The case for North Dakota as a standalone name (not a Sioux endorsemen

[homer]

Again, it's he said she said. I will need concrete examples.  The only decent one I've ever heard was the argument that IF the NCAA is mad we don't choose a nickname they could overlook our bids for NCAA sanctioned events (i.e regional sites in Fargo).

 

Jason Hajdu's recent letter as someone who works with the sports teams daily gave several examples. 

[82SiouxGuy]

I understand your clarification on the social media aspect.  Thanks

 

Otherwise, I have put into bold what I consider to be the key portions of the rest of your post - I've always loved the argument "damn the will of the majority - I know what is best" - it does have the unfortunate side effect of opening one up to the criticism of acting like a pompous ass, however.

The majority doesn't always have all of the information, and aren't always paying attention to the entire issue. Not all of the majority may have the best interests of the institution at the top of the list. That's why you hire (elect) people to run the government. That's why you hire people to run institutions like UND.That's why this wasn't a completely democratic process. They brought in a committee of people that represented the major stakeholders in the University. That committee decided that going without a nickname was not best for the University. I agree with them. The committee studied the issue for many hours, much longer than a lot of people that weren't part of the committee. The committee members were much better informed than the majority of people.

 

I believe that too many of the people that are supporting going forward without a nickname are doing so based on emotion, not facts. They are doing so based on what they want, not what is best for the University. They are still too attached to the old nickname, whether they still believe the name can come back or not. I also find it interesting that they think they know better than the 1,100 other NCAA members that have nicknames. There are reasons that nicknames were chosen or developed at every NCAA school in the country other than Hollins University, a small women's only school. Decisions like this need to be made based on facts, not emotions.

[DamStrait]

The majority doesn't always have all of the information, and aren't always paying attention to the entire issue. Not all of the majority may have the best interests of the institution at the top of the list. That's why you hire (elect) people to run the government. That's why you hire people to run institutions like UND.That's why this wasn't a completely democratic process. They brought in a committee of people that represented the major stakeholders in the University. That committee decided that going without a nickname was not best for the University. I agree with them. The committee studied the issue for many hours, much longer than a lot of people that weren't part of the committee. The committee members were much better informed than the majority of people.

 

I believe that too many of the people that are supporting going forward without a nickname are doing so based on emotion, not facts. They are doing so based on what they want, not what is best for the University. They are still too attached to the old nickname, whether they still believe the name can come back or not. I also find it interesting that they think they know better than the 1,100 other NCAA members that have nicknames. There are reasons that nicknames were chosen or developed at every NCAA school in the country other than Hollins University, a small women's only school. Decisions like this need to be made based on facts, not emotions.

You are nothing if not relentless - unconvincingly so, but relentless nonetheless.

[Old Time Hockey]

I would call it like this:

10% really sincerely mean no nickname and won't use the old name

85% want no nickname so they can de facto the old one into the void

5% want no nickname because they believe they can get the old one back some day

I'm an 85%er! Woohoo!

[82SiouxGuy]

You are nothing if not relentless - unconvincingly so, but relentless nonetheless.

I see the continuing support for keeping the Fighting Sioux nickname as relentless, and believe that going without a nickname is just a continuation of that effort. I think that both can harm the University. The University is important to me so I continue to do what I can to protect it. So yeah, I'm going to be relentless during this process.

[Hawk E]

To a certain extent UND already rebranded themselves with the“We are North Dakota” ad campaign.   Notice how those have disappeared???  UND pretty much shot themselves in the foot and are now surprised that people want to stay North Dakota.   This is what may be called reaping the fruits of unintended consequences.

[siouxfan512]

I see the continuing support for keeping the Fighting Sioux nickname as relentless, and believe that going without a nickname is just a continuation of that effort. I think that both can harm the University. The University is important to me so I continue to do what I can to protect it. So yeah, I'm going to be relentless during this process.

 

I understand what you are saying, but you shouldn't generalize everyone who likes "North Dakota" into the "Fighting Sioux Forever" camp. Personally, I like just North Dakota, because it is better that the other options (in my opinion).

 

Now, will I always refer to the team as the Sioux? Yeah, probably. But I will do that regardless of what name is chose. I just don't see myself saying "I can't wait to watch the Fighting Hawk game this weekend". They were always Sioux to me, and always will be. As for an "official name" and what will be on the merchandise ... I just like North Dakota better than the rest of the garbage.

[jdub27]

To a certain extent UND already rebranded themselves with the“We are North Dakota” ad campaign.   Notice how those have disappeared???  UND pretty much shot themselves in the foot and are now surprised that people want to stay North Dakota.   This is what may be called reaping the fruits of unintended consequences.

 

You are going to blame an incredibly generic (and not real popular at the time) ad campaign from 5 years ago for the reason people want to stay North Dakota? Was the University just supposed to not market itself in the interim?  People make it seem like UND didn't use "North Dakota" while they were the Fighting Sioux and won't continue to use it when a new nickname is picked.  130+ years, that is the one thing that hasn't changed.

[82SiouxGuy]

I understand what you are saying, but you shouldn't generalize everyone who likes "North Dakota" into the "Fighting Sioux Forever" camp. Personally, I like just North Dakota, because it is better that the other options (in my opinion).

 

Now, will I always refer to the team as the Sioux? Yeah, probably. But I will do that regardless of what name is chose. I just don't see myself saying "I can't wait to watch the Fighting Hawk game this weekend". They were always Sioux to me, and always will be. As for an "official name" and what will be on the merchandise ... I just like North Dakota better than the rest of the garbage.

I realize that not everyone who is currently supporting the choice of going without a nickname are in the FS Forever group. But I don't think that going without a nickname would have much traction without the FS Forever group. For instance, the rally last week was led by someone wearing a Fighting Sioux hockey jersey, and all reports are that there were chants using the Fighting Sioux name. The rally being planned when school starts is being organized by another group that still supports the Fighting Sioux name. A lot of social media wanting to go without a nickname includes posts saying FS Forever or something similar. It doesn't seem like there would be a lot of people supporting the no nickname option, at least so vocally, without that group.

[DamStrait]

I see the continuing support for keeping the Fighting Sioux nickname as relentless, and believe that going without a nickname is just a continuation of that effort. I think that both can harm the University. The University is important to me so I continue to do what I can to protect it. So yeah, I'm going to be relentless during this process.

I think it's possible for others to care just as much for the university as you do and favor having no nickname - but that's just me.

[Benny Baker]

I realize that not everyone who is currently supporting the choice of going without a nickname are in the FS Forever group. But I don't think that going without a nickname would have much traction without the FS Forever group. For instance, the rally last week was led by someone wearing a Fighting Sioux hockey jersey, and all reports are that there were chants using the Fighting Sioux name. The rally being planned when school starts is being organized by another group that still supports the Fighting Sioux name. A lot of social media wanting to go without a nickname includes posts saying FS Forever or something similar. It doesn't seem like there would be a lot of people supporting the no nickname option, at least so vocally, without that group.

As problematic as this is for the "no nickname" crowd, we should remember that last week's rally had, what, 30 people?

 

But, I agree, it's rather contradictory to proclaim that UND does not need a new "nickname" while shouting "Fighting Sioux forever" out of the other side of your mouth.

[jdub27]

I think it's possible for others to care just as much for the university as you do and favor having no nickname - but that's just me.

 

Explain to me how the large portion (allegedly) of the "no nickname" crowd that also supports bringing back the Fighting Sioux nickname despite the very well known consequences of it can say their motivations are 100% in the best interest of the University of North Dakota.

[DamStrait]

Explain to me how the large portion (allegedly) of the "no nickname" crowd that also supports bringing back the Fighting Sioux nickname despite the very well known consequences of it can say their motivations are 100% in the best interest of the University of North Dakota.

I don't know, I'm not one of them.  Why don't you ask those that are?

[Benny Baker]

I don't know, I'm not one of them.  Why don't you ask those that are?

No kidding!  I love how this place has gone from the "no nickname" crowd simply wants to keep Fighting Sioux as a de facto nickname to the "no nickname" crowd's true motivations are to bring back the Fighting Sioux nickname.

[jdub27]

No kidding!  I love how this place has gone from the "no nickname" crowd simply wants to keep Fighting Sioux as a de facto nickname to the "no nickname" crowd's true motivations are to bring back the Fighting Sioux nickname.

 

There are multiple factions but the people most vocally representing the "no nickname" crowd are making the conclusions easy to come to.  It has been mentioned in committee meetings, on the news and in the newspapers in both articles and letters to the editor, not to mention social media comments.

[Siouxperfan7]

How bout this.  When UND gets a new nickname, if you want to call them by that name, do it.  If you don't want to call them by that name, call them North Dakota.  Both will be acceptable. 

[Cratter]

How bout this.  When UND gets a new nickname, if you want to call them by that name, do it.  If you don't want to call them by that name, call them North Dakota.  Both will be acceptable.

Mind....BLOWN!

[ClassB]

See post on first page about "you're not better than any tom, dick, hairy".... As I stated when I started this. This is not a pro-Sioux topic.

About the populace being ruled by the minority, and the pompous ass remark, i'm a big fan of doing things this way sometimes. However, I don't think pissing off 40% (or 10, or 20, or 30 or whatever the actual number is) of your fan base off is a good way to boost game attendance, merch sales, booze sales at those games. Call me crazy.

Bottom line: Our teams are doing fine (recruiting isn't hurt that terribly, despite all these claims that its been markedly hurt). The new nicknames blow. They are bad.

Restart the process if we're not going to open it up to a public vote, I'll vote on a badass name, but it would take a hell of a marketing campaign from the school to get me to buy Sundogs gear.

[Chewey]

I guess I don't know how you define the sky falling but the number of negatives associated with going forward with "no nickname" continues to grow, regardless of how small or unrealistic some may perceive them to be. They are real. People on the committee admitted it. People that work for UND, including in the athletic department, admit it.  Players and coaches admit it.  There are real consequences and issues that "no nickname" brings that the five options that are officially left don't. Why voluntarily put any of those in play when there is a simple solution to it? So that people can selfishly hold on to an inanimate object?  Or because they somehow think it will be "sticking it" to the NCAA, when in reality they are only putting the University of North Dakota at a disadvantage, regardless of how small or large it may end up being? The biggest issue is that "no nickname" does not resolve the nickname issue one bit.  It is what the committee came to understand in their hours of work and why it was eliminated.  It will continue to waste time, resources and money that could be much better spent elsewhere.

"Players and coaches admit it"? "People on the committee admitted it"? You mean like Karl and Commodore and the other athletes, former and present, who

want to be North Dakota. The argument that the surrender agreement doesn't allow for "North Dakota" has been shown to have been a complete sham. The

"marketing" angle makes no sense as well since marketing a horrible nickname is not going to generate any more revenue than what's presently the case.

Could the motivation possibly be that people who support North Dakota just don't want a nickname - any one of the 5 - that completely sucks? The positions

that not having a nickname because once you've had the best no other will do or that not having a nickname is completely allowed by the surrender agreement or that it's inappropriate to have a horrible nickname - any nickname - just to "move on" are not tantamount to harboring a sentiment to "stick it to the NCAA". I can't stand the NCAA, admittedly, but the NCAA has been shooting itself in the foot just fine without my having to make sure that it knows that I want to stick it to the NCAA. The present nickname selections suck. Inflicting one of them on everyone is not going to cause people to just "move on";

it will not foster a sense of "healing". The committee/Kelley should give the people a voice; that's what they said they'd do. You don't give

the people a voice by taking the most popular option off of the table and then indicate that the public must express its voice regarding a bunch of

wet noodles. Not giving the people a true voice - the ability to select North Dakota, a choice that Kelley and some on the committee may not like -

guarantees that the issue will fester for a very long time. At least with the PC crowd, the unabashed and unchanging sentiment of "we don't care if people move on, we just want something other than Fighting Sioux" has been explicit. I can respect that though I disagree with it. There at least is an

authenticity with respect to that point of view. The position that having a nickname will help people move on eventually is not realistic, especially

when the options have been dictated rather than voluntarily selected. Is the intent of committee/Kelley to adopt an option that satisfies the committee/

Kelley? Or, is the intent to pursue a protocol that addresses the concerns of ALL of the stakeholders(as they said), including "North Dakota" supporters?

[Cratter]

Most people on this site would rather have Roughriders than no nickname.

Wouldnt be surprised if that held true for everyone.

[fightingsioux4life]

Most people on this site would rather have Roughriders than no nickname.

Wouldnt be surprised if that held true for everyone.

I am thinking that is the case.

[Fetch]

Sundogs or Nothing 

[snova4]

See post on first page about "you're not better than any tom, dick, hairy".... As I stated when I started this. This is not a pro-Sioux topic.

About the populace being ruled by the minority, and the pompous ass remark, i'm a big fan of doing things this way sometimes. However, I don't think pissing off 40% (or 10, or 20, or 30 or whatever the actual number is) of your fan base off is a good way to boost game attendance, merch sales, booze sales at those games. Call me crazy.

Bottom line: Our teams are doing fine (recruiting isn't hurt that terribly, despite all these claims that its been markedly hurt). The new nicknames blow. They are bad.

Restart the process if we're not going to open it up to a public vote, I'll vote on a badass name, but it would take a hell of a marketing campaign from the school to get me to buy Sundogs gear.

I don't know, I'll have to be pretty drunk before I start cheering for the Sundogs by name. So maybe it will help the booze sales.

[4evrSIOUX]

Most people on this site would rather have Roughriders than no nickname.

Wouldnt be surprised if that held true for everyone.

Be surprised!

[Sundog]

I don't know, I'll have to be pretty drunk before I start cheering for the Sundogs by name. So maybe it will help the booze sales.

That sounds about right!