UND1983 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 3 hours ago, OgieOgilthorpe said: GF kids leaving for EGF is pretty rare. This Season is the first time I can recall it happening in quite a while What about all the 'name' hockey families that happened to live over there in the first place, though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, yzerman19 said: Oh man- this is a huge debate topic across the hockey world right now. As a former coach and now just the dad of an elite 10U player (Brick player) I’ve been neck deep in it for awhile. My coaching philosophy was always to avoid the labeling of players in 8U and 10U. Obviously there are kids who are naturally (or trained) better hockey players, at young ages, but there are more kids who aren’t but could leapfrog down the road...puberty is the ultimate arbiter and development trajectories are neither linear nor consistently sloped. So, you have to balance things to try and 1. Keep kids in love with the game and having fun and 2. Helping each kid develop to the best of their ability at any given time. At 8U you have some kids working on single skate reverse edge pivots and some learning to stop. In games at 8U we used to make gentleman’s agreements with the other coaches to set lines as A and B and stack line A. We’d then only run A vs A and B vs B. We focused on fun and skill. Lots of small area games, so lots of puck touches for everyone. This approach helped both the advanced players and the less advanced players. 10U things get more complicated, because an advanced 10 year old has likely been skating for 6 (or more) years and been playing hockey for 4 or 5. The difference between the advanced and not is huge. Especially if the game is played on a full 200 foot sheet. Many coaches in this zone start to be corrupted by the allure of taking the best skaters and “stacking”. they start to emphasize winning and can’t resist coaching Full positions and a basic system. They de-emphasize individual skill development and emphasize the team concept. As hockey is the ultimate team game, they cut any weaker skaters to avoid a weak link. The result is big wins and fuels the misguided thinking. On the flip, those who stay the course feel the opposite, as the unstacked, puck touch, skill-focused teams lose repeatedly. Now at 12U and absolutely at 14U the focus should start to move towards the team concept and top kids. 10U is just too young based on the science of physical and cognitive development. I am not an apologist dad upset about losing. I have a kid that playing in this approach has helped to become one of the top 2010s on the continent. As a team, we lose a lot to top Teams in AAA programs in the US and Canada, it sucks, but it is teaching a lot to my kid- about hockey AND life. When we move to a stacked roster and team concept at 12U/14U he will be better prepared with individual skills and creativity and be of the right cognitive age to put it into a team concept and structure. Bottom line is stacking and coaching to win at 10U might fuel some egos, but it won’t help a kid play D1 and it might prevent another kid from playing D1 down the road. All that said, there is nothing wrong with exposure to a little mix. The best players can and probably should play with other top players and get exposed to some team concept stuff- but do that in the spring/summer with a couple tournament teams or camps- not for the regular season. Did you just tell us that your son is one of the best 10 years old on the continent? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, UND1983 said: Did you just tell us that your son is one of the best 10 years old on the continent? If that’s what you’re taking from that long post, my point was missed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yote 53 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Whatever happened to Team North Dakota Tier 1 Before and After program? They haven't fielded teams the last two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen4sioux Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, Yote 53 said: Whatever happened to Team North Dakota Tier 1 Before and After program? They haven't fielded teams the last two years. They do, know some kids that played last fall and will again here this spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND1983 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, yzerman19 said: If that’s what you’re taking from that long post, my point was missed... I don't care about your post at all. I am more interested in your statement about your son's ranking amongst 10U hockey players in North America (and perhaps the world?). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yote 53 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Didn't know that. They don't show up on any of the national rankings and they must not be a national tournament bound team because Sioux Falls has gotten a pass to nationals the last couple of years out of the Northern Plains district. I thought the program had folded. Suppose I could have just Googled it to find out. Edit: I did Google it and see only the 14U team is playing Sioux Falls for a spot at Nationals. 16U and 18U are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scpa0305 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 6 hours ago, yzerman19 said: Oh man- this is a huge debate topic across the hockey world right now. As a former coach and now just the dad of an elite 10U player (Brick player) I’ve been neck deep in it for awhile. My coaching philosophy was always to avoid the labeling of players in 8U and 10U. Obviously there are kids who are naturally (or trained) better hockey players, at young ages, but there are more kids who aren’t but could leapfrog down the road...puberty is the ultimate arbiter and development trajectories are neither linear nor consistently sloped. So, you have to balance things to try and 1. Keep kids in love with the game and having fun and 2. Helping each kid develop to the best of their ability at any given time. At 8U you have some kids working on single skate reverse edge pivots and some learning to stop. In games at 8U we used to make gentleman’s agreements with the other coaches to set lines as A and B and stack line A. We’d then only run A vs A and B vs B. We focused on fun and skill. Lots of small area games, so lots of puck touches for everyone. This approach helped both the advanced players and the less advanced players. 10U things get more complicated, because an advanced 10 year old has likely been skating for 6 (or more) years and been playing hockey for 4 or 5. The difference between the advanced and not is huge. Especially if the game is played on a full 200 foot sheet. Many coaches in this zone start to be corrupted by the allure of taking the best skaters and “stacking”. they start to emphasize winning and can’t resist coaching Full positions and a basic system. They de-emphasize individual skill development and emphasize the team concept. As hockey is the ultimate team game, they cut any weaker skaters to avoid a weak link. The result is big wins and fuels the misguided thinking. On the flip, those who stay the course feel the opposite, as the unstacked, puck touch, skill-focused teams lose repeatedly. Now at 12U and absolutely at 14U the focus should start to move towards the team concept and top kids. 10U is just too young based on the science of physical and cognitive development. I am not an apologist dad upset about losing. I have a kid that playing in this approach has helped to become one of the top 2010s on the continent. As a team, we lose a lot to top Teams in AAA programs in the US and Canada, it sucks, but it is teaching a lot to my kid- about hockey AND life. When we move to a stacked roster and team concept at 12U/14U he will be better prepared with individual skills and creativity and be of the right cognitive age to put it into a team concept and structure. Bottom line is stacking and coaching to win at 10U might fuel some egos, but it won’t help a kid play D1 and it might prevent another kid from playing D1 down the road. All that said, there is nothing wrong with exposure to a little mix. The best players can and probably should play with other top players and get exposed to some team concept stuff- but do that in the spring/summer with a couple tournament teams or camps- not for the regular season. Did you just call your 9 year old elite? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 10 hours ago, OgieOgilthorpe said: GF kids leaving for EGF is pretty rare. This Season is the first time I can recall it happening in quite a while Slightly different, but the last two years they've had GF kids that went juniors and then weren't allowed to play for GF so went to EGF. One was the goalie this year and he still had to sit out last year per some ban Red River put on him. I might've messed that up though as heard the news a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 44 minutes ago, scpa0305 said: Did you just call your 9 year old elite? It’s the standard tournament classification 1. Elite 2. AAA 3. AA 4. A As I stated earlier, if that’s what you took from my post my point was missed. My reference to my own kid was intended to create an understanding, and frame of reference. In particular, that I am not a sour grapes parent upset that little Johnny isn’t winning, developing or getting ice time. It was intended to add credibility to the broader message. Summation is my kid and I could not be happier with the outcome of the model I describe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yzerman19 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 This is why the internet sucks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scpa0305 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 3 hours ago, yzerman19 said: It’s the standard tournament classification 1. Elite 2. AAA 3. AA 4. A As I stated earlier, if that’s what you took from my post my point was missed. My reference to my own kid was intended to create an understanding, and frame of reference. In particular, that I am not a sour grapes parent upset that little Johnny isn’t winning, developing or getting ice time. It was intended to add credibility to the broader message. Summation is my kid and I could not be happier with the outcome of the model I describe. No I got it. I completely agree with most of what you wrote. It was just the “one of the better kids on the continent” comment. I mean i get it brick tourney is a tough tourney to get into but you also have to have the $. There are a ton of his who choose not to go, especially here in MN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 Williston is pushing for a multivenue ice complex. https://www.willistonherald.com/news/business/power-play-project-looks-to-bring-multi-million-dollar-hockey/article_f2c3b7c8-4871-11ea-b091-0714cafa2979.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpaw Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 On 3/7/2020 at 3:06 AM, SiouxVolley said: Williston is pushing for a multivenue ice complex. https://www.willistonherald.com/news/business/power-play-project-looks-to-bring-multi-million-dollar-hockey/article_f2c3b7c8-4871-11ea-b091-0714cafa2979.html Can a two-year college go NCAA D1? I'm sure that's right around the corner now that they have a venue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux rube Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 On 3/6/2020 at 4:08 PM, yzerman19 said: It’s the standard tournament classification 1. Elite 2. AAA 3. AA 4. A As I stated earlier, if that’s what you took from my post my point was missed. My reference to my own kid was intended to create an understanding, and frame of reference. In particular, that I am not a sour grapes parent upset that little Johnny isn’t winning, developing or getting ice time. It was intended to add credibility to the broader message. Summation is my kid and I could not be happier with the outcome of the model I describe. Has UND contacted you yet? I kid of course but good for your son. Maybe someday we will see him in a UND Jersey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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