Fire Berry Please!

[SiouxFan100]

I feel what a change in coach can do to the football program. Results we will see 

[Big A HG]

5 hours ago, Goon said:

FFS! The current team has two number-one draft choices. Have you watched the D-Core? Because of injuries they got valuable time to mature and grow. To say the recruiting sucks is short-sighted.  Come on! Sacha, EJ Emery, Livanavage, Wiebe, Strathmann, just to name a few. 

 

Miraculously Berry managed to add those two.  He only managed three other first-rounders in his entire tenure otherwise, and one of them was off the back of Haksol's tenure since Jost committed before Berry even coached a game.  The only big potential con for a blue chip recruit to not come to UND is the fact it's in the northern plains.  

 

The fact that Berry is using the portal as much as he has, particularly at goaltending, tells me he's a bit lazy on the recruiting trail in my opinion.  How we can't recruit a good goaltender after all these years is wild to me.

[Big A HG]

9 hours ago, stoneySIOUX said:

Not arguing any of that. I'm saying... after all the ups-and-downs of this season, we lose in the regional final, the season wouldn't be considered a "success" to me, but my goodness, certainly not gonna fire the coach after it. My opinion.

My overall concept to this thread is that we aren't firing Bubs midseason. What is the point of this now? Let the dang season play out.

 

He's had plenty of other chances to win a single tournament game after the national championship and has only managed to do it once.  How many tries do we give this guy?  Honest question, how long do you think Berry should stay and what would it take for you to think he should be removed?

[siouxkid12]

5 hours ago, Goon said:

FFS! The current team has two number-one draft choices. Have you watched the D-Core? Because of injuries they got valuable time to mature and grow. To say the recruiting sucks is short-sighted.  Come on! Sacha, EJ Emery, Livanavage, Wiebe, Strathmann, just to name a few. 

Recruiting doesn’t suck but how about development? Are NHL teams concerned with how their players are being developed? 
 

It’s just a question? 

[brianvf]

1 hour ago, siouxkid12 said:

Recruiting doesn’t suck but how about development? Are NHL teams concerned with how their players are being developed?

I don't think NHL teams worry about development at UND.  Look at Blake.  A 4th round pick, plays 2 seasons at UND then makes the NHL team the following fall.
Look at the Ottawa Senators.  We're essentially a feeder program for them at this point.

[90siouxfan]

Berry to UNLV...   build a program up may be his niche and there is a connection. And maybe a side gig to make it more appealing...

[siouxkid12]

8 hours ago, brianvf said:

I don't think NHL teams worry about development at UND.  Look at Blake.  A 4th round pick, plays 2 seasons at UND then makes the NHL team the following fall.
Look at the Ottawa Senators.  We're essentially a feeder program for them at this point.

Understood. I just look at the teams Lucia coached, and they had guys that were 1st/2nd rounders that left early due to their development at the UofM. 

[jdub27]

15 hours ago, gfhockey said:

And it seems a lot are in the camp of being complacent with one tournament victory in 10 years take that times too. We’ll have two tournament victories in 20 years.

Anyone remember when people said they'd trade what Hakstol was doing for a national championship with some "down years" mixed in like what Sandelin did at Duluth?
 

[burd]

A third grader who has never seen a hockey game could critique a staff or program based solely on NCAA tourney outcomes.   They are certainly relevant and important, but some actual hockey talk in this process would be informative as well.    

[stoneySIOUX]

20 hours ago, gfhockey said:

Are you in the camp that’s complacent in not making the ncaas

No, but I've never once been a fan of firing for the sake of firing. I get incredibly nervous about losing our pipeline. 

[stoneySIOUX]

14 hours ago, Blackheart said:

Regional final?  That means we won a tournament game, right?  That would double the total since 2016.

Yes, that was the point of my original comment that I responded to. 

[stoneySIOUX]

11 hours ago, Big A HG said:

 

He's had plenty of other chances to win a single tournament game after the national championship and has only managed to do it once.  How many tries do we give this guy?  Honest question, how long do you think Berry should stay and what would it take for you to think he should be removed?

It's a fair question. I don't know what the line would be, honestly.

So many people want to ignore regular season success, but in my opinion, it feels wild to fully judge a coach's resume of success year over year based on a one-and-done format. In theory, there are many here that would fire Bubs if he went 30-0 into the national tournament and his team lost in the first round. It's fine if you want that. I just disagree.

[cberkas]

9 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

It's a fair question. I don't know what the line would be, honestly.

So many people want to ignore regular season success, but in my opinion, it feels wild to fully judge a coach's resume of success year over year based on a one-and-done format. In theory, there are many here that would fire Bubs if he went 30-0 into the national tournament and his team lost in the first round. It's fine if you want that. I just disagree.

Denver didn't renew/fired Gwozdecky basically for this and he won back-to-back titles. He won 1 Conference and WCHA Tournament titles, missed 2 NCAAs, and made 1 Regional Final after the National Titles. 

[tnt]

If college sports is going the way of professional sports, expecting fans to contribute above and beyond not only season ticket prices, Champions Club memberships, but now to basically pay the players to come here because an education isn't enough, then I think some expectations go with that.  Frankly, I thought UND hockey had expectations before all that began, but I guess I was wrong. 

[fightingsioux4life]

7 minutes ago, cberkas said:

Denver didn't renew/fired Gwozdecky basically for this and he won back-to-back titles. He won 1 Conference and WCHA Tournament titles, missed 2 NCAAs, and made 1 Regional Final after the National Titles. 

This 100%

[tnt]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Woog 

[siouxkid12]

35 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

It's a fair question. I don't know what the line would be, honestly.

So many people want to ignore regular season success, but in my opinion, it feels wild to fully judge a coach's resume of success year over year based on a one-and-done format. In theory, there are many here that would fire Bubs if he went 30-0 into the national tournament and his team lost in the first round. It's fine if you want that. I just disagree.

Lucia won back-to-back titles and then he basically stunk in the post season after and they relieved him. 

[siouxkid12]

3 minutes ago, tnt said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Woog 

John Gasparini - Wikipedia

[tnt]

Just now, siouxkid12 said:

Lucia won back-to-back titles and then he basically stunk in the post season after and they relieved him. 

...and if you look at how long Minnesota waited to replace Doug Woog with Don Lucia, you wonder if Minnesota would be equal with UND in National Championships had they not waited to move on from the nice guy.   Basically I think it is time for UND to make some progress in the National tourney, because it isn't just all bad luck in a one and done situation. 

[Brim006]

46 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

No, but I've never once been a fan of firing for the sake of firing. I get incredibly nervous about losing our pipeline. 

It wouldn't be just for the sake of firing. They've been a bubble team missing the tournament just as many times as making it in the past 8 seasons and are in line to miss once again. It's time...

As far as the pipeline goes, even if the entire staff was swiped clean, most would stay committed, and any that left could be backfilled with the same caliber kids pretty easily. The facilities and tradition guarantee a solid pipeline far more than the coaches do. 

[stoneySIOUX]

2 minutes ago, Brim006 said:

It wouldn't be just for the sake of firing. They've been a bubble team missing the tournament just as many times as making it in the past 8 seasons and are in line to miss once again. It's time...

As far as the pipeline goes, even if the entire staff was swiped clean, most would stay committed, and any that left could be backfilled with the same caliber kids pretty easily. The facilities and tradition guarantee a solid pipeline far more than the coaches do. 

I agree that our pedigree would help maintain and reup our pipeline, but I don't agree it would be "pretty easy". In fact, it would be very hard.

I happen to think Bubs has been recruiting tremendously well and with the way the portal works these days, I'd be very nervous to make a change with our pipeline and our current roster. With that said, this uneasiness shouldn't ultimately keep UND from making a change if it needs to. I just don't think they need to. I don't agree it's time, but I don't know what the line is, honestly.

23 minutes ago, cberkas said:

Denver didn't renew/fired Gwozdecky basically for this and he won back-to-back titles. He won 1 Conference and WCHA Tournament titles, missed 2 NCAAs, and made 1 Regional Final after the National Titles. 

Gwoz's firing came down to a lot more than performance.

[Brim006]

It's pretty glaring when a team regularly gets beat by far inferior programs at a high enough rate where it can't be chalked up to a few fluke weekends. Despite their major recruiting and training facility advantages, they're still losing a lot of those, and have been over the past 8 season. Bottom line, they're getting out coached and it's time for fresh blood IMO.  

[stoneySIOUX]

Just now, Brim006 said:

It's pretty glaring when a team regularly gets beat by far inferior programs at a high enough rate where it can't be chalked up to a few fluke weekends. Despite their major recruiting and training facility advantages, they're still losing a lot of those, and have been over the past 8 season. Bottom line, they're getting out coached and it's time for fresh blood IMO.  

Without a discussion of how a team is getting "outcoached", this is the stuff that holds no merit. I'm honestly not directly singling you out, I'm really not, but this has no basis in fact, it's just opinion. This belief is driven by the recent lack of success in NCAA. I get that. But I don't think I've ever heard a logical reasoning why Bubs lost any of the games we're griping that he's responsible for. 

"Regularly beat by far inferior programs" is also not based in fact. UND consistently beats teams it should. You don't chalk a record that Bubs has by losing to losing to teams you should beat. 

[gfhockey]

How can you be bad in post season when we hardly make it ther

[stoneySIOUX]

21 minutes ago, siouxkid12 said:

Lucia won back-to-back titles and then he basically stunk in the post season after and they relieved him. 

Lucia was also being publicly criticized by NHL GMs during the end of his tenure. Bubs' current situation is absolutely nothing like this.