PairWise Rankings

[cberkas]

If UND and Miami (if Miami gets in) are both 4 seeds and Duluth and Denver are 1 seeds. Duluth and Denver will not be in Fargo or Cincinnati, now if Duluth, Denver, and Western Michigan were all 1 seeds and UND and Miami were 4 seeds one of those teams would be in Fargo or Cincinnati the other two would be out East. 

[Oxbow6]

33 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

LOL you're the only speaking about this that seems to be certain. "WILL BE IN FARGO"

 

All he did was ask if you were sure about it. Why is that so controversial?

Your logic is absolutely fine. But, I was ALSO under the impression that avoiding intraconference matchups was of the most importance. 

BU is a bus ride to Providence. Union is a bus ride to Manchester. Hypothetically those 2 teams could be #1 seeds. If they both are at that time of NCAA selection does one of them get shipped by plane to Fargo to avoid a NCHC first round match up in Fargo if UMD is #1 seed and UMD goes east by plane when they could bus to Fargo?

 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

1 minute ago, iluvdebbies said:

NCAA guidelines:

3. Step three is to fill in the bracket so that first-round conference matchups are avoided, unless it corrupts the integrity of the bracket. If five or more teams from one conference are selected to the championship, then the integrity of the bracket will be protected (i.e., maintaining the pairing process according to seed will take priority over avoidance of first-round conference matchups). To complete each regional, the committee assigns one team from each of the remaining seeded groups so there is a No. 1, No. 2, No. 3 and No. 4 seed at each regional site.


 

Too many facts for this thread Starman, move along

But seriously, this is helpful. Now I remember if there are 5 NCHC teams in the tourney that the committee is told to focus on bracket integrity.

However, even with this being said, in the 2015 NCAAs we had 5 NCHC teams and they still managed to avoid 1st rd matchups & sent Miami to Providence.

I still maintain that they won't send UMD or DU to Fargo in the aforementioned scenario... but this is all just banter

[stoneySIOUX]

3 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

BU is a bus ride to to Providence. Union is a bus ride to Manchester. Hypothetically those 2 teams could be #1 seeds. If they both are at that time of NCAA selection do one of them get shipped by plane to Fargo to avoid a NCHC first round match up in Fargo if UMD is #1 seed and UMD goes east by plane when they could bus to Fargo?

 

I'd say yes. Again, not sure, but the precedent is there. My impression was, and from what Debbies just put on the thread, was that they will do everything they can to avoid the first round, intraconference matchup. That can happen by not putting DU or UMD in Fargo. 

If Western is a No. 1, too, that blows this discussion up because they'd have to have one if UND is a No. 4 seed.

[cberkas]

7 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

BU is a bus ride to to Providence. Union is a bus ride to Manchester. Hypothetically those 2 teams could be #1 seeds. If they both are at that time of NCAA selection do one of them get shipped by plane to Fargo to avoid a NCHC first round match up in Fargo if UMD is #1 seed and UMD goes east by plane when they could bus to Fargo?

 

Yes, one of them would be in Fargo if UND or let's say Omaha or St. Cloud at a 4 seed and Denver and Duluth at a 1 seed. 

Most likely Duluth or Denver in Fargo if UND is a 2 or 3 seed. Then if St. Cloud or Omaha are a 4 seed they will go to one of the other 3 regionals. 

NCHC has the possibility to get 5 or 6 teams in.

[siouxforcefans]

Let me throw a wrench in the "Pairwise rules all matchups" scenario:  Say there's a couple of schools that win their conference tournament and get in, but wouldn't be in otherwise.  If UND is within 1 - 2 spots of a 3 seed, but PW says should be a 4, I'm thinking they may get assigned a 3 seed, just so UMD can get put in Fargo while avoiding a round 1 matchup.  No proof, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[stoneySIOUX]

7 minutes ago, siouxforcefans said:

Let me throw a wrench in the "Pairwise rules all matchups" scenario:  Say there's a couple of schools that win their conference tournament and get in, but wouldn't be in otherwise.  If UND is within 1 - 2 spots of a 3 seed, but PW says should be a 4, I'm thinking they may get assigned a 3 seed, just so UMD can get put in Fargo while avoiding a round 1 matchup.  No proof, but I wouldn't be surprised.

I'd be pretty surprised to see them flip our seed like that. Has that ever happened? Honestly not being confrontational, but do you remember this ever happening?

Only thing close I can think of is when Wisconsin made the tourney when they were below .500 but hosted the regional at the Kohl Center. We beat them anyway  ... Since then they added that under .500 rule.

That's not really the same situation here, I guess.

[cberkas]

12 minutes ago, siouxforcefans said:

Let me throw a wrench in the "Pairwise rules all matchups" scenario:  Say there's a couple of schools that win their conference tournament and get in, but wouldn't be in otherwise.  If UND is within 1 - 2 spots of a 3 seed, but PW says should be a 4, I'm thinking they may get assigned a 3 seed, just so UMD can get put in Fargo while avoiding a round 1 matchup.  No proof, but I wouldn't be surprised.

They'd be a 4 seed, if Duluth is the #1 overall they get the #16 team. This has been broken with the #1 team playing the #15 team

[cberkas]

2 minutes ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I'd be pretty surprised to see them flip our seed like that. Has that ever happened? Honestly not being confrontational, but do you remember this ever happening?

Only thing close I can think of is when Wisconsin made the tourney when they were below .500 but hosted the regional at the Kohl Center. We beat them anyway  ... Since then they added that under .500 rule.

That's not really the same situation here, I guess.

Won't happen, you are seeded were you are seeded no grey area.

[SJHovey]

1 hour ago, Oxbow6 said:

BU is a bus ride to Providence. Union is a bus ride to Manchester. Hypothetically those 2 teams could be #1 seeds. If they both are at that time of NCAA selection does one of them get shipped by plane to Fargo to avoid a NCHC first round match up in Fargo if UMD is #1 seed and UMD goes east by plane when they could bus to Fargo?

 

Let's say that UMD, DU and Western Michigan all end up as #1 seeds, and we end up a #4.  Let's also assume BU is the other #1 seed, and that there are only four NCHC teams in the tournament.

There is no doubt in my mind that BU would be coming to Fargo, UNLESS one fact existed.  If BU were the overall #1 see there is a chance they would go ahead and match up NCHC teams in Fargo, but even in that scenario I still think it would be about 55/45 BU would be here.  There are two holies of holies for the NCAA.  The host team plays at home and no first round matchups between conference members unless it completely destroys bracket integrity.

[stoneySIOUX]

1 minute ago, SJHovey said:

Let's say that UMD, DU and Western Michigan all end up as #1 seeds, and we end up a #4.  Let's also assume BU is the other #1 seed, and that there are only four NCHC teams in the tournament.

There is no doubt in my mind that BU would be coming to Fargo, UNLESS one fact existed.  If BU were the overall #1 see there is a chance they would go ahead and match up NCHC teams in Fargo, but even in that scenario I still think it would be about 55/45 BU would be here.  There are two holies of holies for the NCAA.  The host team plays at home and no first round matchups between conference members unless it completely destroys bracket integrity.

This. Yup, I'd be surprised if they didn't avoid the matchup.

[cberkas]

1 minute ago, SJHovey said:

Let's say that UMD, DU and Western Michigan all end up as #1 seeds, and we end up a #4.  Let's also assume BU is the other #1 seed, and that there are only four NCHC teams in the tournament.

There is no doubt in my mind that BU would be coming to Fargo, UNLESS one fact existed.  If BU were the overall #1 see there is a chance they would go ahead and match up NCHC teams in Fargo, but even in that scenario I still think it would be about 55/45 BU would be here.  There are two holies of holies for the NCAA.  The host team plays at home and no first round matchups between conference members unless it completely destroys bracket integrity.

Still wouldn't matter if BU was the #1 overall they'd be in Fargo to avoid the inter conference 1st round match up if UND was a 4 seed.

[Oxbow6]

So we have BU in Fargo, UMD in Manchester, Union in Cincy and DU in Providence. Makes perfect sense to me.  

[stoneySIOUX]

3 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

So we have BU in Fargo, UMD in Manchester, Union in Cincy and DU in Providence. Makes perfect sense to me.  

To avoid intraconference matchup, yes, that's the precedence. 

[The Sicatoka]

22 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

So we have BU in Fargo, UMD in Manchester, Union in Cincy and DU in Providence. Makes perfect sense to me.  

It's the NCAA. 

[stoneySIOUX]

3 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

It's the NCAA. 

Lol yup.

[Oxbow6]

Maybe I'm trying to make too much of sense of this but I can't see under any circumstances where if BU is a #1 seed that they won't be in Providence. It is a shorter drive than me heading to the Ralph from Fargo. A #1 seed winds up getting penalized because a #4 seed at a host site can't play a interconference team in the first round.  I guess as long as my team is actually playing at their hosting site I'm good with whatever is decided on selection day.

[iluvdebbies]

What's the alternative? Have a regionalized playoff format like FCS football? Fans bitch about that too.

[stoneySIOUX]

4 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Maybe I'm trying to make too much of sense of this but I can't not see under any circumstances where if BU is a #1 seed that they won't be in Providence. It is a shorter drive than me heading to the Ralph from Fargo. A #1 seed winds up getting penalized because a #4 seed at a host site can't play a interconference team in the first round.  I guess as long as my team is actually playing at their hosting site I'm good with whatever is decided on selection day.

Again, yes. Your logic is spot on, but it's the way they've done it.

[Oxbow6]

21 minutes ago, iluvdebbies said:

What's the alternative? Have a regionalized playoff format like FCS football? Fans bitch about that too.

Agree but makes more sense than teams crisscrossing the country via plane when they could be rewarded by playing in their backyard......and they can take a bus getting there.

......but there is DU. Whether they would play in Fargo or Providence the same 6 fans would show up.

 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

1 hour ago, stoneySIOUX said:

I'd be pretty surprised to see them flip our seed like that. Has that ever happened? Honestly not being confrontational, but do you remember this ever happening?

Only thing close I can think of is when Wisconsin made the tourney when they were below .500 but hosted the regional at the Kohl Center. We beat them anyway  ... Since then they added that under .500 rule.

That's not really the same situation here, I guess.

You totally just wanted to bring up the Kohl Center regional where we beat them in OT.

I approve!

[cberkas]

56 minutes ago, Oxbow6 said:

Maybe I'm trying to make too much of sense of this but I can't see under any circumstances where if BU is a #1 seed that they won't be in Providence. It is a shorter drive than me heading to the Ralph from Fargo. A #1 seed winds up getting penalized because a #4 seed at a host site can't play a interconference team in the first round.  I guess as long as my team is actually playing at their hosting site I'm good with whatever is decided on selection day.

You are making this way harder then it needs to be. 

If there are three 1 seeds from the NCHC and one NCHC team is a 4 seed and BU is the one of the 1 seeds they will play the NCHC team even if UND is that 4 seed and BU is the #1 overall seed.

 

[Oxbow6]

10 minutes ago, cberkas said:

You are making this way harder then it needs to be. 

If there are three 1 seeds from the NCHC and one NCHC team is a 4 seed and BU is the one of the 1 seeds they will play the NCHC team even if UND is that 4 seed and BU is the #1 overall seed.

 

Ummmmmmmmmmm..........I don't work or have any affiliation with the NCAA.  I guess I am if common sense is the issue because as I stated before with your scenario above BU comes to Fargo which is absolutely foolish with Providence being 50 minutes away. 

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

Is the underlying message here that if we get in it's as a 4 seed?

[cberkas]

The NCAA should just expand the tournament to 24 teams giving the 1 and 2 seeds a bye in each regional.

Then DaveK can talk about all the B1G teams that make the tournament and we can talk about 7 of 8 NCHC teams making the tournament.