

Neah...too much chance of getting off the target when operating the action... At room temperature, a semi-auto rarely jams...happens more often to new guns rather than used, loose actions. Benellis are a problem because they have a rotating locking bolt that is very succeptible to dirt and powder residue. I would never buy one of those, especially since they are so over priced. Anyway, Keep it clean, no worries.

Goon: I have a Beretta 687 Silver Pigeon Grade 5 , 12 gauge, 28" barrel in "as new" condition I'll sell you...comes with case, chokes and all case candy.