University of north dakota fighting nodaks

[SJHovey]

 

As I've said here, and other places, I'm perfectly fine having Roughriders as the name, even though I didn't vote that way.  I don't consider TR a racist, because I do put him in the context of his times.

 

But I am curious about the big TR and Roughriders fans on this board.  People do realize, don't they, that there is the thinnest of thin connections (if not none at all) between TR (and more importantly, the Roughriders) and UND?

 

Nodaks is not an ideal name, but at least it was the original name of our teams, so there is that connection.  TR vacationed here.  He was never here for more than about a month, and the total time he actually spent in the state was less than one year.  He had a hunting camp here.  At the same time he still lived in NY, ran for office and campaigned in NY, raised his family in NY.  The Roosevelt family has no connection to UND, as far as I can tell.

The Roughriders were formed years after TR stopped vacationing in ND, and was formed by soldiers from the southwest, and TR's Ivy League buddies out east.  I don't think they ever set foot in this state.

It would be like if George H.W. Bush  vacationed in Maine (which he did), opened a fishing business while he was there which then failed in less than a year, causing him to return to Texas forever, and the University of Maine decides to name it's hockey team after George's military regiment.  Um, ok I guess.

 

I've always been fascinated by the way the state of North Dakota has latched onto TR.  I understand it.  It's not like we're Ohio or Virginia or New York or some other state where numerous Presidents have been born, raised and entered politics.

 

But TR hunted deer and elk here, then muttered one very memorable phrase saying nice things about us, and we've suddenly adopted him as our native son, and now want to name our flagship University after his military regiment.

Again, Roughriders is a fine name, and I have no problem if that's what is chosen.  But I just find the connection (or really, lack thereof) kind of funny.

[mksioux]

While not a fan of Nodaks, I could live with it under some conditions;  "Fighting" as an adjective, and a serviceable logo.  However, that is my problem with Nodaks, we are not certain either one of those can, or will happen.  

This is exactly where I am.  I'm torn between Nodaks and Roughriders.  I'd lean Nodaks if it was "Fighting Nodaks" and I knew the logo wouldn't be terrible.  But we don't know if Fighting can/will be added and the logo possibilities are endless - both good and bad. 

Three days left.  I don't know which way I'm going to vote yet.  Anyone going to Missoula this weekend can buy my vote with beer.  PM me.   

Edited October 21, 2015 by mksioux

[sprig]

This is exactly where I am.  I'm torn between Nodaks and Roughriders.  I'd lean Nodaks if it was "Fighting Nodaks" and I knew the logo wouldn't be terrible.  But we don't know if Fighting can/will be added and the logo possibilities are endless - both good and bad. 

Three days left.  I don't know which way I'm going to vote yet.  Anyone going to Missoula this weekend can buy my vote with beer.  PM me.   

4 of us  will be there, but we don't have a favorite, so you buy the beer

Edited October 21, 2015 by sprig

[obborg]

 

 

As I've said here, and other places, I'm perfectly fine having Roughriders as the name, even though I didn't vote that way.  I don't consider TR a racist, because I do put him in the context of his times.

 

But I am curious about the big TR and Roughriders fans on this board.  People do realize, don't they, that there is the thinnest of thin connections (if not none at all) between TR (and more importantly, the Roughriders) and UND?

 

Nodaks is not an ideal name, but at least it was the original name of our teams, so there is that connection.  TR vacationed here.  He was never here for more than about a month, and the total time he actually spent in the state was less than one year.  He had a hunting camp here.  At the same time he still lived in NY, ran for office and campaigned in NY, raised his family in NY.  The Roosevelt family has no connection to UND, as far as I can tell.

The Roughriders were formed years after TR stopped vacationing in ND, and was formed by soldiers from the southwest, and TR's Ivy League buddies out east.  I don't think they ever set foot in this state.

It would be like if George H.W. Bush  vacationed in Maine (which he did), opened a fishing business while he was there which then failed in less than a year, causing him to return to Texas forever, and the University of Maine decides to name it's hockey team after George's military regiment.  Um, ok I guess.

 

I've always been fascinated by the way the state of North Dakota has latched onto TR.  I understand it.  It's not like we're Ohio or Virginia or New York or some other state where numerous Presidents have been born, raised and entered politics.

 

But TR hunted deer and elk here, then muttered one very memorable phrase saying nice things about us, and we've suddenly adopted him as our native son, and now want to name our flagship University after his military regiment.

Again, Roughriders is a fine name, and I have no problem if that's what is chosen.  But I just find the connection (or really, lack thereof) kind of funny.

Very well done.  But of all the great points you make, I have yet to see a single one of them change an opinion on this board.

Edited October 21, 2015 by obborg

[Benny Baker]

As I've said here, and other places, I'm perfectly fine having Roughriders as the name, even though I didn't vote that way.  I don't consider TR a racist, because I do put him in the context of his times.

 

But I am curious about the big TR and Roughriders fans on this board.  People do realize, don't they, that there is the thinnest of thin connections (if not none at all) between TR (and more importantly, the Roughriders) and UND?

 

Nodaks is not an ideal name, but at least it was the original name of our teams, so there is that connection.  TR vacationed here.  He was never here for more than about a month, and the total time he actually spent in the state was less than one year.  He had a hunting camp here.  At the same time he still lived in NY, ran for office and campaigned in NY, raised his family in NY.  The Roosevelt family has no connection to UND, as far as I can tell.

The Roughriders were formed years after TR stopped vacationing in ND, and was formed by soldiers from the southwest, and TR's Ivy League buddies out east.  I don't think they ever set foot in this state.

It would be like if George H.W. Bush  vacationed in Maine (which he did), opened a fishing business while he was there which then failed in less than a year, causing him to return to Texas forever, and the University of Maine decides to name it's hockey team after George's military regiment.  Um, ok I guess.

 

I've always been fascinated by the way the state of North Dakota has latched onto TR.  I understand it.  It's not like we're Ohio or Virginia or New York or some other state where numerous Presidents have been born, raised and entered politics.

 

But TR hunted deer and elk here, then muttered one very memorable phrase saying nice things about us, and we've suddenly adopted him as our native son, and now want to name our flagship University after his military regiment.

Again, Roughriders is a fine name, and I have no problem if that's what is chosen.  But I just find the connection (or really, lack thereof) kind of funny.

I've heard that too, but I've also heard other people dispute that.  Just curious, can you provide a link or reference to a book that supports that claim?

[SJHovey]

I've heard that too, but I've also heard other people dispute that.  Just curious, can you provide a link or reference to a book that supports that claim?

I don't know that there is a definitive time diary that I can point you to online.  Mostly this is from what is contained in the TR biographies.

This timeline is probably about as good as you'll be able to readily find access to.  http://www.nps.gov/thro/learn/historyculture/theodore-roosevelt-timeline.htm

 

 

[Siouxphan27]

As I've said here, and other places, I'm perfectly fine having Roughriders as the name, even though I didn't vote that way.  I don't consider TR a racist, because I do put him in the context of his times.

 

But I am curious about the big TR and Roughriders fans on this board.  People do realize, don't they, that there is the thinnest of thin connections (if not none at all) between TR (and more importantly, the Roughriders) and UND?

 

Nodaks is not an ideal name, but at least it was the original name of our teams, so there is that connection.  TR vacationed here.  He was never here for more than about a month, and the total time he actually spent in the state was less than one year.  He had a hunting camp here.  At the same time he still lived in NY, ran for office and campaigned in NY, raised his family in NY.  The Roosevelt family has no connection to UND, as far as I can tell.

The Roughriders were formed years after TR stopped vacationing in ND, and was formed by soldiers from the southwest, and TR's Ivy League buddies out east.  I don't think they ever set foot in this state.

It would be like if George H.W. Bush  vacationed in Maine (which he did), opened a fishing business while he was there which then failed in less than a year, causing him to return to Texas forever, and the University of Maine decides to name it's hockey team after George's military regiment.  Um, ok I guess.

 

I've always been fascinated by the way the state of North Dakota has latched onto TR.  I understand it.  It's not like we're Ohio or Virginia or New York or some other state where numerous Presidents have been born, raised and entered politics.

 

But TR hunted deer and elk here, then muttered one very memorable phrase saying nice things about us, and we've suddenly adopted him as our native son, and now want to name our flagship University after his military regiment.

Again, Roughriders is a fine name, and I have no problem if that's what is chosen.  But I just find the connection (or really, lack thereof) kind of funny.

nice post.   I like your pres. bush analogy.  Awhile back I posted it would be like taking into account bill Clinton visited North Dakota a couple times during his presidency, said he liked it here, and then UND deciding to call its teams the UND Saxophones.

 

[Benny Baker]

I don't know that there is a definitive time diary that I can point you to online.  Mostly this is from what is contained in the TR biographies.

This timeline is probably about as good as you'll be able to readily find access to.  http://www.nps.gov/thro/learn/historyculture/theodore-roosevelt-timeline.htm

 

 

Much appreciated.  Thanks.

[tnt]

We are not suggesting we become the University of North Dakota Roosevelts.  We are suggesting Roughriders, which is a name that fits the Old West image of the state.  The nickname of the regiment could very well have been "The Boxers" or something pertinent to what he was all about when he lived in the east, but the name originated because of the time he spent as a rancher in North Dakota.  I think the name originating out of his North Dakota experience is a good tie.  How many schools across the country are named after Presidents Lincoln, Washington, Kennedy, etc. as a means of honoring them, when they might have never stepped foot in the state?   Nodak supporters say that the name is open ended and you can do what you want with a logo.  Even if you perceive Roughriders as far removed from TR, it is consistent with the image of the Old West.   If someone said their time at UND made them what they became, do you not think UND would be promoting that left and right.  Even if they didn't say it, they would be drawing connections.  Eddie Belfour and Phil Jackson are just a few that UND promotes as one of their own.  Eddie Belfour was here one year.  No, they are not trying to name a nickname after them, but we aren't trying to do that with Roughriders either, just the connection that resulted in the name being born. 

[SJHovey]

 

, but the name originated because of the time he spent as a rancher in North Dakota.  I think the name originating out of his North Dakota experience is a good tie.

 

Not to start an argument, but I'm not sure this is necessarily true.  I think I read somewhere that the name Rough Riders, which may have even originated in the press, referenced the old Wild Bill western show at the time which incorporated the name Rough Riders into it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_West_shows#/media/File:Buffalo_bill_wild_west_show_c1899.jpg

It seems to me that the unit, made up originally of a bunch of cowboys from the SW part of the country, was given the name in press stories about the group, but I don't have a specific site I can link to on that.

Another possible source of the name.  https://books.google.com/books?id=4Xk7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PR14&lpg=PR14&dq=ORigin+of+roughriders+name&source=bl&ots=uf450gtpis&sig=0b_A529UoKdWJ440SpWYeToGQss&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBjgKahUKEwiNz8yHg9TIAhVJiw0KHYwlA1M#v=onepage&q=ORigin of roughriders name&f=false

Edited October 21, 2015 by SJHovey

[engelbunny]

If Rough Riders is chosen, UND could just use this press release as a template.  Change Texas to North Dakota, and change names like Frisco, Plano, and McKinney to Dickinson, Medora, and Grassy Butte.  Change the baseball references to hockey references, and we should be good to go.

 

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20150225&content_id=110465044&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_t540&sid=t540

 

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

If Rough Riders is chosen, UND could just use this press release as a template.  Change Texas to North Dakota, and change names like Frisco, Plano, and McKinney to Dickinson, Medora, and Grassy Butte.  Change the baseball references to hockey references, and we should be good to go.

 

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20150225&content_id=110465044&fext=.jsp&vkey=news_t540&sid=t540

 

Kind of sobering to stop and think about the amount of work that needs to go into branding, let alone when you're the new kid on the block and your name isn't quite unique.

This one took seven months...for an established franchise.

"Our development process began last July when they met in Frisco with fans, staff and community members to learn about the stories, history and personality of Teddy Roosevelt, the RoughRiders and the Metroplex. This is a fresh look that our fans will rally behind and it is the product of a terrific collaboration."

[Siouxperfan7]

I believe picking Nodaks only makes this long drawn out process even longer.  The point that having Nodaks opens up a wire variety of logo choices is kind of a big deal.  So let's say Nodaks is picked.  Ok, what is the logo going to be?  Is it simply going to be an outline of the state?  Is it just going to be the interlocking ND with "Nodaks" written below it?  What if people aren't satisfied with that?  What should UND brand as a Nodak?  A farmer?  A cowboy?  A hick with overalls?  We could be sitting a year from now debating over what logo should be used to represent a Nodak.  Sure other names have lots of possiblilites for a log.  But at least it narrows it down. 

[siouxstudent]

I believe picking Nodaks only makes this long drawn out process even longer.  The point that having Nodaks opens up a wire variety of logo choices is kind of a big deal.  So let's say Nodaks is picked.  Ok, what is the logo going to be?  Is it simply going to be an outline of the state?  Is it just going to be the interlocking ND with "Nodaks" written below it?  What if people aren't satisfied with that?  What should UND brand as a Nodak?  A farmer?  A cowboy?  A hick with overalls?  We could be sitting a year from now debating over what logo should be used to represent a Nodak.  Sure other names have lots of possiblilites for a log.  But at least it narrows it down. 

Same can be said for every other choice. I trust they will come up with something unique.

[Fetch]

http://nodakclothing.com/

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

http://nodakclothing.com/

This should be required reading for voters.  Blecch!

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

This should be required reading for voters.  Blecch!

I don't follow, didn't see much to read in the link.

It's a clothing company that happens to be name Nodak so... that's what our logo will be?

Sorry, not making the connection.

[siouxstudent]

I don't follow, didn't see much to read in the link.

It's a clothing company that happens to be name Nodak so... that's what our logo will be?

Sorry, not making the connection.

Nor do I but I sure do love what they did with the word Nodak in the middle of the page.

[SIOUXFAN97]

Same can be said for every other choice. I trust they will come up with something unique.

very bold...very

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

I don't follow, didn't see much to read in the link.

It's a clothing company that happens to be name Nodak so... that's what our logo will be?

Sorry, not making the connection.

Not the logo, the presentation.  The lack of imagination.  The fact that UND will have to be dealing with (competing with???) this kind of dreck…FOREVER.

Kind of like naming your new fast food restaurant McDowell's.

[Fetch]

There are 3 or 4 pages to their website goto upper right to find them

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Not the logo, the presentation.  The lack of imagination.  The fact that UND will have to be dealing with (competing with???) this kind of dreck…FOREVER.

Kind of like naming your new fast food restaurant McDowell's.

I really don't think they would be much competition for UND athletics clothing. Especially considering I didn't know it existed until about 10 minutes ago. 

I don't see the lack of imagination by one small company affecting UND's athletic department's imagination in producing and marketing their own Nodak brand.

I guess I'm still failing to really see how this affects the nickname being chosen. Not sure if the fast food restaurant analogy applies.  McDonald's has built a brand that's known worldwide.  This small company does not have that sort of reach or brand equity, obviously.

[siouxforcefans]

I really don't think they would be much competition for UND athletics clothing. Especially considering I didn't know it existed until about 10 minutes ago. 

I don't see the lack of imagination by one small company affecting UND's athletic department's imagination in producing and marketing their own Nodak brand.

I guess I'm still failing to really see how this affects the nickname being chosen. Not sure if the fast food restaurant analogy applies.  McDonald's has built a brand that's known worldwide.  This small company does not have that sort of reach or brand equity, obviously.

What it says to me, is that UND would need a very clear and specific logo.  there are already all these NoDak companies, including clothing, so to generate licensing revenue, the logo will need to be original and specific. 

And, yes, I do think the school thinks about licensing revenues.  My ex-wife sold licensed apparel for a company in the area back when we were still married (counted GF Scheels and the UND Bookstore, pre B&N, as clients), and licensing was a nightmare for Sioux goods.  The school will want the same controls on the new logo, I'm sure.

[siouxstudent]

very bold...very

LOL the point was I wouldnt feel any worse about them screwing up this logo any more than the others.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

What it says to me, is that UND would need a very clear and specific logo.  there are already all these NoDak companies, including clothing, so to generate licensing revenue, the logo will need to be original and specific. 

And, yes, I do think the school thinks about licensing revenues.  My ex-wife sold licensed apparel for a company in the area back when we were still married (counted GF Scheels and the UND Bookstore, pre B&N, as clients), and licensing was a nightmare for Sioux goods.  The school will want the same controls on the new logo, I'm sure.

Agreed about what you said about a very clear and specific logo.

 

I never said that the Sioux doesn't think about licensing revenues so not sure where the 2nd paragraph was referring to.