Homecoming: Western Illinois @ UND

[shep]

The Kaminski talk is nuts.

I just read that Eli Manning sat the RS year AND the following year. He then played 3 consecutive years in college. He said he NEEDED to sit and learn those first two years.

[SiouxBoys]

26 minutes ago, shep said:

The Kaminski talk is nuts.

I just read that Eli Manning sat the RS year AND the following year. He then played 3 consecutive years in college. He said he NEEDED to sit and learn those first two years.

It's completely idiotic. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 hour ago, SiouxBoys said:

It's completely idiotic. 

It’s impossible for a freshman to start at QB…

How did it work out for the Jacks?

https://gojacks.com/sports/football/roster/mark-gronowski/12203

[SiouxBoys]

1 minute ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

It’s impossible for a freshman to start at QB…

How did it work out for the Jacks?

https://gojacks.com/sports/football/roster/mark-gronowski/12203

Nice! Have another example? No? Great talk!

[fightingsioux4life]

1 hour ago, SiouxBoys said:

It's completely idiotic. 

I agree with you on this. If Kaminski has stuck with us for this long, I just don't see him entering the portal because he isn't starting as a freshman.

[SiouxBoys]

Just now, fightingsioux4life said:

I agree with you on this. Kaminski has stuck with us for this long, I just don't see him entering the portal because he isn't starting as a freshman.

And if he does, then that's not the kind of player needed in a program. I'm extremely excited for Jerry when his time comes. It's not his time yet.

[Midwestern Hawk]

3 minutes ago, SiouxBoys said:

Nice! Have another example? No? Great talk!

You said to even talk about it is idiotic.  I simply pointed out it has happened.  If not for the injury the Jacks would have won a natty.  We are just trying to beat a good FCS team once in awhile.

Maybe Kaminski is not that good, I don’t know.  If he is good and is not playing because he is a true Frosh, he will likely be somewhere else next season.  

[SiouxBoys]

1 minute ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

You said to even talk about it is idiotic.  I simply pointed out it has happened.  If not for the injury the Jacks would have won a natty.  We are just trying to beat a good FCS team once in awhile.

Maybe Kaminski is not that good, I don’t know.  If he is good and is not playing because he is a true Frosh, he will likely be somewhere else next season.  

UND beat that true Frosh phenom. Jerry is good. His time will come. If he was better than the other QB's right now, he'd be playing. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

5 minutes ago, SiouxBoys said:

UND beat that true Frosh phenom. Jerry is good. His time will come. If he was better than the other QB's right now, he'd be playing. 

I agree, we did beat him and the Jacks.  It was our last win against a really good team…

[SiouxBoys]

4 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

I agree, we did beat him and the Jacks.  It was our last win against a really good team…

The argument on Jerry would be much better if it wasn't based on a single bike ride by a random practice one day as well.

[Midwestern Hawk]

4 minutes ago, SiouxBoys said:

The argument on Jerry would be much better if it wasn't based on a single bike ride by a random practice one day as well.

So you KNOW he is not better upside than Tommy?  Was that your bike ride INTEL?

Any bets on Tommy’s stat line vs NDSU Saturday?  Will Tommy avg more then 5 yards per attempt?

[SiouxBoys]

Just now, Midwestern Hawk said:

So you KNOW he is not better upside than Tommy?  Was that your bike ride INTEL?

No, I do not. I'm guessing and hoping he has higher upside than Tommy. But right now, Tommy is better. If he wasn't then Jerry would be playing. 

Three options, go ahead and pick:

A). Tommy is better than Jerry right now. (Emphasis on right now. I hope when Jerry takes over, he ends up being the best QB in program history)

B). Jerry is better than Tommy, but the coaches aren't smart enough to see it.

C). Jerry is better than Tommy, but the coaches are purposefully losing games by not playing the better QB. 

I'll go with option A. You?

[iramurphy]

13 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

It’s impossible for a freshman to start at QB…

How did it work out for the Jacks?

https://gojacks.com/sports/football/roster/mark-gronowski/12203

No it isn’t impossible.  

 

8 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

You said to even talk about it is idiotic.  I simply pointed out it has happened.  If not for the injury the Jacks would have won a natty.  We are just trying to beat a good FCS team once in awhile.

Maybe Kaminski is not that good, I don’t know.  If he is good and is not playing because he is a true Frosh, he will likely be somewhere else next season.  

We are trying to consistently beat the good FCS teams and a good FBS team once in awhile.
I don’t see anyone claiming Kaminski isn’t very good with a great upside. The reason he isn’t playing now is that he isn’t ready and there are 3 guys in front of him who are ready. He may get some time yet this year as long as he doesn’t lose eligibility.
Where do you get the idea that if he doesn’t play as a freshman he will leave?Feeney didn’t play as a freshman and stayed. I would expect the same from Kaminski. Both of them have coaches who should be able to guide them. 
No one knows if SDSU would have won a title had he stayed healthy. Maybe, maybe not. Grownowski probably would not have moved up if the starter, the back up, and the 3 were all completing over 70% of their passes with no ints. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

Just now, SiouxBoys said:

No, I do not. I'm guessing and hoping he has higher upside than Tommy. But right now, Tommy is better. If he wasn't then Jerry would be playing. 

Three options, go ahead and pick:

A). Tommy is better than Jerry right now. (Emphasis on right now. I hope when Jerry takes over, he ends up being the best QB in program history)

B). Jerry is better than Tommy, but the coaches aren't smart enough to see it.

C). Jerry is better than Tommy, but the coaches are purposefully losing games by not playing the better QB. 

I'll go with option A. You?

How about option D?  Jerry is better than Tommy, but the coaches are afraid to pull the trigger?

Again I don’t know the facts on the situation.  I find it hard to believe we have all these QBs and nobody gives us a better chance to beat a good team than a qb who doesn’t like to run and who will get us about 4.5 yards per attempt.

 

[SiouxBoys]

Just now, Midwestern Hawk said:

How about option D?  Jerry is better than Tommy, but the coaches are afraid to pull the trigger?

Again I don’t know the facts on the situation.  I find it hard to believe we have all these QBs and nobody gives us a better chance to beat a good team than a qb who doesn’t like to run and who will get us about 4.5 yards per attempt.

 

Afraid of what? That wasn't an option for a reason. It's genuinely dumb to think that.

[Midwestern Hawk]

1 minute ago, iramurphy said:

No it isn’t impossible.  

 

We are trying to consistently beat the good FCS teams and a good FBS team once in awhile.
I don’t see anyone claiming Kaminski isn’t very good with a great upside. The reason he isn’t playing now is that he isn’t ready and there are 3 guys in front of him who are ready. He may get some time yet this year as long as he doesn’t lose eligibility.
Where do you get the idea that if he doesn’t play as a freshman he will leave?Feeney didn’t play as a freshman and stayed. I would expect the same from Kaminski. Both of them have coaches who should be able to guide them. 
No one knows if SDSU would have won a title had he stayed healthy. Maybe, maybe not. Grownowski probably would not have moved up if the starter, the back up, and the 3 were all completing over 70% of their passes with no ints. 

The “impossible” comment triggered me.  Your comments are likely correct.  It scares me that Tommy is still our best choice.  We need more than a “game manager” to beat SU on Saturday.

[iramurphy]

13 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

So you KNOW he is not better upside than Tommy?  Was that your bike ride INTEL?

Any bets on Tommy’s stat line vs NDSU Saturday?  Will Tommy avg more then 5 yards per attempt?

You don’t get to start cuz of your potential. Give the kid a chance to adjust to the speed and complexity of the college game. 

[SiouxBoys]

Just now, Midwestern Hawk said:

The “impossible” comment triggered me.  Your comments are likely correct.  It scares me that Tommy is still our best choice.  We need more than a “game manager” to beat SU on Saturday.

Nobody said "impossible". I said idiotic, like thinking the coaches are afraid to do it. 

[iramurphy]

10 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

How about option D?  Jerry is better than Tommy, but the coaches are afraid to pull the trigger?

Again I don’t know the facts on the situation.  I find it hard to believe we have all these QBs and nobody gives us a better chance to beat a good team than a qb who doesn’t like to run and who will get us about 4.5 yards per attempt.

 

He is averaging over 10 yds  per completion and over 7 yds per attempt. 
I don’t believe he will put a team on his back and win games. What he does well is protect the ball and he doesn’t lose games for you. I think Feeney has a bigger upside but I’m not at practice everyday. Feeney needs to be patient and hopefully his time will come sooner rather than later. Don’t forget Romfo has also shown promise. 

[Sioux94]

I think the big difference between Gronowski starting as a true freshman and Kaminski is there was nobody proven ahead of him. I haven't looked any of this up but I think SDSU graduates their stud QB.......and the next year Gronowski took over and beat out the other guy who they were not maybe even that high in, it's not like Gronowski came in and took the starting spot from a 3 year starter that was on the Walter Payton watch list. 

To your point though SDSU would have absolutely won that Championship game if he was healthy the whole game IMO. But I would also bet even Kaminski's dad is probably ok with Jerry red shirting this year. 

I am also with you though us struggling to move the ball with Tommy in against NDSU this week. We can't dink and dunk against good teams all day long and expect to win. 

[Midwestern Hawk]

9 hours ago, iramurphy said:

He is averaging over 10 yds  per completion and over 7 yds per attempt. 
I don’t believe he will put a team on his back and win games. What he does well is protect the ball and he doesn’t lose games for you. I think Feeney has a bigger upside but I’m not at practice everyday. Feeney needs to be patient and hopefully his time will come sooner rather than later. Don’t forget Romfo has also shown promise. 

Tommy is not averaging over 5 yards per attempt in the big games.  He also does not like to run . With “adequate” QB play the rest of the team needs to be better than the opponent. 
 

Far easier to defend a team where the QB doesn’t throw deep and won’t run.  We need Tommy to be at 8+ yards per attempt on Saturday and have half a dozen runs for 30 yards.

[shep]

The WR crew has gotten better, but I am still not seeing a ton of explosiveness from them in general. I don't care how far your QB can toss the pigskin if his receivers aren't out there to catch it.

 

 

[HoopsFan03]

41 minutes ago, shep said:

The WR crew has gotten better, but I am still not seeing a ton of explosiveness from them in general. I don't care how far your QB can toss the pigskin if his receivers aren't out there to catch it.

So which is it? At the beginning of the year UND 360 and people on here were saying this was the deepest WR room UND has had in a LONG time. Now all of a sudden our WR room is bad?

Is this really the best excuse people can make for our QB that can't throw the ball further than 5 yards? Maybe it is the lack of a deep ball that allows CB's to sit on every route and not allow any separation? I guess that would be too logical of an answer though. 

[Dustin]

40 minutes ago, shep said:

The WR crew has gotten better, but I am still not seeing a ton of explosiveness from them in general. I don't care how far your QB can toss the pigskin if his receivers aren't out there to catch it.

 

 

Yeah, I've been thinking about the "dink and dunk" comments regarding the passing game, and it seems like most are putting that blame on Tommy's arm.  That's not fair because he's able to throw 20-30+ yard pass plays, but a lot of things need to come together for a long pass play to happen, not just what the QB is doing or his arm strength.  Need to get good line protection to allow time for receivers to get separation, provided they can.

[wheelsup]

43 minutes ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

Tommy is not averaging over 5 yards per attempt in the big games.  He also does not like to run . With “adequate” QB play the rest of the team needs to be better than the opponent. 
 

Far easier to defend a team where the QB doesn’t throw deep and won’t run.  We need Tommy to be at 8+ yards per attempt on Saturday and have half a dozen runs for 30 yards.

 

38 minutes ago, shep said:

The WR crew has gotten better, but I am still not seeing a ton of explosiveness from them in general. I don't care how far your QB can toss the pigskin if his receivers aren't out there to catch it.

 

 

• I think Tommy might be a little too aware of his completion percentage.  Every so often he needs to throw the ball and let the WR make a play.  Instead of making sure the WR is wide open before throwing.
• I know his stats were decent against Western Illinois.. but I was at the game and the majority of his passing yards had to be YAC... it was short pass.. short pass.. short pass.. On his longest pass of the day (in the box score) I think he threw it about 6 inches to Red. On a couple of his longer throws the WR fell down.  I noticed we seemed to be slipping a bit on Saturday so it would be nice to get the footwear situation sorted out by Saturday.
• Tommy doesnt seem to like to run but he is elusive.  There were a couple times in the last game that I thought he was going to be crushed and he somehow got out of it 
• I thought Elidor and Nate D were supposed to help fix the explosiveness issue.  I love watching Red out there.  I cant wait to see Vuciri out there!  Ive heard a couple on here refer to Tai as well.
• Whenever I get too negative about Tommy all I have to do is remember Ketteringham, which also might be an argument for starting a freshman. We would have certainly won more games if Tommy had started his first year instead sticking with Kett.  Somehow I would like to see more of Feeney... but my assumption is that Danny gets to see them everyday and also really wants to win games.