Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[GeauxSioux]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/189726/

But the North Dakota Constitution

[mksioux]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/189726/

I'm not familiar with the North Dakota Constitution so I'll take the AG at his word. But it does seem odd that the State Constitution includes a provision allowing an unelected Board to override the will of the people. It was probably designed to avoid micro-managing, but it seems to me the will of the people through their duly elected representatives should trump rule by fiat. But if it's in the Constitution, then it controls. Maybe that's why these legislators feel so free to introduce symbolic legislation that, in reality, will hurt UND, Maybe they know that if it ever passes, it will be struck down by the courts.

Regardless of the Constitutional concerns, it's disappointing that no reporter has asked about the practical consequences with the NCAA of retaining the nickname. Do the legislators actually know they would be voting to place NCAA sanctions on UND? Do they not realize that because the deadline has passed, the NCAA would not have to remove UND from the sanctions list even if Standing Rock eventually votes to uphold the nickname?

[darell1976]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/189726/

North Dakota Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem, for years one of the strongest advocates for UND retaining its Fighting Sioux nickname and logo, said today that bills introduced in the Legislature Monday to enshrine the symbols in state law face a significant constitutional hurdle.

It won't fly. For one thing AG Wayne Stenjeum would find it unconsitutional or some crap like that and the bill would die

From my quote from yesterday. Boy did I call it right.

[The Sicatoka]

Are we sure this isn't more about the Legislature trying to take back some of the power given via the Roundtable on Higher Ed to the ND State Board of Higher Education?

[Fetch]

I wonder how much the State Board & Legislature & NCAA would do if a wrecking ball showed up at the Ralph ?

[Goon]

Point, set, and match.

I agree it's a little too late because they are probably tired of getting beat up for doing nothing for so long...

[dmksioux]

Representative Carlson was on the Dan Hammer show today. for those that are interested, here is the link: link

I would agree with the sentiment of most posters on here that this is nothing more than grandstanding and if they were serious about it, action would have taken place at a prior legislative session.

[Blackheart]

I wonder how much the State Board & Legislature & NCAA would do if a wrecking ball showed up at the Ralph ?

That would be interesting because apparently they are selling the bench seats out of the old arena...

[mksioux]

The Herald editorial about sums it up. At least somebody pointed out the negative implications for UND of such legislation, even if the ND Constitution were amended to make the bills constitutional. You simply cannot retain the Sioux nickname without the NCAA's blessing.

Herald editorial

[ScottM]

The Herald editorial about sums it up. At least somebody pointed out the negative implications for UND of such legislation, even if the ND Constitution were amended to make the bills constitutional. You simply cannot retain the Sioux nickname without the NCAA's blessing.

Herald editorial

I seldom agree with the Hurled's editorial board, but they seem to have done their homework on this latest tantrum.

[firewall]

Lot's of discussion on "agville" about Carlson and the name issue. I thought they had "moved on."

[The Sicatoka]

Curiouser and curiouser.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41044460/ns/local_news-fargo_nd/

Welcome to Wonderland.

[darell1976]

Lot's of discussion on "agville" about Carlson and the name issue. I thought they had "moved on."

Anything that puts UND in the news makes for good humor at BVille.

[mksioux]

Curiouser and curiouser.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41044460/ns/local_news-fargo_nd/

Welcome to Wonderland.

The story mentions the Constitutional hurdle, but doesn't even reference the NCAA sanctions that UND would face if the legislature forced it to retain the nickname. Any news article that doesn't at least raise that critical issue cannot be taken seriously. And I thoroughly disagree with Harmeson. None of these bills will ever become law.

[darell1976]

Curiouser and curiouser.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41044460/ns/local_news-fargo_nd/

Welcome to Wonderland.

Phil Harmeson is a dumb@ss. UND's nickname will be gone forever. Get over it. I started to accept this but now it pisses me off that our legislature is bringing this up after the deadline. Where the f-ck where these @ssholes last year?? Or even before the Spirit Lake vote. Its too late....move on!!!!

[darell1976]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/189822/

Another question concerned how the university is monitoring the retailing of logo-bearing merchandise until Aug. 15, when the transition is to be complete. A committee member had reported last month seeing someone wearing clothing with the logo and

[Old Time Hockey]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/189822/

OMG!!! Its 1991 all over again. Everyone was wearing Redskins Forever shirts and signs around GF to bring back Central's nickname. Whoever got this Sioux Forever shirt....I WANT ONE!!!!

I don't have one yet, but my 3 year old daughter will be wearing one at the Ralph this weekend. They have kids shirts with Sioux Forever at Scheels in Fargo. I think they have adult sizes also, but am not 100% on that.

By the way.... I had a Redskin forever shirt as well! Graduated from their right before they dropped the logo.

[darell1976]

I don't have one yet, but my 3 year old daughter will be wearing one at the Ralph this weekend. They have kids shirts with Sioux Forever at Scheels in Fargo. I think they have adult sizes also, but am not 100% on that.

By the way.... I had a Redskin forever shirt as well! Graduated from their right before they dropped the logo.

I still have a GFC Redskins jacket I bought from the student store in 1991 when I was a sophmore.

[MDNSioux]

Im glad the legislature is taking a stand on this. Yes it should have been done sooner but at least somebody is sticking up for what the majority of the people want. Better late than never. It sad that everyone is rolling over now and taking it in the you know what. If you believe that UND should keep the name then you should stand behind those that are trying to do so. Those that wanted the name gone never gave up until they got what they want. Now we should just let them have there way? Screw that! Maybe there is no chance or a small chance this goes anywhere but people still need to push this issue if thats what they believe in. I will never concede to these politically correct morons. In my opinion the majority of people in this state want to keep the nickname regardless of race. I think the members on the SBOHE gave in and let the minority win.

[darell1976]

Im glad the legislature is taking a stand on this. Yes it should have been done sooner but at least somebody is sticking up for what the majority of the people want. Better late than never. It sad that everyone is rolling over now and taking it in the you know what. If you believe that UND should keep the name then you should stand behind those that are trying to do so. Those that wanted the name gone never gave up until they got what they want. Now we should just let them have there way? Screw that! Maybe there is no chance or a small chance this goes anywhere but people still need to push this issue if thats what they believe in. I will never concede to these politically correct morons. In my opinion the majority of people in this state want to keep the nickname regardless of race. I think the members on the SBOHE gave in and let the minority win.

Why?? Its over. The NCAA said November 30, 2010. Its January 2011. Its over. Its like losing a game but trying to tell the other team just 1 more quarter. Over means over. What is sad is getting people's hope up again only to crush them with reality. If this was January 2010 fine, but the deadline is the deadline. We need to accept that UND is not going to be the Fighting Sioux again. They are going to be the UND Fighting XXXXX. And the sooner we get a new name the sooner acceptance will set in. Should be still be fighting the GF school board and get Central, Valley, West and Wilder schools their nicknames back too??

One more thing if we keep the name...no more football playoffs in the Alerus. No more hockey playoffs in the Ralph, or Betty. No Sioux name or logo on our jerseys in the playoffs on the road. No playing Minnesota, and possibly a number of teams who are against NA team names. Is it worth to tell the NCAA go to hell we will do things our way in their association.

[green_sioux]

I don't have one yet, but my 3 year old daughter will be wearing one at the Ralph this weekend. They have kids shirts with Sioux Forever at Scheels in Fargo. I think they have adult sizes also, but am not 100% on that.

By the way.... I had a Redskin forever shirt as well! Graduated from their right before they dropped the logo.

I got a Sioux Forever shirt as a gift at Christmas. My daughter and son-in-law got it for me after seeing people tailgating at the Alerus this fall wearing them. I asked her where she got and she found the website for me. http://siouxpride.com/ Don't know much more than that but I'll be wearing it and my Sioux gear for years to come.

[dagies]

Look, it's probably too late to save anything but I've got NO problem with this effort. My perspective, admittedly pretty naive about the law and legal process.

It's been said that the State Board is independant and cannot be forced to do something by legislation. That may be, but if there is a law, could there not be pressure put upon the State Board to act in a way that is consistent with the law? (Whatever that may be)

Could that not lead to more official pressure put to bear against the Standing Rock council to put the issue to a vote?

Now, admittedly, I think the biggest obstacle is the agreement with the NCAA. No denying the NCAA got what it wanted and the deadline has passed. I can't imagine there's a very big chance anything will affect them, so this is probably going to be a real sticking point. But, there is new leadership at the NCAA, so maybe there's a chance if both tribes suddenly came forward with there consent, ND would show the state law backing the nickname, etc etc, that the NCAA might look harder at acquiescing even after the deadline has passed?

As for concerns that this legislation is going to harm UND in the long run, I just don't know. I cannot imagine that if it came to that, that the same legislators would stick with this legislation and make UND suffer. I don't buy that. It would get dropped, or ignored. I'm not concerned about those ramifications.

It's past time for the ND government to weigh in, IF they were ever going to, but for me I don't see a real downside at this time. As long as it's a serious effort and not just grandstanding. I'm happy to see it play out.

[dakota fairways]

One problem with putting this legislation on the books is that the legislature only meets for a couple of months every other year.

Two years ago, there was still time for it to work out under the (then) new agreement between Stenehjem and the NCAA.

Those of you who are saying where were they January 2010? Well, they were at home, the last legislative session in North Dakota was in 2009.

Those of you who realize that the legislature was not in session and say they should have called a special session, now there is a lot of extra costs for a single issue.

Unfortunately, Stenehjem negotiated a very poor agreement when you look at the other schools that only needed to get the approval of the nearest tribe, yet UND has to get approval from two tribes.

So, if the legislation passes, Standing Rock still doesn't bother to do anything about it and the NCAA stands firm, what is UND to do? Will UND be forced to keep the nickname and endure the sanctions and the rumored scheduling obstacles that may result while our citizen legislature goes home for 2 years? Does the Big Sky Conference care about the nickname issue? I have not seen anything about their position on it. As much as i would like to see UND keep the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo, if this passes and the legislature adjourns, what collateral damage will follow in the two years until the next session? I would hope that this legislation does not force UND into a corner that it cannot get out of. All that said, it would be great if this can work to keep the Fighting Sioux name!

Another question that comes to mind, why do the Lakota people object to the use of the Sioux name? The members of the Standing Rock tribe call themselves Lakota, not Sioux, so why does the Standing Rock Tribal Council have to approve the use of a name they don't even use?

[82SiouxGuy]

One problem with putting this legislation on the books is that the legislature only meets for a couple of months every other year.

Two years ago, there was still time for it to work out under the (then) new agreement between Stenehjem and the NCAA.

Those of you who are saying where were they January 2010? Well, they were at home, the last legislative session in North Dakota was in 2009.

Those of you who realize that the legislature was not in session and say they should have called a special session, now there is a lot of extra costs for a single issue.

Unfortunately, Stenehjem negotiated a very poor agreement when you look at the other schools that only needed to get the approval of the nearest tribe, yet UND has to get approval from two tribes.

So, if the legislation passes, Standing Rock still doesn't bother to do anything about it and the NCAA stands firm, what is UND to do? Will UND be forced to keep the nickname and endure the sanctions and the rumored scheduling obstacles that may result while our citizen legislature goes home for 2 years? Does the Big Sky Conference care about the nickname issue? I have not seen anything about their position on it. As much as i would like to see UND keep the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo, if this passes and the legislature adjourns, what collateral damage will follow in the two years until the next session? I would hope that this legislation does not force UND into a corner that it cannot get out of. All that said, it would be great if this can work to keep the Fighting Sioux name!

Another question that comes to mind, why do the Lakota people object to the use of the Sioux name? The members of the Standing Rock tribe call themselves Lakota, not Sioux, so why does the Standing Rock Tribal Council have to approve the use of a name they don't even use?

Right at the top of their home page they call themselves Standing Rock Sioux Tribe.

As far as the settlement being a bad deal because of the requirement for 2 tribes, unless we know what happened in the negotiations it is hard to say if that was really a bad deal. I don't like the requirement, and I am not a huge fan of the Attorney General, but it is always hard to know whether it's a bad deal or not unless you know the details. The second tribe might have been what was traded to buy the 3 years of grace period. Or to get the NCAA to agree to apologize for the "hostile and abusive" charge. You have to trade something to get something. My guess is that the requirement of 2 tribes was traded to get something that the state wanted out of the settlement.

[82SiouxGuy]

Look, it's probably too late to save anything but I've got NO problem with this effort. My perspective, admittedly pretty naive about the law and legal process.

It's been said that the State Board is independant and cannot be forced to do something by legislation. That may be, but if there is a law, could there not be pressure put upon the State Board to act in a way that is consistent with the law? (Whatever that may be)

Could that not lead to more official pressure put to bear against the Standing Rock council to put the issue to a vote?

Now, admittedly, I think the biggest obstacle is the agreement with the NCAA. No denying the NCAA got what it wanted and the deadline has passed. I can't imagine there's a very big chance anything will affect them, so this is probably going to be a real sticking point. But, there is new leadership at the NCAA, so maybe there's a chance if both tribes suddenly came forward with there consent, ND would show the state law backing the nickname, etc etc, that the NCAA might look harder at acquiescing even after the deadline has passed?

As for concerns that this legislation is going to harm UND in the long run, I just don't know. I cannot imagine that if it came to that, that the same legislators would stick with this legislation and make UND suffer. I don't buy that. It would get dropped, or ignored. I'm not concerned about those ramifications.

It's past time for the ND government to weigh in, IF they were ever going to, but for me I don't see a real downside at this time. As long as it's a serious effort and not just grandstanding. I'm happy to see it play out.

The settlement is a huge problem with the proposed legislation. The NCAA has absolutely no reason to give anything back. They have a signed legal agreement to get what they wanted. What would be their incentive to change the agreement? The rest of the country isn't going to care. As a matter of fact, some would look on it as a sign of weakness if the NCAA gave in at this point. Unless someone can find a reason that the NCAA would benefit, they aren't going to change the agreement.

The constitutional issue is also a large problem. The constitution gives the control to the State Board and removes the decision making from the legislature. It was put in because the legislature was trying to micromanage the colleges (kind of like this law would do). Politics doesn't mix well with something like education. That's why school boards are supposed to be non-partisan. Politicians can sometimes pick issues just to make themselves look good, not because they believe it is important or right. If our esteemed representatives really wanted to get involved they should have done something over the past 3 years. This is a case of too little, too late.