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Posted

The far more realistic option is to have a couple of leagues pair up and create an event again. Filling the building to near 100% is the best option. Work the.logistics around that, but this idea that fighting amongst the leagues makes sense is irrational and unproductive. For all the talk about doing what's good for the game, everyone seems to proud to do something that makes sense.

 

Not that this could have a known answer, but how would you ticket this event?  I'm not going to pay $250 a person to go see this other league play games between the NCHC's games.  If you start pushing up prices, there's no way you get that 100% capacity.  I love hockey and watch a bunch of non-Sioux games each year, but on TV, not on my dime...

  • Upvote 1
Posted

Not that this could have a known answer, but how would you ticket this event? I'm not going to pay $250 a person to go see this other league play games between the NCHC's games. If you start pushing up prices, there's no way you get that 100% capacity. I love hockey and watch a bunch of non-Sioux games each year, but on TV, not on my dime...

there are some creative ways you could do it. You could do wcha games in the afternoon and nchc games in the evening on friday and then do 2 championship games on saturday. in something like that, each year you would trade off who is the early and who is the late on each day. in that scenario you could either sell session tickets or you could sell day long tickets on friday.

You could do a format that's like the state hockey tourney where it is 3 days long and each conference has their day for semis and the final is on saturday.

Logistically, I think the first scenario would be ideal in that you want to sell out the building and that makes more sense. If you go off this year's attendance, it just about adds up to a full building and you don't add all the costs associated with adoing a second building. You create the atmosphere we're all looking for and make it financially appealing to the schools.

As for splitting the revs, of course, that would need to be negotiated. It would probably need to be something like a 60-40 or 65-35 split, but if you get that far that's probably the easy part. The biggest thing in my mind is the atmosphere. They need to keep people coming back and without an event with atmosphere and done professionally everyone is going to fail.

These are just a couple options off the top of my head. I have dealt with these types of things a bit, but someone more experienced like bill robertson of the wcha would have 50x more ideas to make something like that work.

Posted

The WCHA had a great final for attendance: Mankato vs Tech, but only 700 Only Bemidji vs Mankato could possibly top it. Could you imagine a WCHA final four of UAH, BGSU, Ferris, and UAF? The WCHA has to be fearful of that happening one day. Only three WCHA teams draw in St Paul.

Likewise, the NCHC has concerns about a FF without UND or Duluth. That would be a nightmare for attendance.

Posted

If the NCHC consistently outdraws the Final Five and the B1G tournement in the X, you don't need to oubid the B1G.  Hypothetically, the X will see that the Frozen Faceoff can generate much more revenue than either of those tournaments and they will not sign new contracts with the other leagues, and will propose a contract to have the NCHC Frozen Faceoff at the X. 

Posted

there are some creative ways you could do it. You could do wcha games in the afternoon and nchc games in the evening on friday and then do 2 championship games on saturday. in something like that, each year you would trade off who is the early and who is the late on each day. in that scenario you could either sell session tickets or you could sell day long tickets on friday.

You could do a format that's like the state hockey tourney where it is 3 days long and each conference has their day for semis and the final is on saturday.

Logistically, I think the first scenario would be ideal in that you want to sell out the building and that makes more sense. If you go off this year's attendance, it just about adds up to a full building and you don't add all the costs associated with adoing a second building. You create the atmosphere we're all looking for and make it financially appealing to the schools.

As for splitting the revs, of course, that would need to be negotiated. It would probably need to be something like a 60-40 or 65-35 split, but if you get that far that's probably the easy part. The biggest thing in my mind is the atmosphere. They need to keep people coming back and without an event with atmosphere and done professionally everyone is going to fail.

These are just a couple options off the top of my head. I have dealt with these types of things a bit, but someone more experienced like bill robertson of the wcha would have 50x more ideas to make something like that work.

Like you said, there are a number of ways you could make the logistics work.  

 

A big question is whether each league wants to keep their third place games.  If so, you'd have eight total games for the weekend.  If not, you'd have six.  Six would be much easier to manage than eight, but eight wouldn't be impossible.  

 

If six, I think you'd do 2-2-2.  Two semi-final games on Thursday, two on Friday, and the two championship games on Saturday.  Leagues would take turns on the Thursday/Friday semi-final slots and would take turns on who gets the late game on Saturday (the Thursday semi-finals would go with the early Saturday game and the Friday semi-finals would go with the late Saturday game).

 

Eight games would be more complicated, but not impossible:  If eight, you could do 2-3-3, with the third-place games taking place in the early game on Friday and Saturday.  However, that would lead to some really quick turnaround times and I'm not sure the coaches would like that.  

 

As for tickets, perhaps each league could sell their own packages, plus offer an overall package to both.  

 

The WCHA had a great final for attendance: Mankato vs Tech. Only Bemidji vs Mankato could possibly top it. Could you imagine a WCHA final four of UAH, BGSU, Ferris, and UAF? The WCHA has to be fearful of that happening one day. Only three WCHA teams draw in St Paul.

Based on what I saw, take UND out of the picture and the NCHC tournament isn't looking so hot either.  Granted, Duluth hasn't made the tournament yet, so it's tough to gauge that fan base, but I was underwhelmed with the number of St. Cloud fans. 

Posted

If the NCHC consistently outdraws the Final Five and the B1G tournement in the X, you don't need to oubid the B1G.  Hypothetically, the X will see that the Frozen Faceoff can generate much more revenue than either of those tournaments and they will not sign new contracts with the other leagues, and will propose a contract to have the NCHC Frozen Faceoff at the X. 

I'm not privy to these contracts, but I don't believe the financial value of these contracts to the venue are exclusively determined by the number of tickets sold.  The Big Ten can afford to make guarantees to the X.  If the Big Ten makes financial guarantees to the X, the Big Ten can still be financially more attractive to the X even with fewer tickets sold.  Moreover, while the attendance was horrible at the Joe this year, I don't think it was that bad at the X last year.  If I recall, it was comparable overall to the NCHC. 

Posted

These are just a couple options off the top of my head. I have dealt with these types of things a bit, but someone more experienced like bill robertson of the wcha would have 50x more ideas to make something like that work.

What are the chances the WCHA, as a whole, would be willing to have their tournament in Minnesota every year?  Wouldn't that upset the Michigan schools?

Posted

If the NCHC consistently outdraws the Final Five and the B1G tournement in the X, you don't need to oubid the B1G.  Hypothetically, the X will see that the Frozen Faceoff can generate much more revenue than either of those tournaments and they will not sign new contracts with the other leagues, and will propose a contract to have the NCHC Frozen Faceoff at the X. 

You're naive.  The Twin Cities is a Big Ten market.  You're also underestimating the Big Ten brand.  If you think the X would rather host something called the NCHC over the Big Ten you're nuts.  The Big Ten can triple a bid from the NCHC if they wanted.  And for the first ever Big Ten hockey tournament the attendance wasn't bad and it will only get better. 

Posted

The X would rather host whichever event makes them more moeny, pediod. If Dora on Ice bring the bank they'll book it. Names don't matter AT ALL. You're overestimating the Big 10.

Posted

I'm not privy to these contracts, but I don't believe the financial value of these contracts to the venue are exclusively determined by the number of tickets sold. The Big Ten can afford to make guarantees to the X. If the Big Ten makes financial guarantees to the X, the Big Ten can still be financially more attractive to the X even with fewer tickets sold. Moreover, while the attendance was horrible at the Joe this year, I don't think it was that bad at the X last year. If I recall, it was comparable overall to the NCHC.

what you said....and 6500 tix (the approx difference between wcha and nchc) for the weekend likely isn't enough for the arena to blink and potentially pissed off the big 10. In the grand hockey tournament plus other events scheme of things, they are the behemoth, like it or not.
Posted

You're naive.  The Twin Cities is a Big Ten market.  You're also underestimating the Big Ten brand.  If you think the X would rather host something called the NCHC over the Big Ten you're nuts.  The Big Ten can triple a bid from the NCHC if they wanted.  And for the first ever Big Ten hockey tournament the attendance wasn't bad and it will only get better. 

Pot-Kettle-Black anyone?

 

The Big Ten Hockey Conference, as currently constructed, is a joke.  No amount of propaganda or polish by BTN will change that.  Gopher hockey fans get this; fans of other Gopher sports do not.  Gopher hockey fans hate realignment; fans of other Gopher sports see "Big Ten" and think "Great".  You can put as much lipstick on this P1G as you want, but it's still a P1G.

  • Upvote 2
Posted

And since the gophers are guaranteed to make it (wow big 10 you suck) the X knows they'll get a decent crowd every year they are there.

Just one short season ago it was better then the NCHC.  This is one year, don't be so short sighted.  And let's not forget your season last year was ended by a Big Ten team. 

Posted

The X would rather host whichever event makes them more moeny, pediod. If Dora on Ice bring the bank they'll book it. Names don't matter AT ALL. You're overestimating the Big 10.

You're just dead wrong.  You could not be more wrong if you tried.  

Posted

What are the chances the WCHA, as a whole, would be willing to have their tournament in Minnesota every year? Wouldn't that upset the Michigan schools?

Not if they can make money. You have to understand that, while competitively, the wcha must take the best deal to offset costs across the entire season. Revenues for wcha schools are approximately staying even. Where they are getting killed is in expenses. Use msu for example, we have 1 trip in conference per year that is less than a 10 hour bus ride. Those extra nights in hotels and extra miles are killers financially. one of the reasons that so many wcha fans were so upset over realignment is because the schools that had the smallest budgets were going to have the highest expenses and it was/is concerning because you have to wonder about the long-term financial viability of running a program under those circumstances.

Long story, short, those schools may not have an option to do it in Michigan if this is financially beneficial. Sometimes you have to plug your nose and take your medicine if it's going to help your over all health in the long-run.

Posted

Why would they care about the name? How does the name make them more money. Please explain.

Because you're looking at the tournament in a vacuum. The big ten OWNS the Twin Cities. If the x is going to turn down the big ten, they damn well better make sure it's a financial no brainer. the x is not going to take a pr hit for the sake of the nchc or wcha.

Posted

& attitudes like marysnoochi are why we no longer want anything to do with pig10

So lets look at Omaha or denver etc.

  • Upvote 2
Posted

Why would they care about the name? How does the name make them more money. Please explain.

The Big Ten can outbid the NCHC or the WCHA with ease.  Plus this is a Big Ten market.  Nobody in the cities has even heard of the NCHC much less the tiny schools that make it up.  

Posted

Actually, pro sports OWN the twin cities. The big 10 is way way below the pro sports in this town both in terms of revenue generation and/or media coverage.

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