Coach Jones?

[Oxbow6]

35 minutes ago, Irish said:

UND and its fans have an incredible tolerance for mediocrity for everything but Mens Hockey.  Think of where the football program would be, for example, if Muss was canned after the Sioux Falls fiasco.  Jones has had 10 years to show us what he can do.  How much longer should we wait?

#siouxhockeyrules

[F'n Hawks]

1 hour ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Talent is only part of the issue (nevertheless, Jones is the one who recruited that 'talent'). Some of the best college basketball teams in recent years, such as Bo Ryan's Wisconsin teams, were not filled with talent but rather played together as a team and played fundamental defense. Saul Phillips - who came from that same Bo Ryan coaching tree - implemented fundamental, disciplined basketball at NDSU and look at the results they had (big wins [Wisconsin, Notre Dame], 2x NCAA tournament appearances, win vs. Oklahoma in NCAA tournament, etc.). 

UND needs someone who is more fundamentally-sound in terms of coaching. That is not Jones. Jones does not scream discipline; in fact, he could use some discipline himself with his embarrassing sideline antics. At UND's level of football and basketball, coaches need to be able to DEVELOP TALENT, because UND is not going to get top talent. Those midwest players go to Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State, etc. Instead, you need kids who have moderate to above average talent with GREAT WORK-ETHIC and then you mold those kids into winners which can eventually overcome those aforementioned BIG 10 recruits. Jones doesn't appear to be able to do that. He hasn't showed it yet, because everyone who has supported Jones defends him with the deficient talent argument; however, that is counter-intuitive when it comes to low-major DI basketball here at UND. 

The budget situation is certainly unfortunate, and for that reason, Jones will get to coach for UND during the 2016-2017 campaign; however, I do not think he should be given a blind extension. Let him earn that extension next season with all that 'talent' he will have. In fact, I'm more interested in how this team DEVELOPS or doesn't develop over the off-season; the status quo should not be acceptable. Many players this season were freshmen playing their first season of college basketball - those players SHOULD improve if provided the proper teaching.  

That's why Bubba is great for UND athletics, he recruits high- character guys that are willing to work hard. Jones can recruit talent, but that will only get you so far.

[ArtVandalay]

1 hour ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

Talent is only part of the issue (nevertheless, Jones is the one who recruited that 'talent'). Some of the best college basketball teams in recent years, such as Bo Ryan's Wisconsin teams, were not filled with talent but rather played together as a team and played fundamental defense. Saul Phillips - who came from that same Bo Ryan coaching tree - implemented fundamental, disciplined basketball at NDSU and look at the results they had (big wins [Wisconsin, Notre Dame], 2x NCAA tournament appearances, win vs. Oklahoma in NCAA tournament, etc.). 

UND needs someone who is more fundamentally-sound in terms of coaching. That is not Jones. Jones does not scream discipline; in fact, he could use some discipline himself with his embarrassing sideline antics. At UND's level of football and basketball, coaches need to be able to DEVELOP TALENT, because UND is not going to get top talent. Those midwest players go to Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State, etc. Instead, you need kids who have moderate to above average talent with GREAT WORK-ETHIC and then you mold those kids into winners which can eventually overcome those aforementioned BIG 10 recruits. Jones doesn't appear to be able to do that. He hasn't showed it yet, because everyone who has supported Jones defends him with the deficient talent argument; however, that is counter-intuitive when it comes to low-major DI basketball here at UND. 

The budget situation is certainly unfortunate, and for that reason, Jones will get to coach for UND during the 2016-2017 campaign; however, I do not think he should be given a blind extension. Let him earn that extension next season with all that 'talent' he will have. In fact, I'm more interested in how this team DEVELOPS or doesn't develop over the off-season; the status quo should not be acceptable. Many players this season were freshmen playing their first season of college basketball - those players SHOULD improve if provided the proper teaching.  

Bo Ryan's "no talent" team had 2 first round draft picks last year. 

[Oxbow6]

23 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Bo Ryan's "no talent" team had 2 first round draft picks last year. 

.......and BJ team this team has none. He has never had any. Terrible anology.

[ArtVandalay]

2 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

.......and BJ team this sean has none. He has never had any. Terrible anology.

Good Luck with this response. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

32 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Bo Ryan's "no talent" team had 2 first round draft picks last year. 

How many draft picks did Bo Ryan have over his 15 seasons (364–130) at Wisconsin? 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/2015/story/_/id/12594145/wisconsin-badgers-coach-bo-ryan-ability-develop-players-transcends-all-teams

Quote

It's unfair and inaccurate to suggest Ryan recruits only overlooked two- and three-star recruits. Devin Harriswas Wisconsin's Mr. Basketball, who committed to former coach Dick Bennett. But he blossomed into an NBA first-round draft pick under Ryan. Brian Butch was a McDonald's All American selection. Jon Leuerwas a top-100 prospect who now plays for the Memphis Grizzlies. Dekker, a five-star recruit, would have been on every powerhouse's wish list had he not decided to commit to Wisconsin after his sophomore season in high school.

On this season's team, Nigel Hayes was a top-100 prospect before he arrived, and North Carolina's Roy Williams expressed his admiration for Bronson Koenig, whom he recruited in high school, during the buildup to last week's Wisconsin-North Carolina meeting in the Sweet 16.

But most of those athletes were local products who wanted to play for the Badgers and stay home. Ryan has built his legacy on the under-the-radar types who've developed into elite performers.

Alando Tucker wasn't a nationally coveted recruit, but he left Wisconsin as an All-American and NBA draftee. Jordan Taylor and Mike Bruesewitz led the Badgers to the Sweet 16 in 2012. Traevon Jackson was ranked 68th among shooting guards in the 2011 recruiting class per RecruitingNation. He was the starting point guard on last year's Final Four squad.

Quite a few seem to disagree with you; that is, if you're implying Bo Ryan's Wisconsin program wasn't disciplined and focused on fundamentals. He also worked with very few high-end draft picks, although some certainly were present. 

Read the article I posted above; that level of discipline and old-school fundamentals is non-existent with Brian Jones. UND needs someone who can mold young men, not someone who needs "pre-developed talent" in order to win. And before you claim UND can't just hire a "Bo Ryan", look at what NDSU did in hiring someone familiar with those tactics. I would want my kid playing for someone who preaches discipline, hard work, and constant improvement, not someone who only looks for the easy way out by recruiting the prima donnas who think they've already arrived. If that's what Brian Jones really needs, then UND will not win big with Jones at the helm. Don't get me wrong, UND basketball has some great kids in the program. For example, who isn't impressed with the character of Quinton Hooker? An absolutely great kid, and that's what makes him great for UND. UND needs more kids like Quinton Hooker - talented but even more so with his character/mental make-up. You win with kids like that, not the kids who can jump out of the gym but don't know how to show up for class or play as a team. 

[UND1983]

40 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Someone in this thread may have asked the cost to host CIT game. 40 grand. 

Yikes.  I know what I would rather have UND do with the 40k. 

[ArtVandalay]

9 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:

How many draft picks did Bo Ryan have over his 15 seasons (364–130) at Wisconsin? 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/2015/story/_/id/12594145/wisconsin-badgers-coach-bo-ryan-ability-develop-players-transcends-all-teams

Quite a few seem to disagree with you; that is, if you're implying Bo Ryan's Wisconsin program wasn't disciplined and focused on fundamentals. He also worked with very few high-end draft picks, although some certainly were present. 

Read the article I posted above; that level of discipline and old-school fundamentals is non-existent with Brian Jones. UND needs someone who can mold young men, not someone who needs "pre-developed talent" in order to win. And before you claim UND can't just hire a "Bo Ryan", look at what NDSU did in hiring someone familiar with those tactics. I would want my kid playing for someone who preaches discipline, hard work, and constant improvement, not someone who only looks for the easy way out by recruiting the prima donnas who think they've already arrived. If that's what Brian Jones really needs, then UND will not win big with Jones at the helm. Don't get me wrong, UND basketball has some great kids in the program. For example, who isn't impressed with the character of Quinton Hooker? An absolutely great kid, and that's what makes him great for UND. UND needs more kids like Quinton Hooker - talented but even more so with his character/mental make-up. You win with kids like that, not the kids who can jump out of the gym but don't know how to show up for class or play as a team. 

I'll let this one stand on its own. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

4 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

I'll let this one stand on its own. 

I'll help you out. Bottom-line: I believe that Brian Jones does not have the ability to teach the level of fundamentals necessary for UND men's basketball to be a top Big Sky Conference team. Maybe he can rely on talent and that will help with a season here and there, but consistently, UND won't be a top BSC team. After 2016-2017, when Hooker is done, UND will likely be right back in the hole if more players aren't developed. 

[ArtVandalay]

Just now, UND-FB-FAN said:

I'll help you out. Bottom-line: I believe that Brian Jones does not have the ability to teach the level of fundamentals necessary for UND men's basketball to be a top Big Sky Conference team. May he can rely on talent and that will help with a season here and there, but consistently, UND won't be a top BSC team. After 2016-2017, when Hooker is done, UND will likely be right back in the hole if Jones stays aboard. 

Not exactly the bottom line you were indicating. 

[UND-FB-FAN]

3 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Not exactly the bottom line you were indicating. 

My first two posts centered around a single theme; re-read if you didn't catch that. 

UND can't rely on purely talent if they want to consistently compete for the Big Sky Conference championship. Rather, they need to be able to develop some kids who are perhaps devoid of Big 10 talent but more than capable in the areas of work ethic and character. 

[fightingsioux4life]

44 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

I'll let this one stand on its own. 

Good idea, when one is hopelessly nailed into a box, that person should just let it go.

[fightingsioux4life]

9 minutes ago, 82SiouxGuy said:

NDSU is picked to finish finish 2nd in the  Summit preseason polls. They finish 5th. They come back and finish 2nd in the conference tournament, so Richman is a great coach. UND is picked to finish 8th to 10th in Big Sky preseason polls. They finish 5th. They lose in the semifinals of the conference tournament to the conference champs. Jones is the worst coach on the planet. That's the logic for today.

So you are going to measure a team's stock on preseason polls? You and I (and everyone else reading this) know that preseason polls aren't worth the paper they are printed on. And with some of the turmoil NDSU had to deal with during the season, to have them push SDSU to the limit in the title game is pretty good.

[homer]

14 minutes ago, fightingsioux4life said:

So you are going to measure a team's stock on preseason polls? You and I (and everyone else reading this) know that preseason polls aren't worth the paper they are printed on. And with some of the turmoil NDSU had to deal with during the season, to have them push SDSU to the limit in the title game is pretty good.

Taking Weber to the limit in OT isn't pretty good?  

[Risky]

I would say we gave Weber State more  than a push too.  Just sayin.

[hoops44]

I thought NDSU has their own forum for fans posting...so why do they post NDSU stuff on the UND board???

[UND1983]

17 minutes ago, homer said:

Taking Weber to the limit in OT isn't pretty good?  

The new bar for UND BB everybody.  

I don't care what other teams did right now.  "Pushing teams to the limit" sucks.

[UND1983]

47 minutes ago, 82SiouxGuy said:

NDSU is picked to finish finish 2nd in the  Summit preseason polls. They finish 5th. They come back and finish 2nd in the conference tournament, so Richman is a great coach. UND is picked to finish 8th to 10th in Big Sky preseason polls. They finish 5th. They lose in the semifinals of the conference tournament to the conference champs. Jones is the worst coach on the planet. That's the logic for today.

Do ya think people are factoring in the coaches history, maybe?  

[geaux_sioux]

3 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

The new bar for UND BB everybody.  

I don't care what other teams did right now.  "Pushing teams to the limit" sucks.

Wooo. We pushed the best team in a terrible basketball conference to OT. I can now die happy. Hang a banner in the Betty.

[82SiouxGuy]

7 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

The new bar for UND.

Another stupid comment that has nothing to do with what was being discussed.

[82SiouxGuy]

5 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Do ya think people are factoring in the coaches history, maybe?  

They were trying to brag about how good a coach Richards is without pointing out that his team actually underperformed the entire year. 

[UND1983]

1 minute ago, 82SiouxGuy said:

They were trying to brag about how good a coach Richards is without pointing out that his team actually underperformed the entire year. 

His team was average on the floor.  Did you watch them?  Way overrated if they were picked 2nd.  Had a bunch 10 point scorers and no star.  All effort.  

[nd1sufan]

2 minutes ago, 82SiouxGuy said:

They were trying to brag about how good a coach Richards is without pointing out that his team actually underperformed the entire year. 

UND has the best Mid Major Freshman and the Mid Major player of the year and NDSU beat them in Grand Forks. Sounds like a pretty good coaching job to me.

[nd1sufan]

1 minute ago, Bison Dan said:

Soccer team in Italy and softball team in Hawaii - yeah money is a problem.   If I was you I'd worry about your own budget.  There is a reason you guys have the lowest coaching salaries in the area. 

Cost of living is a lot lower in Grand Forks 

[UND1983]

2 minutes ago, nd1sufan said:

UND has the best Mid Major Freshman and the Mid Major player of the year and NDSU beat them in Grand Forks. Sounds like a pretty good coaching job to me.

Congrats.