Fenton new Summit Commish

[nodak651]

A Big East/AAC conference type split in the MVC is inevitable imo.  May take a while but at some point I think the football schools will break away.

[SIOUXFAN97]

3 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

Is that supposed to help your argument here?  I like Mankato for many reasons but I think Northern Colorado to the Big Sky serves as a great example - only send an invite if there is a guarantee of some sort that facilities will be improved, which to me means that shovels should pretty much be in the ground. 

I would want UNI first, as they wouldn't dilute recruitment and taking a program like that from the mvc would be huge for the imaging and league perception.  Dakotas, St. Thomas, Mankato, UNO, Denver would be a great cor of 8.

i guess i was pointing out that when the ship is sinking you take what you can get...

st thomas WILL be gone in less than ten years unless fenton combines the leagues and offers hockey to the tommies

kc, oral bob, omaha, denver, western illinois...all could be gone too....

[nodak651]

20 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

i guess i was pointing out that when the ship is sinking you take what you can get...

st thomas WILL be gone in less than ten years unless fenton combines the leagues and offers hockey to the tommies

kc, oral bob, omaha, denver, western illinois...all could be gone too....

Hey I was responding to a hypothetical of UNI vs Mankato.  

I agree that the departure risk is huge and I think Summit hockey is a must.

[jdub27]

9 hours ago, nodak651 said:

I agree that the departure risk is huge and I think Summit hockey is a must.

If you're going to add a sport in the hope for stability, football is a much bigger priority.
Prevents the "safety" of universities being able to go FBS and have a separate home for their Olympic sports plus there are more football sponsoring schools than hockey sponsoring.
Even if there was a Summit hockey, it would be much more likely to allow an associate member in that than it would in football, particularly since it is going to be required for almost half the current league from Day 1 (CC, WMU, Miami, Duluth SCSU). I don't see the major benefit from trying to roll the NCHC under the Summit umbrella like I would see with football.
 

[nodak651]

2 hours ago, jdub27 said:

If you're going to add a sport in the hope for stability, football is a much bigger priority.
Prevents the "safety" of universities being able to go FBS and have a separate home for their Olympic sports plus there are more football sponsoring schools than hockey sponsoring.
Even if there was a Summit hockey, it would be much more likely to allow an associate member in that than it would in football, particularly since it is going to be required for almost half the current league from Day 1 (CC, WMU, Miami, Duluth SCSU). I don't see the major benefit from trying to roll the NCHC under the Summit umbrella like I would see with football.
 

Three of the biggest flight risks are from UST, UNO, and Denver, and none have football.  There is no reason the Summit couldn't allow affiliate members to those schools because they either are D3 or D2, or they are in a FBS conference that is out of the footprint.  Having associates is a non factor if they have no ability to join the Summit for all sports.  All the Summit would have to do in regard to UNO, UST, and DU is make a rule that states existing members can't leave the Summit and remain associates in any sport.  

Football doesn't do much for keeping the core of the Summit membership together - it would be more beneficial for attracting new schools.  The goal of Summit hockey would be to retain schools.  Football members of Summit Football are just the Dakotas and WIU, and who really cares about WIU.

[jdub27]

1 hour ago, nodak651 said:

Three of the biggest flight risks are from UST, UNO, and Denver, and none have football.  There is no reason the Summit couldn't allow affiliate members to those schools because they either are D3 or D2, or they are in a FBS conference that is out of the footprint.  Having associates is a non factor if they have no ability to join the Summit for all sports.  All the Summit would have to do in regard to UNO, UST, and DU is make a rule that states existing members can't leave the Summit and remain associates in any sport.  

Football doesn't do much for keeping the core of the Summit membership together - it would be more beneficial for attracting new schools.  The goal of Summit hockey would be to retain schools.  Football members of Summit Football are just the Dakotas and WIU, and who really cares about WIU.

There isn't reallly a reason for the NCHC to be a willing participant in that and only have 3 schools currently in the Summit doesn't give the SL any leverage, especialy when the ones in the league are the ones you are trying to prevent leaving. And I think you'll have a hard time with that rule when the conference would need as many affiliates as it does.

The MVFC doesn't have a whole lot of reason either, but the SL schools do have a bit more leverage being that it is currently 5/4/1 in the Summit/MVFC/Horizon.

More or less, the difference in what you're saying and what I'm saying is which teams you are trying to protect from losing because other than UND there is no one that has both hockey and football (other than UST in the Pioneer). To me, football is a more realisitc option than hockey and it keeps the core group of the Dakota schools together and you have the ability to start enticing the 4 MVC schools while their conference is in a bit of transition and starting to look different than it previously did. Still a long shot but I think a reasonable path to explore.

[SIOUXFAN97]

how many of those mvc with football have football on life support?

indiana state and western illinois?

sounds like western could close any year and why does isu evern have football for what their results have been....

[nodak651]

4 hours ago, jdub27 said:

There isn't reallly a reason for the NCHC to be a willing participant in that and only have 3 schools currently in the Summit doesn't give the SL any leverage, especialy when the ones in the league are the ones you are trying to prevent leaving. And I think you'll have a hard time with that rule when the conference would need as many affiliates as it does.

The MVFC doesn't have a whole lot of reason either, but the SL schools do have a bit more leverage being that it is currently 5/4/1 in the Summit/MVFC/Horizon.

More or less, the difference in what you're saying and what I'm saying is which teams you are trying to protect from losing because other than UND there is no one that has both hockey and football (other than UST in the Pioneer). To me, football is a more realisitc option than hockey and it keeps the core group of the Dakota schools together and you have the ability to start enticing the 4 MVC schools while their conference is in a bit of transition and starting to look different than it previously did. Still a long shot but I think a reasonable path to explore.

Maybe DU and UNO (if they don't get selected by the MVC next week) realize that it is worth it in the long run.  By either agreeing to move the NCHC under the Summit banner, it would help to stabilize their current conference, which would make the Summit more desirable, as neither school would have to worry as much about the other leaving.  DU would like St. Thomas to stay in the Summit league, as many of their students come from the twin cities and UST has a very similar academic profile to DU.  UST is also fairly close to UNO, so UNO wanting UST to remain in the Summit makes sense for cost/geography reasons as well.  With hockey under the Summit banner, they would have a commissioner that everyone already seems to like and respect, and he would understand everything there is to know in the operation of a hockey conference - nothing much would really need to change.  Bringing UST on board for hockey would help both of these schools by stabilizing the conference (which they may understand they need to live with) and it also allows greater access to the hotbed of the twin cities for player recruitment, both for UNO/DU, and other schools in the NCHC as well.  With the conf tourney and UST both located in St. Paul, it would help with tournament attendance ($$$) and marketing also.

A Summit league with hockey would be greater than the sum of the current Summit league and NCHC.  It would be a hugely important Synergy for the conference, and yes, it would take buy-in from the conference, but that is what it takes if we want a league that's worth a damn.  Nothing worth having comes free or easy.

[SIOUXFAN97]

1 hour ago, nodak651 said:

Maybe DU and UNO (if they don't get selected by the MVC next week) realize that it is worth it in the long run.  By either agreeing to move the NCHC under the Summit banner, it would help to stabilize their current conference, which would make the Summit more desirable, as neither school would have to worry as much about the other leaving.  DU would like St. Thomas to stay in the Summit league, as many of their students come from the twin cities and UST has a very similar academic profile to DU.  UST is also fairly close to UNO, so UNO wanting UST to remain in the Summit makes sense for cost/geography reasons as well.  With hockey under the Summit banner, they would have a commissioner that everyone already seems to like and respect, and he would understand everything there is to know in the operation of a hockey conference - nothing much would really need to change.  Bringing UST on board for hockey would help both of these schools by stabilizing the conference (which they may understand they need to live with) and it also allows greater access to the hotbed of the twin cities for player recruitment, both for UNO/DU, and other schools in the NCHC as well.  With the conf tourney and UST both located in St. Paul, it would help with tournament attendance ($$$) and marketing also.

A Summit league with hockey would be greater than the sum of the current Summit league and NCHC.  It would be a hugely important Synergy for the conference, and yes, it would take buy-in from the conference, but that is what it takes if we want a league that's worth a damn.  Nothing worth having comes free or easy.

100%

[homer]

Making it easy for one school to be an affiliate member of an FBS conference for football and have a cost effective solution for their other sports does no favors to the other Summit league members.  
 

Also, the stability of the Summit is the Dakota schools.  Lose one of those and the conference is not appealing to anyone. A new commish needs to do what it takes to keep the four together.  Football does that before hockey.  

[nodak651]

3 hours ago, homer said:

Making it easy for one school to be an affiliate member of an FBS conference for football and have a cost effective solution for their other sports does no favors to the other Summit league members.  
 

Also, the stability of the Summit is the Dakota schools.  Lose one of those and the conference is not appealing to anyone. A new commish needs to do what it takes to keep the four together.  Football does that before hockey.  

Is it a binary option?  Both would take a lot of work and convincing to achieve, but I think both would be beneficial.  Why are you try to make it a competition when neither strategy really affects the other?   In regard to your football example, Summit membership wouldn't change.

[homer]

5 hours ago, nodak651 said:

Is it a binary option?  Both would take a lot of work and convincing to achieve, but I think both would be beneficial.  Why are you try to make it a competition when neither strategy really affects the other?   In regard to your football example, Summit membership wouldn't change.

If he gets both accomplished in the short term great.  I just don’t think he will have the bandwidth and think the football solution is more beneficial for the conference. It makes it more difficult for a school to find a FBS home for football only if a Summit football league is formed.  My example is based on the Summit providing a home for the sports today and football. 

[SIOUXFAN97]

what are the aspirations of augie hockey?  assuming nchc but is that ever a possibility....if it isn't are they trying to get a ccha bid...good luck with that....i just don't get it so far with augie hockey....

[FSSD]

19 minutes ago, SIOUXFAN97 said:

what are the aspirations of augie hockey?  assuming nchc but is that ever a possibility....if it isn't are they trying to get a ccha bid...good luck with that....i just don't get it so far with augie hockey....

They are building brand new on campus arena  - plus they have the backing of Stanford.  I would say that the CCHA is close to a lock.  They are already talking.

Excitement abounds as Augustana makes D-I hockey plans official with arena groundbreaking | The Rink Live

At the rink, Lucia embracing CCHA commissioner challenge | West Central Tribune (wctrib.com)

[SIOUXFAN97]

12 minutes ago, FSSD said:

They are building brand new on campus arena  - plus they have the backing of Stanford.  I would say that the CCHA is close to a lock.  They are already talking.

Excitement abounds as Augustana makes D-I hockey plans official with arena groundbreaking | The Rink Live

At the rink, Lucia embracing CCHA commissioner challenge | West Central Tribune (wctrib.com)

what happens if western mich and miami go to ccha and minny state and st thomas go to nchc? 

[FSSD]

Well, if it was up to me - I would have kicked SCSU to the curb yesterday.  I want nothing to do with that Sh!thouse of a school.  If W. Mich and Miami move to CCHA and St. Thomas and MSU want to go NCHC.  I don't see a problem.

[SIOUXFAN97]

22 hours ago, FSSD said:

Well, if it was up to me - I would have kicked SCSU to the curb yesterday.  I want nothing to do with that Sh!thouse of a school.  If W. Mich and Miami move to CCHA and St. Thomas and MSU want to go NCHC.  I don't see a problem.

if someone started a poll on here of whether the nchc should have western and miami or msu and st thomas i think it would be a landslide

[nodakvindy]

On 12/15/2021 at 5:47 PM, FSSD said:

Well, if it was up to me - I would have kicked SCSU to the curb yesterday.  I want nothing to do with that Sh!thouse of a school.  If W. Mich and Miami move to CCHA and St. Thomas and MSU want to go NCHC.  I don't see a problem.

Western clearly wants to be in the NCHC. They have committed to the program and been a solid and competitive member.  Not sure why people are trying to send them packing. Their and Miami's presence also contributes to the theory behind the league name. 

Again, I'd like to see St. Thomas contribute something other than being located in twin cities metro. Certainly in no hurry to see them in the NCHC.  

[FSSD]

43 minutes ago, nodakvindy said:

Western clearly wants to be in the NCHC. They have committed to the program and been a solid and competitive member.  Not sure why people are trying to send them packing. Their and Miami's presence also contributes to the theory behind the league name. 

Again, I'd like to see St. Thomas contribute something other than being located in twin cities metro. Certainly in no hurry to see them in the NCHC.  

It is my understanding that the new CCHA has changed things for Miami.  I believe that they would like to rejoin with Bowling Green in CCHA.  I think once UST gets the arena thing figured out they would be a perfect fit for NCHC.  I think that UST has a very motivated alumni base and would show up at the Frozen Face in MSP at the Xcel.  And they get the NCHC school back into the Twin Cities.  So, they add a lot and I don't think it will take long before they are a program to contend with...  I believe it took ASU 4 years to make the NCAA's ...   I can see UST being on that type of track.  It might take a bit longer because CCHA might have a better level of competition.  No looking to force anyone out.  But, there are changes coming soon due to NCAA changes and programs/conference may need to adjust.

[nodak651]

3 hours ago, FSSD said:

It is my understanding that the new CCHA has changed things for Miami.  I believe that they would like to rejoin with Bowling Green in CCHA.  I think once UST gets the arena thing figured out they would be a perfect fit for NCHC.  I think that UST has a very motivated alumni base and would show up at the Frozen Face in MSP at the Xcel.  And they get the NCHC school back into the Twin Cities.  So, they add a lot and I don't think it will take long before they are a program to contend with...  I believe it took ASU 4 years to make the NCAA's ...   I can see UST being on that type of track.  It might take a bit longer because CCHA might have a better level of competition.  No looking to force anyone out.  But, there are changes coming soon due to NCAA changes and programs/conference may need to adjust.

Could the frozen face off resemble the wcha tourney with st. Thomas and Mankato in the mix?  I think it could...

[fightingsioux4life]

9 hours ago, nodak651 said:

Could the frozen face off resemble the wcha tourney with st. Thomas and Mankato in the mix?  I think it could...

That would be great.

[FSSD]

11 hours ago, nodak651 said:

Could the frozen face off resemble the wcha tourney with st. Thomas and Mankato in the mix?  I think it could...

I don't think it would hurt, and I think that the corporate sales would go up given the strong business ties in the Twin City by UST alumni.

[petey23]

15 hours ago, FSSD said:

It is my understanding that the new CCHA has changed things for Miami.  I believe that they would like to rejoin with Bowling Green in CCHA.  I think once UST gets the arena thing figured out they would be a perfect fit for NCHC.  I think that UST has a very motivated alumni base and would show up at the Frozen Face in MSP at the Xcel.  And they get the NCHC school back into the Twin Cities.  So, they add a lot and I don't think it will take long before they are a program to contend with...  I believe it took ASU 4 years to make the NCAA's ...   I can see UST being on that type of track.  It might take a bit longer because CCHA might have a better level of competition.  No looking to force anyone out.  But, there are changes coming soon due to NCAA changes and programs/conference may need to adjust.

Bowling Green wants in the NCHC

[FSSD]

6 hours ago, petey23 said:

Bowling Green wants in the NCHC

Interesting, I could have sworn that Miami was rumored as looking to potentially leave but W. Michigan was saying no.  I remember reading that the NCHC looked at WM, SCSU and BG after Notre Dame pulled out when the conference was first started.  That lead to WM, and SCSU joining the conference.  But, I have not read much since then about BG.  I guess it just wasn't on my radar.

[FSSD]

On 12/17/2021 at 6:24 PM, FSSD said:

Interesting, I could have sworn that Miami was rumored as looking to potentially leave but W. Michigan was saying no.  I remember reading that the NCHC looked at WM, SCSU and BG after Notre Dame pulled out when the conference was first started.  That lead to WM, and SCSU joining the conference.  But, I have not read much since then about BG.  I guess it just wasn't on my radar.

Interesting read today:

Between the Lines: Midseason Report : College Hockey News

If this happens, it may finally be the push for Miami and Western Michigan to go to the more geographically-centered CCHA. Miami has been the school more willing to do this over the years, but WMU has been reluctant. However, WMU will have a new athletic director soon, and has a new head coach, so this could change.

This article has hints of smoke around the Summit League.  Again, interesting stuff will it come true who knows.