Coach Jones?

[fightingsioux4life]

5 minutes ago, jdub27 said:

Congrats for completely missing the point. Just because you give your opinion, doesn't mean you are some sort of martyr and that "you are the bad guy and tell it like it is". You are doing just that and nothing more: giving your opinion. And in doing so, you should expect others to do the same and there is no need to get all worked up when someone doesn't agree with you. Different people have different perspectives and those opinions are often based on different information. I flat out stated, everyone should have their own opinions but there is a lot more to situations and when people refuse to consider those things, it makes their opinion carry a lot less weight with people because it gives the appearance of a pitchfork mob that has one goal in mind with no regards for anything else.

Mussman's contract buyout didn't come during the middle of a enormous budget issues plus there were private funds that helped fund it. The situations are completely different and if you can't acknowledge that, than you are again ignoring the realities of real life that they people who are paid to make these decisions deal with. There is no comparison to budget issues from this past year to 3+ years ago.

I'm not sure who your comment about expectations for the program is directed at but I don't believe anyone has said that is their expectation on an ongoing basis.

The warning signs with Muss were there long before the disasterous 2013 season that finally ended that regime. I will acknowledge I was slow getting onto the Fire Muss bandwagon; Darrell saw it coming way earlier than I did.

Having different opinions and different perspectives is fine. But I have noticed that the "all positive, all the time" people are given more tolerance for their opinions, while those of us that think it is important to point out negative aspects of our programs are barely tolerated on this forum. That is what I meant by being "the bad guy". I don't make things personal on here and I don't tell people to shut up (except the FU and Goofer trolls), but I have been told (either explicitly or implicitly) to shut up on several occasions. So I guess that could be construed as "martyrdom", although I don't consider myself a martyr; these are 1st world problems after all.

[southpaw]

12 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

The warning signs with Muss were there long before the disasterous 2013 season that finally ended that regime. I will acknowledge I was slow getting onto the Fire Muss bandwagon; Darrell saw it coming way earlier than I did.

 

When you start a "Fire Coach XX" as soon as they have one subpar season you're bound to eventually be right.  No coach lasts forever.

It's just like SiouxVolley.  When he throws 1,000 "predictions" at the wall, eventually one will stick and we'll all get to hear about it for years to come.

[UND-1]

We all know what his record is and what the team has accomplished over the years.  What it comes down to at this point, 10 years later, is that it seems a decent amount of the UND fans just don't like Jones.  He is not a very likeable guy from an outsiders view, IMO.  It is what it is - call it human nature.  And we all know how that goes.

IMO, Jones could go to the Dance this year and if he started out 3-5 next year the same people would want him fired.  

For those of us that have actually followed the team longer than 2-3 years, the program is stale.  No buzz, same people in crowd every year, etc.  

[gfhockey]

Half his wins are against non d-1 competitokn

[petey23]

1 hour ago, darell1976 said:

How about a 20 win season, 19 was his best in 2010-11 GWC days, and 17 is his best in the Big Sky. 

Really more concerned about conference performance in a 1 bid league.

Do I want us to have a signature win...sure

Would 20 wins be  nice....sure

Should have added, no less than reaching semi-finals in Big Sky tournament.

In a round about way, my expectation is 18-19 wins at the end of the regular season so minimum expectations in the Big Sky tournament put us at 20+

[iluvdebbies]

4 minutes ago, gfhockey said:

Half his wins are against non d-1 competitokn

I think I agree with what you just said.

[ArtVandalay]

2 hours ago, darell1976 said:

This is what Art said: 

I bolded the point of comparing that to Mussman's highlight season, the 2011 GWFC title, which isn't saying much when you look at what Bubba did this year, and just think what a Jonesless team may accomplish (hopefully in the 17-18 season). 

Wait a minute Darrell. This implies that you want the team to fail this year so Jones can get whacked. This contradicts what you said earlier about being a big fan and wanting the team to have great success this year. 

[darell1976]

38 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Wait a minute Darrell. This implies that you want the team to fail this year so Jones can get whacked. This contradicts what you said earlier about being a big fan and wanting the team to have great success this year. 

No it isn't. It says every year we have around .500 record and no hardware in the 10 years of him being here. Bubba shows up gets the team well above .500 and is polishing the nice BSC trophy in just his 3rd season.

[southpaw]

3 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

No it isn't. It says every year we have around .500 record and no hardware in the 10 years of him being here. Bubba shows up gets the team well above .500 and is polishing the nice BSC trophy in just his 3rd season.

Actually, it says you're hopeful the team will be without Jones next year.  The only way UND is without Jones next year is if the team fails.  Thus, you're hoping the team fails so Jones is gone next year.

[Siouxphan27]

2 minutes ago, southpaw said:

Actually, it says you're hopeful the team will be without Jones next year.  The only way UND is without Jones next year is if the team fails.  Thus, you're hoping the team fails so Jones is gone next year.

Not necessarily true.....  He could take us all the way to the Final Four and get hired away.....said no one, ever.

[darell1976]

2 hours ago, jdub27 said:

The problem is you always seem to be the loudest voice and have continuously showed no regard for actual realities of the situation. You make a decision that a coach needs to go, start a thread (at least 3 different ones for 2 different coaches) and then seem to pop up almost every time that the team loses and say nothing when they are performing well. Yes, there are others, but as I've stated before, the squeakiest wheel gets the grease. The latter part of my statement is the part that probably bothers people the most. It is one thing to have an opinion that a coach needs to go or , its another to continue to rail on and on how a change needs to be made immediately when the financial and logistical realities of the situation don't allow for it and you seemingly absolutely refuse to acknowledge them. The perception is that it has almost become personal and you need the coach to be fired to be vindicated. While I highly doubt that is the case as I do believe you have the best interest of UND in mind with your criticism, there are a lot more factors and it is much more complicated than overall W-L records whether anyone likes it or not. Mistaking that for blindly supporting a coach is a line that fails to be grasped sometimes. The majority here want what is best for UND. Some posters on here have more knowledge of situations than you might think, which is something to consider when their opinions might not match yours.

Take for example my comment about you refusing to acknowledge what ArtVandalay said being true about where Jones has finished in the conference the last 5 years and how it compares pretty well with almost any other team (along with me also acknowledging what you said was also true). Even after I specifically stated you did that, you still refused to acknowledge it.

Before you try to go there, I'm not stating that he shouldn't be on the hot seat. My guess is that budget issues played into him still coaching here this year, the optics of having to buy out a coach's contract, regardless of size, while the rest of the University is cutting funds left and right aren't great. Him not having an extension would also make it pretty obvious he is coaching for his job, though I'm not sure where the bar has been set, but my guess is fairly high.

You mentioned budget problems, they somehow found money to fund all sports currently not cut, they could've found money to replace Jones. I think they were waiting for an improvement which never came, just like Muss after 2011. It doesn't matter anything short of a dance trip and I think we see a new coach next season.

[darell1976]

5 minutes ago, southpaw said:

Actually, it says you're hopeful the team will be without Jones next year.  The only way UND is without Jones next year is if the team fails.  Thus, you're hoping the team fails so Jones is gone next year.

Quote

and just think what a Jonesless team may accomplish (hopefully in the 17-18 season)

If Jones takes this team to the dance thats great, but history is proving another .500 season and a loss in the first game of the CIT. Do I want this team to fail no, but I am not on Stubhub buying dance tickets. 

[darell1976]

5 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said:

Not necessarily true.....  He could take us all the way to the Final Four and get hired away.....said no one, ever.

Only if Hoops44's dream of Coach K coming to UND would we end up in the Final Four.

[darell1976]

2 hours ago, southpaw said:

When you start a "Fire Coach XX" as soon as they have one subpar season you're bound to eventually be right.  No coach lasts forever.

It's just like SiouxVolley.  When he throws 1,000 "predictions" at the wall, eventually one will stick and we'll all get to hear about it for years to come.

I started the Fire muss thread at the beginning of the 2011 season after the blowout loss to Idaho, yes they won the GWFC title, and its not like UND was kicking butt against DI opponents, after all they lost to Sioux Falls. Fire Jones was made in the middle of the 2013-14 season, and nothing much to talk about any successes since then. Except no losses to non DI teams (unlike Muss). 

[jdub27]

2 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

You mentioned budget problems, they somehow found money to fund all sports currently not cut, they could've found money to replace Jones.

So you think they could have just "found" an additional $200K and it is just that easy?

[darell1976]

Just now, jdub27 said:

So you think they could have just "found" an additional $200K and it is just that easy?

Universities have a way to "find" money. Just when we thought more sports were getting cut they "found" money to save them. 

[UNDhoops]

this has to be Jones's last year. He gets talent to grand forks and they usually defend well enough but they shouldn't have 10 minute stretches every game where they couldn't score at a UND hockey party with jon toews's dick 

[darell1976]

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/article/und-extends-contract-mens-basketball-coach

Quote

UND Athletic Director Brian Faison says in a statement that Jones "has a clear blueprint for this program and the results are showing."

Yes Brian the results are sure showing.

[hoops44]

13 minutes ago, UNDhoops said:

this has to be Jones's last year. He gets talent to grand forks and they usually defend well enough but they shouldn't have 10 minute stretches every game where they couldn't score at a UND hockey party with jon toews's dick 

does not get Weber or Montana talent....never get grad transfer talent, almost  gets D1 transfers

[fightingsioux4life]

1 minute ago, hoops44 said:

does not get Weber or Montana talent....never get grad transfer talent, almost  gets D1 transfers

Well, recruiting is also on the head coach and his staff, so......nice try.

[UND-1]

33 minutes ago, UNDhoops said:

this has to be Jones's last year. He gets talent to grand forks and they usually defend well enough but they shouldn't have 10 minute stretches every game where they couldn't score at a UND hockey party with jon toews's dick 

Have seen you praise their defense several times.  Not quite sure why, though?  It's definitely not consistent defense.

[hoops44]

25 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

Well, recruiting is also on the head coach and his staff, so......nice try.

so what genius... they do not get Kentucky talent either ....if you do not take you meds ...you will also blame jones for that ...

[fightingsioux4life]

1 minute ago, hoops44 said:

so what genius... they do not get Kentucky talent either ....if you do not take you meds ...you will also blame jones for that ...

Taking personal cheap-shots at me won't help you win the argument.

[UNDhoops]

43 minutes ago, UND-1 said:

Have seen you praise their defense several times.  Not quite sure why, though?  It's definitely not consistent defense.

i dont know if praise is the right word, and agree it isn't consistent, but they've only finished lower than 5th in the league once and are usually even better than that (though like i said the great west stats should be taken with a grain of salt)

[UNDhoops]

1 hour ago, hoops44 said:

does not get Weber or Montana talent....never get grad transfer talent, almost  gets D1 transfers

we will have to agree to disagree on not getting weber or montana talent. maybe not year in and year out like they do, but often enough to where they should be competing every year.