A UND NIL collective

[Benny Baker]

36 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Could be 1099, but yes, taxable. 

Right, for sure taxes are getting paid.  I guess I was just wondering if Kunz was literally a "private employee" or, more likely, a 1099 independent contractor.

[fightingsioux4life]

2 minutes ago, HoopsFan03 said:

I just don't see the ROI to donating to the collective if you're a business in Grand Forks, ND. 

It would have to be looked at as strictly a "donation" (but with no tax benefit since the collective is for-profit) and not an actual investment. 

Most people give to a cause because they care about it. If they want to make money off of it, a sponsorship deal would be most appropriate.

[SIOUXFAN97]

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/39974973/fedex-pledges-25m-5-years-nil-program-memphis

nosy parkers

[Benny Baker]

23 minutes ago, HoopsFan03 said:

I just don't see the ROI to donating to the collective if you're a business in Grand Forks, ND. 

It would have to be looked at as strictly a "donation" (but with no tax benefit since the collective is for-profit) and not an actual investment. 

Isn't there a qui-pro-quo for the business, though?  I thought the idea behind Name, Image, and Likeness was that athletes could sell their Name, Image, and Likeness to a business in exchange for money.  For example, the Tellmans give $X to the collective so long as Sioux players appear in a Red Pepper commercial; or every Friday night Cameron Berg needs to send out a tweet telling the drunk hockey crowd to pick up a Grinder After the Game; etc.  

[The Sicatoka]

54 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/39974973/fedex-pledges-25m-5-years-nil-program-memphis

nosy parkers

FedEx put out a press release about their contribution. They chose to disclose what they did. 

Doesn't say who's getting what. 

[The Sicatoka]

53 minutes ago, Benny Baker said:

Right, for sure taxes are getting paid.  I guess I was just wondering if Kunz was literally a "private employee" or, more likely, a 1099 independent contractor.

Either way, short of being a stakeholder in the transaction, we have no right to know the details of the private transaction unless the parties choose to disclose. 

[HoopsFan03]

47 minutes ago, Benny Baker said:

Isn't there a qui-pro-quo for the business, though?  I thought the idea behind Name, Image, and Likeness was that athletes could sell their Name, Image, and Likeness to a business in exchange for money.  For example, the Tellmans give $X to the collective so long as Sioux players appear in a Red Pepper commercial; or every Friday night Cameron Berg needs to send out a tweet telling the drunk hockey crowd to pick up a Grinder After the Game; etc.  

Yes. That is how it is supposed to be. That is true NIL. All the big schools are doing 'Pay for Play' right now.

I guess my point/questioning is, say Berg gets $30k from Red Pepper through this collective. Does him appearing in a commercial/tweeting about Red Pepper have a positive ROI for Red Pepper? I guess I just question if it does. Look at Mattress Cam in Fargo. Not sure what he got to be in those commercials but I doubt him doing that NIL deal had a positive ROI for the mattress store.

I think it may be hard to continue to convince the businesses in GF year after year that contributing to this collective gives them a better benefit than contributing to other groups/foundations. Not sure it is sustainable. I could be completely wrong though! Just sharing my thoughts on NIL at small schools. 

[UND1983]

Are donations to a collective tax deductible for a business?

[UND1983]

57 minutes ago, Benny Baker said:

Isn't there a qui-pro-quo for the business, though?  I thought the idea behind Name, Image, and Likeness was that athletes could sell their Name, Image, and Likeness to a business in exchange for money.  For example, the Tellmans give $X to the collective so long as Sioux players appear in a Red Pepper commercial; or every Friday night Cameron Berg needs to send out a tweet telling the drunk hockey crowd to pick up a Grinder After the Game; etc.  

That was the original intent but it quickly blew way past that into pay for play.  

[The Sicatoka]

Under NIL what SMU fans did for the "Pony Express" back in the day would be all legal. 

 

Back then SMU Football got the NCAA "death penalty". 

[The Sicatoka]

1 minute ago, UND1983 said:

Are donations to a collective tax deductible for a business?

No.

https://1883collective.com/faq/ 

[Benny Baker]

7 minutes ago, HoopsFan03 said:

Yes. That is how it is supposed to be. That is true NIL. All the big schools are doing 'Pay for Play' right now.

I guess my point/questioning is, say Berg gets $30k from Red Pepper through this collective. Does him appearing in a commercial/tweeting about Red Pepper have a positive ROI for Red Pepper? I guess I just question if it does. Look at Mattress Cam in Fargo. Not sure what he got to be in those commercials but I doubt him doing that NIL deal had a positive ROI for the mattress store.

I think it may be hard to continue to convince the businesses in GF year after year that contributing to this collective gives them a better benefit than contributing to other groups/foundations. Not sure it is sustainable. I could be completely wrong though! Just sharing my thoughts on NIL at small schools. 

Gotcha.  Yeah, that aspect makes sense.  To your point, there might be higher ROI with billboards than having a Sioux player promoting your sandwiches on twitter.

[The Sicatoka]

We'll never know if "mattress Cam" or Grant "Nodak Insurance" Nelson made a difference, one way or the other. 

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, Benny Baker said:

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/39974973/fedex-pledges-25m-5-years-nil-program-memphis

UND's collective is going to need a lot of folks to kick in the $25 bucks a month to compete with some of these other schools.

I fear the truth of the matter is that UND does not have a large enough alumni base nor is there a significant enough corporate presence in Grand Forks, North Dakota to enable UND to compete whatsoever in the NIL game.

 

1 hour ago, fightingsioux4life said:

We have a huge alumni base, many of whom are fiercely loyal to their alma mater. We just need to make them aware of this thing and the importance of it. That means communicating with them better than we have communicated with Champions Club members, based on a few stories I have read on this forum.

We have never had as many alumni as the bigger schools in the NCAA. But we've always punched above our weight class in Division I hockey. I don't think NIL will be as big of a factor in FCS football and mid-major basketball, but even those sports will occasionally need NIL assistance.

I will say this: If we are not willing or able to raise the funds needed to really compete in FCS football and at a mid-major level in basketball, maybe we should move back down to Division 2. And no, I am not being hyperbolic either.

We aren't competing against the P5. They are literally in a different league despite the "D1" moniker that everyone has.
Schools the size of UND are going to use NIL the way it was more closely intended to be. 1883 is partnering with businesses and non-profits to help facilitate deals with athletes. Donations from individuals will help supplement these deals that are being made. It isn't going to be life changing money but it is something on top of FCOA and Alston to help make it a little harder to turn down some of those outside offers. Not going to work on everyone but the hope (for UND and other Summit/MVFC schools) is it at least makes some difference and keeps a few more of those players around.

NIL will absolutely be a factor at UND's level, but in the way that P5 schools are going to dangle much bigger dollar amounts to get the best players at the lower levels.
As for the D2 crap.....UND is one of the few schools in the nation that offers both FCOA and Alston, with only around 50 or so doing the latter as of last fall. Again, not life changing money but it is a lot more than most schools at UND's "level" is currently doing. 

 

 

16 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

No.

https://1883collective.com/faq/ 

Not tax-deductible for business, but they can write it off as an expense, lowering income, lessening tax burden.

[Benny Baker]

5 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

 

We aren't competing against the P5.

Depends on the sport.  Also, Memphis isn't P5 to begin with, either.

[The Sicatoka]

36 minutes ago, Benny Baker said:

Depends on the sport.  Also, Memphis isn't P5 to begin with, either.

If/when the great split happens, Memphis will be one of the very last to catch the lifeboat but likely will just the same. 

[The Sicatoka]

55 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Not tax-deductible for business, but they can write it off as an expense, lowering income, lessening tax burden.

True, but I do wonder about (as Hoops brings up) the ROI. 

[nodakvindy]

The fact that these NIL collectives are needed should tell you that this is pretty much a ponzi scheme. If the players were creating so much revenue there would be money to pay them. But people don't think about the costs of facilities, travel, insurance etc. Sports are becoming a financial drain, with actual students paying a sizable cost and providing minor league sports at the expense of the academic mission of the school. There will be some sort of shock to the system soon, as it simply isn't sustainable 

[jdub27]

23 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

True, but I do wonder about (as Hoops brings up) the ROI. 

Sure, but that's a completely separate conversation. 

[forksandspoons]

Awesome way to contribute to NIL:

 

[Green Banner]

5 hours ago, forksandspoons said:

Awesome way to contribute to NIL:

 

$75 dollars for a Kaleb Johnson sweatshirt.  No thanks

[The Sicatoka]

2 minutes ago, Green Banner said:

$75 dollars for a Kaleb Johnson sweatshirt.  No thanks

Does it come with a cheese wheel? 

[Cratter]

On 4/19/2024 at 1:42 PM, Benny Baker said:

Isn't there a qui-pro-quo for the business, though?  I thought the idea behind Name, Image, and Likeness was that athletes could sell their Name, Image, and Likeness to a business in exchange for money.  For example, the Tellmans give $X to the collective so long as Sioux players appear in a Red Pepper commercial; or every Friday night Cameron Berg needs to send out a tweet telling the drunk hockey crowd to pick up a Grinder After the Game; etc.  

Some of us seem to be forgetting that a "collective" isn't some sort of end game.

The Red Pepper can still do those things. The collective can help collaborate this if RP needs help and wants a "one stop shop" to make this happen.

As the name indicates, a collective, is an opportunity for small players to enter the field.

And if anyone wants, they can make another UND collective.

Sorta like the SiouxShop.... "supporting NIL"....just not needing call it a "collective"... cause that would be weird.

Nomenclature still trying to catch up: "Proud NIL Supporter of UND Athletics"?

[nodak651]

Pretty awesome the Sioux Shop will finally be able to sell jersey's with player names.  

[SIOUXFAN97]

22 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

Pretty awesome the Sioux Shop will finally be able to sell jersey's with player names.  

where's the one that says FIREKELLEY?