Illinois State @ UND 11/13/21

[UND-FB-FAN]

2 hours ago, nodak651 said:

He's no Quinton Patterson.  I agree with siouxfan512 - looks like average QB speed with but with above average toughness/effort.  Wasn't Joe Mollberg supposed to be a mobile qb as well?  I remember him being way slower than I expected as well, given the hype.  Given that Vaugn is supposed to have a stronger arm, has he had the chance to throw ANY deep balls?  I don't recall any, which is crazy considering the d usually expects a running play.

Quincy Patterson can run but obviously couldn’t pass worth a damn. QB position still requires decision making and passing accuracy far before running ability and arm strength, which I suppose is why Schuster gets the nod over Vaughn. With all that said, the best CFB teams often have a QB that can do a little bit of everything - it’s the way contemporary football is played. I think some around UND football and this board still expect the game to be played like it was in the 1990s. Playing a brick foot quarterback won’t get the job done. 
 

As for Vaughn, he can move and has a bigger arm than Schuster, that I am certain; but if you can’t pass accurately or make good decisions with the ball, you can’t start. 

[nodak651]

2 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Quincy Patterson can run but obviously couldn’t pass worth a damn. QB position still requires decision making and passing accuracy far before running ability and arm strength, which I suppose is why Schuster gets the nod over Vaughn. With all that said, the best CFB teams often have a QB that can do a little bit of everything - it’s the way contemporary football is played. I think some around UND football and this board still expect the game to be played like it was in the 1990s. Playing a brick foot quarterback won’t get the job done. 
 

As for Vaughn, he can move and has a bigger arm than Schuster, that I am certain; but if you can’t pass accurately or make good decisions with the ball, you can’t start. 

I agree for the most part, but completely disagree the he's brick footed.  He does an amazing job of moving around in the pocket.  No matter the offensive scheme, taking as few sacks as he has while throwing the ball as often as we do is impressive.  

[nodak651]

2 hours ago, Midwestern Hawk said:

The OL can always be better, but when do you think we will have a better OL than we had last spring?  We won't until we get to the next level as a program.  As the spring season wore on the DC's figured out how to defend Tommy and our offense and IMO we are still struggling on offense.

 

Within the next year or two.  I don't think our OL was good in the spring.  It was solid, about average for a mvfc team, imo.  

[GoodGood]

I don’t remember, what did our offense look like first year under Danny with Ketteringham? Were we constantly throwing short of the sticks? I know our primary WRs had a little bit of a different build but no true guy with speed downfield 

[UND-FB-FAN]

39 minutes ago, GoodGood said:

I don’t remember, what did our offense look like first year under Danny with Ketteringham? Were we constantly throwing short of the sticks? I know our primary WRs had a little bit of a different build but no true guy with speed downfield 

2019: und offense was all about throwing the ball, no running game. There were minimal deep shots, again due to lack of personnel capable of doing that, but Toivonen and Wanzek were great mid-range possession receivers. 2019 avg per pass attempt actually less than in 2021. With 2020 (spring 2021) and 2021, major difference is improved running game with Otis Weah. 
 

2019: 262 passing ypg, avg 6.69 per pass attempt; 121.8 rushing ypg, avg 4.2 per rush attempt. 

2021: 242 passing ypg, avg 6.92 per pass attempt, 168.2 rushing ypg, avg 5 per rush attempt

 

[F'n Hawks]

1 minute ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

2019: und offense was all about throwing the ball, no running game. There were minimal deep shots, again due to lack of personnel capable of doing that, but Toivonen and Wanzek were great mid-range possession receivers. 2019 avg per pass attempt actually less than in 2021. With 2020 (spring 2021) and 2021, major difference is improved running game with Otis Weah. 
 

2019: 262 passing ypg, avg 6.69 per pass attempt; 121.8 rushing ypg, avg 4.2 per rush attempt. 

2021: 242 passing ypg, avg 6.92 per pass attempt, 168.2 rushing ypg, avg 5 per rush attempt

 

Could you find redzone numbers? We’ve been terrible this year and I wonder if 2019 was any different

[UND-FB-FAN]

1 hour ago, nodak651 said:

I agree for the most part, but completely disagree the he's brick footed.  He does an amazing job of moving around in the pocket.  No matter the offensive scheme, taking as few sacks as he has while throwing the ball as often as we do is impressive.  

Bit of hyperbole with “amazing” job in the packet. The scheme is one based on quick passing game, limiting defenses ability to get a sack. Schuster is perhaps not “brick foot” for what it is worth, but he’s not mobile either in my opinion. 

[Nodak78]

52 minutes ago, GoodGood said:

I don’t remember, what did our offense look like first year under Danny with Ketteringham? Were we constantly throwing short of the sticks? I know our primary WRs had a little bit of a different build but no true guy with speed downfield 

Intercept king

[Nodak78]

2 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Bit of hyperbole with “amazing” job in the packet. The scheme is one based on quick passing game, limiting defenses ability to get a sack. Schuster is perhaps not “brick foot” for what it is worth, but he’s not mobile either in my opinion. 

You are picking up pretty good.  

[UND-FB-FAN]

9 minutes ago, F'n Hawks said:

Could you find redzone numbers? We’ve been terrible this year and I wonder if 2019 was any different

2019 red zone offense was much better than 2021. 2020 (spring 2021) the best, and, as one would expect, best team result wise. 

2019: 35 red zone attempts, 33 scores, 25 touchdowns. 71% touchdown conversion. 

2020: 25 red zone attempts, 22 scores, 20 touchdowns. 80% touchdown conversion 

2021: 46 red zone attempts, 31 scores, 24 touchdowns. 52% touchdown conversion

[UND-FB-FAN]

11 minutes ago, Nodak78 said:

Intercept king

2019: Ketteringham 16 TDs to 10 interceptions. 

Not quite “intercept king” or whatever but okay then …

[UND-FB-FAN]

4 minutes ago, F'n Hawks said:

Found it

 2019: 33-35 scoring in redzone, 25-35 on TD’s

Yes. Unfortunately, this season, UND only scores a TD on 52% of trips. Not good.

[UND-FB-FAN]

13 minutes ago, Nodak78 said:

You are picking up pretty good.  

?

[Sioux94]

2 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Yes. Unfortunately, this season, UND only scores a TD on 52% of trips. Not good.

I think everyone would agree Red Zone has been absolutely horrible, numbers I hope we never see again. Think the two biggest factors are almost zero ability to run the ball up the middle once we get inside the 10-15 yard line. Also I think I saw we have 7 red zone turnovers this year, that is brutal. 

[Nodak78]

2 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

2019: Ketteringham 16 TDs to 10 interceptions. 

Not quite “intercept king” or whatever but okay then …

Yes he was.  Killed many drives with deep throw while he ran around it just got sacked.

[SiouxFan100]

Let’s just go out with a bang and beat the bunnies for shits and giggles 

[UND-FB-FAN]

11 hours ago, Nodak78 said:

Yes he was.  Killed many drives with deep throw while he ran around it just got sacked.

In 2019, with Ketteringham, UND scored a TD on 71% of redzone trips (overall scored on 33/35 trips). This season, with Schuster, UND only scoring a TD on trips in redzone 52% of the time (overall scored on only 31/46 trips). Crazy how once a narrative starts, people just roll with it and don't form an opinion for themselves.

If Ketteringham was so tough on drives, supposedly, what does that make Schuster? 

[gfhockey]

1 minute ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

In 2019, with Ketteringham, UND scored a TD on 71% of redzone trips (overall scored on 33/35 trips). This season, with Schuster, UND only scoring a TD on trips in redzone 52% of the time (overall scored on only 31/46 trips). Crazy how once a narrative starts, people just roll with it and don't form an opinion for themselves.

If Ketteringham was so tough on drives, supposedly, what does that make Schuster? 

What about j swag bradley

[UND08]

14 hours ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

2019 red zone offense was much better than 2021. 2020 (spring 2021) the best, and, as one would expect, best team result wise. 

2019: 35 red zone attempts, 33 scores, 25 touchdowns. 71% touchdown conversion. 

2020: 25 red zone attempts, 22 scores, 20 touchdowns. 80% touchdown conversion 

2021: 46 red zone attempts, 31 scores, 24 touchdowns. 52% touchdown conversion

These 2021 numbers are absolutely putrid...no way around that!  I saw someone put it on Schuster...how many red zone interceptions has he thrown?  It's an honest question...as we seem to fumble a lot inside the 20 (Maag has been particularly prone).

It's a team sport...and there's plenty of blame to go around...whether it be skill players not hanging on to the football, quarterbacks making bad decisions, a scheme that's easier to stop when space gets tight, or an offensive line that can't grind out the tough yards when everyone in the building knows what's coming.  It needs to be significantly better next year...or we'll have a record that's likely worse than 5-5 at this point in the 2022 season.

[Nodak78]

39 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

In 2019, with Ketteringham, UND scored a TD on 71% of redzone trips (overall scored on 33/35 trips). This season, with Schuster, UND only scoring a TD on trips in redzone 52% of the time (overall scored on only 31/46 trips). Crazy how once a narrative starts, people just roll with it and don't form an opinion for themselves.

If Ketteringham was so tough on drives, supposedly, what does that make Schuster? 

OL. Is the big difference.

[UND1983]

Through 10 games we have made it into the red zone almost twice as much as in 2019, but aren't getting into the end zone at the same rate.  You guys are right, I would rather run 3 toss plays for 5 yards and punt than make it all the way down the field and not score.  Expert analysis.

[UND-FB-FAN]

6 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Through 10 games we have made it into the red zone almost twice as much as in 2019, but aren't getting into the end zone at the same rate.  You guys are right, I would rather run 3 toss plays for 5 yards and punt than make it all the way down the field and not score.  Expert analysis.

46 is almost twice as much as 35? Interesting 

And no fan of UND is advocating for 3 plays and a punt, but nice try (straw man fail). 

[Oxbow6]

2 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Through 10 games we have made it into the red zone almost twice as much as in 2019, but aren't getting into the end zone at the same rate.  You guys are right, I would rather run 3 toss plays for 5 yards and punt than make it all the way down the field and not score.  Expert analysis.

But are we OK continually punting from inside our opponents 40??

[UND-FB-FAN]

4 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

But are we OK continually punting from inside our opponents 40??

Staple of the Bubba philosophy, but, hey, when you’re winning, you can go for it from your own 20…

[UND1983]

10 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

46 is almost twice as much as 35? Interesting 

And no fan of UND is advocating for 3 plays and a punt, but nice try (straw man fail). 

I was looking at 2020, my fault.  Point stands, however.  If you would rather have them punt then actually get there, like in 2019 then you do you.  We all would love for them to convert more but look squarely as fumbles, along with penalties possibly and average OL play, along with some untimely INT's.