Some Thoughts on UND's FB Program

[The Sicatoka]

34 minutes ago, SiouxFan100 said:

If someone donated $10 million dollars to the football program how would you spend it?

I wouldn't.
I'd pull Bubba, Mannausau, and a dollars/business mind together and have them figure it out. 

[Goon]

33 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

For perspective, it's about 1/3 the annual athletics operating budget.
https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/3865944f 

It'd buy two of the proposed Memorial Village II softball facility ($4.5M). 

How many years for football; it would seem that wouldn’t go that far for very long: i.e. players, NIL, coaching additions. We already know hardened facilities are expensive and wouldn’t go as far as we think. I’d love to have 10 mil to spend, but sports are expensive. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, The Sicatoka said:

Not calling out individuals ... then call out "departmental leadership" (implicitly Chaves or Carlson-Zink). 

I did. I have. Numerous times. Suspect you read on back. The direction and philosophy … again … is of concern. Some of ya’ll are broken, I swear, or on repeat for a ruse. 

[SiouxFan100]

My understanding is that our football program is underfunded. If true, how much would it take to be fully funded? Break down in dollars what is needed and where the money would go.

For instance:

Increase coaching salaries half million a year

NIL half million per year 

[Hawkster]

26 minutes ago, SiouxFan100 said:

My understanding is that our football program is underfunded. If true, how much would it take to be fully funded? Break down in dollars what is needed and where the money would go.

For instance:

Increase coaching salaries half million a year

NIL half million per year 

Hockey has proven that throwing money at a program doesn't necessarily get you more championships.

[Irish]

Some good points made here and some ideas for thought - Ira suggested more involvement and I think that is important.  I also think that the people at UND are working hard although there are some areas for improvement.  Would more funding help?  Absolutely.  But here's the bottom line - as long as we have a Football program where a 5-6 season gets the coach a contract extension in a non-contract year those at the very top are setting the bar pretty low.  Six years of Muss at 31-34 and 9 years of Bubba at 54-45 doesn't exactly scream success. That's a long time wandering in the wilderness.  The turnaround needs to start at the top.  Muss had 4 more years after the Sioux Falls debacle.  Change here is glacial.  

[iramurphy]

6 hours ago, nodak651 said:

If UND doesn't have a software program that helps with the analytics and automatically processes this information for them, this would be one place to start.  There are programs out there that can help to identify different groups of potential donors, or former donors, or sport specific donors, etc.  Are donors who have committed to fundraising drives like the Lets Help Bubba drives on this website being encouraged to join the champions club if they aren't cc members, for example?  Much of this could be processed by software, and select groups of people could be sent information that is more tailored specifically to them (former donors, donors that have decreased their donations but still donate, donors that increased donations over prior years, etc.)  

Good points, good ideas. 

[iramurphy]

18 minutes ago, Irish said:

Some good points made here and some ideas for thought - Ira suggested more involvement and I think that is important.  I also think that the people at UND are working hard although there are some areas for improvement.  Would more funding help?  Absolutely.  But here's the bottom line - as long as we have a Football program where a 5-6 season gets the coach a contract extension in a non-contract year those at the very top are setting the bar pretty low.  Six years of Muss at 31-34 and 9 years of Bubba at 54-45 doesn't exactly scream success. That's a long time wandering in the wilderness.  The turnaround needs to start at the top.  Muss had 4 more years after the Sioux Falls debacle.  Change here is glacial.  

Valid points and I agree with concerns. I’m not under the impression change is imminent so I may not raise all of concerns on this forum. I’m hoping we have done enough to see improvements in FB, MBB, WBB and VB this year. Time will tell. 

[Kab]

Any time you go to a health care facility you receive a survey within a couple days

 

UND could have a Survey when fans buy season tickets or make donations 

at least they could see what we are thinking, make it all online and easy 

[UND-FB-FAN]

55 minutes ago, Irish said:

Some good points made here and some ideas for thought - Ira suggested more involvement and I think that is important.  I also think that the people at UND are working hard although there are some areas for improvement.  Would more funding help?  Absolutely.  But here's the bottom line - as long as we have a Football program where a 5-6 season gets the coach a contract extension in a non-contract year those at the very top are setting the bar pretty low.  Six years of Muss at 31-34 and 9 years of Bubba at 54-45 doesn't exactly scream success. That's a long time wandering in the wilderness.  The turnaround needs to start at the top.  Muss had 4 more years after the Sioux Falls debacle.  Change here is glacial.  

True. More funding, more effort by leadership (AD and his department) towards football, and expectation improvement. As mentioned before, UND doesn’t dare make a change at any leadership positions, including head coach, and it shows in terms of complacency and mediocrity.

[UND-FB-FAN]

44 minutes ago, iramurphy said:

I’m not under the impression change is imminent so I may not raise all of concerns on this forum.

Time will tell. 

Time will tell …

holy sh*t, unreal 

complacency is breeding the mediocrity we see; change never being imminent is one of the primary concerns, along with funding and focus. The same folks who run the athletic department and extend a 5-6 coach (career .500) are the ones who do not devote specific efforts toward marketing and fundraising for football. Department does absolutely overlook supporters that collectively could make a huge difference. @nodak651 with a short but true post demonstrating significance of 10k donors. These are absolute realisms. We as supporters need to realize it to start pushing the correct buttons moving forward for UND football to take the next step. 

[iramurphy]

10 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Start by asking what are the discrepancies in staff size when you consider staff dedicated to hockey vs FB? What are the hours per week dedicated to each? How many hours are spent organizing football alumni / CC member functions and events around the states of ND and MN? Are CC members even attempted to be contacted to inquire on interest in donating to specific football projects? These are basic questions I’ve already posted. Compare and contrast budgets of hockey and football; any potential change to either upcoming? Any potential changes to leadership for CC, AA, or other staff positions? 

You’ll quickly find out the administration either doesn’t want to answer those questions (perceived interrogation), or, they simply will reveal to you how little they care about football. Both likely replies are beyond disappointing and are futile within the overall landscape of collegiate athletics. 

There’s plenty of time to be proactive this time of the year, hence the assumption of laziness. But again, philosophy also plays a role. 

Maybe I was wrong to think you already knew how many staff members are working with the different sports and the hours spent on different sports because you tell us there are big discrepancies. When have such strong criticisms of the philosophy it stands to reason you know what the philosophy is. 
I hate to state the obvious but posting your “basic questions” on this forum isn’t going to get you your answers. 
It’s becoming clear you have made assumptions rather than base your criticisms of time spent, efforts made etc on facts. 
 

I can only tell you what I know from experience. The staff involved with CC and athletics work hard. I have seen no evidence of laziness and frankly that’s a cheap shot.  I have never had any of those folks fail to respond to my questions. None of them have indicated little or no interest in football. They often have fan get togethers or tailgating at away FB games. 
 

If you imply you know all of the answers to the shortcomings of staff and departments but you can’t come up with the details it raises the question of your credibility. So what exactly is this philosophy you refer to that is so wrong? What are the staff assignments  and time commitments that you seem to know about?  
 

Who would you like to sit down with to express your concerns?  I bet a number of folks on this forum would be willing arrange that and even sit in on that meeting to make sure they answer questions. If it’s questions about coaches performance and job security that is information that is protected by the data privacy act. 
 

[FSSD]

Alerus Center with more improvements that will help.

 

 

[UND-FB-FAN]

10 hours ago, iramurphy said:

If you imply you know all of the answers to the shortcomings of staff and departments but you can’t come up with the details it raises the question of your credibility. So what exactly is this philosophy you refer to that is so wrong? What are the staff assignments  and time commitments that you seem to know about?  

More personal critique, while skipping over the concerns that have been spelled out several times over.

The philosophy - whether implicit or explicit - is to devote majority of time to hockey, conversely limiting the time spent on football. This is obvious in more signifiant scenarios like fundraising, football specific events like watch parties for away games, communication with alumni and Champions Club members to update on goals and inquire on more specific support, package deals for away game tickets or home game tickets, etc. to more smaller yet relevant items like subpar gameday experiences, misprinted/errors within gameday programs or delayed roster update, or lack of media coverage of UND football. Again, these issues are largely confronted as a byproduct of “UND is a hockey school”, but if that is the case, then don’t expect UND football to take the next step. We will be supporting (and donating) to a capped program that will forever live in mediocrity. There are ways - starting with philosophy, vision and effort, and ending with more funding, however - to elevate the program. Sitting on our collective asses and “giving it more time” is the last god damn thing that needs to be done. 
 

As for specifics on athletic department dynamics, those are questions to be asked to the athletic department leadership. I’m not the AD, I don’t know the specific structure and assignments because I do not work in the department, I just have observed some details and the subpar results for several years. 
 

Ultimately, don’t forget, the devil is in the details. 

[The Sicatoka]

15 hours ago, Goon said:

How many years for football; it would seem that wouldn’t go that far for very long: ...

$10M is less than two years of total football spending per this: https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/7ca766dd 

[jdub27]

13 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Maybe I was wrong to think you already knew how many staff members are working with the different sports and the hours spent on different sports because you tell us there are big discrepancies. When have such strong criticisms of the philosophy it stands to reason you know what the philosophy is. 
I hate to state the obvious but posting your “basic questions” on this forum isn’t going to get you your answers. 
It’s becoming clear you have made assumptions rather than base your criticisms of time spent, efforts made etc on facts. 

The problem with actually laying out specifics when critiquing is you need to know what you're talking about and you can then be held accountable when you're way off base. General complaining prevents all of that.

  

13 hours ago, iramurphy said:

I can only tell you what I know from experience. The staff involved with CC and athletics work hard. I have seen no evidence of laziness and frankly that’s a cheap shot.  I have never had any of those folks fail to respond to my questions. None of them have indicated little or no interest in football. They often have fan get togethers or tailgating at away FB games. 

Yep.

 

13 hours ago, iramurphy said:

If you imply you know all of the answers to the shortcomings of staff and departments but you can’t come up with the details it raises the question of your credibility. So what exactly is this philosophy you refer to that is so wrong? What are the staff assignments  and time commitments that you seem to know about?  

Again, see avoiding specifics and sticking to general anonymous complaining.

  

13 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Who would you like to sit down with to express your concerns?  I bet a number of folks on this forum would be willing arrange that and even sit in on that meeting to make sure they answer questions. If it’s questions about coaches performance and job security that is information that is protected by the data privacy act. 

Absolutely. I'm guessing there are even people who would make a donation in order to help set up this meeting if they got to sit in, listen and report back on how it went.

[iramurphy]

2 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

More personal critique, while skipping over the concerns that have been spelled out several times over.

The philosophy - whether implicit or explicit - is to devote majority of time to hockey, conversely limiting the time spent on football. This is obvious in more signifiant scenarios like fundraising, football specific events like watch parties for away games, communication with alumni and Champions Club members to update on goals and inquire on more specific support, package deals for away game tickets or home game tickets, etc. to more smaller yet relevant items like subpar gameday experiences, misprinted/errors within gameday programs or delayed roster update, or lack of media coverage of UND football. Again, these issues are largely confronted as a byproduct of “UND is a hockey school”, but if that is the case, then don’t expect UND football to take the next step. We will be supporting (and donating) to a capped program that will forever live in mediocrity. There are ways - starting with philosophy, vision and effort, and ending with more funding, however - to elevate the program. Sitting on our collective asses and “giving it more time” is the last god damn thing that needs to be done. 
 

As for specifics on athletic department dynamics, those are questions to be asked to the athletic department leadership. I’m not the AD, I don’t know the specific structure and assignments because I do not work in the department, I just have observed some details and the subpar results for several years. 
 

Ultimately, don’t forget, the devil is in the details. 

I’m not sure that pressing for answers about how you reached your conclusions regarding your claims and accusations is a personal critique but I can understand why you feel that way. 

I appreciate your thoughts regarding philosophy but I think what you described is your assumption based on what we can see from the outside looking in. Hockey is certainly on a different level than our other sports. I believe it is a direct result of Ralph’s donation.  The agreement which certainly sets Hockey up financially, does provide for other sports albeit not equally. The ongoing support from his foundation continues to keep hockey at the top of the priority list. It is where we want hockey to be in order to continue as a perennial hockey power. Some of that ongoing support is based on the wishes of the donor.  
That leaves major challenges for our other sports. Thus far we don’t have a mega wealthy donor to quickly solve the financial challenges for other sports.  Your opinion as to the lack of funding to get us where we need to be included a thinly veiled “personal critique” of UND staff. From your answers it seems you have made assumptions based on observations from the outside looking in. I happen to disagree. 
Im not sure there is any reason to get angry. I haven’t played or coached for many years so there are many other things more important than my favorite athletic teams. However passionate fans are important for support 

I have beaten that dead horse too long. I will discuss these issues of philosophy, unequal support, not reaching potential donors, not showing appreciation for present donors etc next time I have the opportunity. 
 

My concern for FB right now is recruiting. We can’t afford an off year if we are to move forward. 

[The Sicatoka]

18 hours ago, SiouxFan100 said:

If someone donated $10 million dollars to the football program how would you spend it?

Maintenance and upgrades to the Alerus Center: $10 million

[SuhakiYeahYeah]

30 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Maintenance and upgrades to the Alerus Center: $10 million

I bet the timing of this gave you the biggest smirk when posting this response 

[nodak651]

1 hour ago, iramurphy said:

 Hockey is certainly on a different level than our other sports. I believe it is a direct result of Ralph’s donation.  The agreement which certainly sets Hockey up financially, does provide for other sports albeit not equally. The ongoing support from his foundation continues to keep hockey at the top of the priority list. It is where we want hockey to be in order to continue as a perennial hockey power. Some of that ongoing support is based on the wishes of the donor.

I understand that the donor can donate for whatever cause they want, but I think its questionable that the usage agreement at the REA went from this:

to this:

[The Sicatoka]

47 minutes ago, SuhakiYeahYeah said:

I bet the timing of this gave you the biggest smirk when posting this response 

More of a ... 

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, iramurphy said:

Hockey is certainly on a different level than our other sports. I believe it is a direct result of Ralph’s donation.  The agreement which certainly sets Hockey up financially, does provide for other sports albeit not equally.

I agree with you. President Kennedy tried to address this but was ousted when the self-righteous Vegas hockey mogul cried to the press to allow for conviction by the court of public opinion. UND made a deal with the devil due to the dollars, and, as such, non-hockey sports have struggled ever since; particularly with the increased funding needed for DI excellence.
 

Change is needed, and we as supporters and advocates for UND football need to push for it. Chaves is not getting it done as of now, he’s appeasing and not biting the hand that feeds him. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, iramurphy said:

My concern for FB right now is recruiting. We can’t afford an off year if we are to move forward. 

Agreed, but recruiting is connected to, and made easier with, more support for UND football. We all are arguing for the same thing as UND football supporters, which is good, but we just all have a different opinions on how to go about it. We should be thankful complete and utter apathy has not sunken in … yet.

As such, I’m just quite adamant that complacency and continuing to bolster hockey is not a solution anyway you spin it. 

[nodak651]

17 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

I agree with you. President Kennedy tried to address this but was ousted when the self-righteous Vegas hockey mogul cried to the press to allow for conviction by the court of public opinion.

Now that Kennedy is no longer employed by any university, it would be interesting to listen to an interview with him about this.  Would be interesting to hear more specifics about those negotiations... 

[UND-FB-FAN]

9 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

Now that Kennedy is no longer employed by any university, it would be interesting to listen to an interview with him about this.  Would be interesting to hear more specifics about those negotiations... 

agreed, but I think we all know how it went and what he would say …

… money talks, and gf and the und community still think the Engelstads walk on water