dlsiouxfan Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 I grew up in SW ND and had a passion for college basketball and football. I knew nothing about hockey and had to be dragged out of my dorm room to opening night at the old REA in 1988. I spent more than my share of time in the student section on the east side of Memorial Stadium during home football games - mostly freezing my butt off - and couldn't even tell you the number of women's and men's basketball games I attended at Hyslop Sports Center. You make a lot of condesceding generalizations in your rant. I get it too - you hate hockey. Fine, that's your choice. But if you want football to succeed at UND, uou're going to need some of those hockey fans to attend a few games. Actually it would appear NDSU is doing just fine without UND hockey fans attending their games. I'd much rather have the statewide support that they have over what UND has for hockey. It's not even comparable. I'd also rather have the 4,000 and growing on-campus freshmen enrollment they have each year versus the declining on-campus enrollment that UND is facing.
dlsiouxfan Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Any administrator who says anything that stupid needs to resign or be fired. It will take someone with social skills, charisma and a vision to make this work. Other schools do it and I would keep comparing what we do with the Ag school. We need to maximize our own potential and then we won't have to worry about what others do. Like it or not, they're a benchmark for what it takes to be successful at this division. It's not reasonable to expect to have a successful football program while being unwilling to commit the same resources to the sport that the top tier (which unfortunately is NDSU) programs in this division do.
MafiaMan Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Actually it would appear NDSU is doing just fine without UND hockey fans attending their games. Actually, I know for a fact that many fans who attend NDSU football games also attend UND hockey games. You're suggesting that UND should tell local hockey fans to buzz off and try to recruit football fans from elsewhere around town?
sioux rube Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Actually, I know for a fact that many fans who attend NDSU football games also attend UND hockey games. You're suggesting that UND should tell local hockey fans to buzz off and try to recruit football fans from elsewhere around town?I would be one of those fans. Be at the Ralph for the CC series.
UND-FB-FAN Posted January 12, 2015 Author Posted January 12, 2015 If hockey wasn't performing and selling 11,000 tickets per home game one would have to question the emphasis on hockey. But it is, and it's the fiscal engine right now. I think it was Coach Wooden that said, "You can't build something up by tearing something else down." How about we worry about building up and not 'blaming' other programs inside the house. The hockey program doesn't need to be torn down, but rather the athletic department can not become complacent just because the hockey program is covered and structured the way they want it to be. A lot, and I mean a lot, of work needs to be done with football and basketball at UND; UND's athletic department needs to be willing to actually try and put football and basketball at the same level as hockey in order for such a buildup to occur. 1
SIOUXFAN97 Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 This is it. When UND wins a title no one will diminish it in any way. No need to do it now when those guys are winning them. who is gonna be left when und does win one...you might see other conferences say yes to espn's money and say no to the fcs playoffs which will make the fcs playoffs even more of a joke that it already is...
MafiaMan Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 BTW, dlsiouxfan, do you think this is only a UND issue? Tell me, how does Kentucky treat its basketball program compared to its football program? On the flip side, Alabama values football a hellofa lot more than basketball. Can you compare Georgia football with Georgia basketball? Kansas basketball vs Kansas football? Penn State?
The Sicatoka Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 The hockey program doesn't need to be torn down, but rather the athletic department can not become complacent just because the hockey program is covered and structured the way they want it to be. A lot, and I mean a lot, of work needs to be done with football and basketball at UND; UND's athletic department needs to be willing to actually try and put football and basketball at the same level as hockey in order for such a buildup to occur. This I can agree with. (I wasn't getting this vibe from your other posts.)
SIOUXFAN97 Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Well who else should we blame when you ask an administrator why UND can't or won't fund UND football to the level NDSU funds football and they immediately tell you that UND can't or won't do that because their spending so much money on hockey? The hard truth is that UND has stagnated or even declined since construction of the REA. That some economic engine. YES! i've heard someone on here refer to our sid as the hsid...things need to change over at rea before talk of firing jones and getting rid of faison...the rea mafia needs to be exposed!!!!
dlsiouxfan Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Actually, I know for a fact that many fans who attend NDSU football games also attend UND hockey games. You're suggesting that UND should tell local hockey fans to buzz off and try to recruit football fans from elsewhere around town? I know there are a number of fans that do this. They do this because they view UND's program as inferior and not worthy of their entertainment dollar, which is primarily because UND doesn't fund it to comparable levels or place anywhere near the emphasis on it that NDSU does. If UND invested in their program at a comparable level to NDSU this would change but UND is unwilling to do this. UND chooses to write off these sports fans entertainment dollars while at the same time writing off the entertainment dollars of thousands of other sports fans across the state who would much rather follow a strong football program. Why is UND not competing for the entertainment dollars of these sports fans? If UND invested half as much as they do in the hockey program, where would these fans go to get their hockey fix? UMC Crookston? What other regional competition for their hockey entertainment dollar is there? The rest of the UND's hockey rivals seem to get by with half of the amount of spending that UND does and from all appearances get better results.
MafiaMan Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 The hockey program doesn't need to be torn down, but rather the athletic department can not become complacent just because the hockey program is covered and structured the way they want it to be. A lot, and I mean a lot, of work needs to be done with football and basketball at UND; UND's athletic department needs to be willing to actually try and put football and basketball at the same level as hockey in order for such a buildup to occur. Contrary to what dlsioux might think, I bet 99% of UND hockey fans (myself included) would completely agree with everything you just wrote above.
dlsiouxfan Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 BTW, dlsiouxfan, do you think this is only a UND issue? Tell me, how does Kentucky treat its basketball program compared to its football program? On the flip side, Alabama values football a hellofa lot more than basketball. Can you compare Georgia football with Georgia basketball? Kansas basketball vs Kansas football? Penn State? I agree it's not just a UND issue. At least placing emphasis on basketball is financially justifiable. Hockey is a niche sport with a declining fan base. Also, I'm sure Kansas was re-thinking their emphasis a few years back when it looked like the Big 12 was going to implode over football and Kansas was going to be left behind. Football drives the bus in college athletics. Even Duke doesn't have any pull in the ACC if they're opposed to conference moves that benefit football at the expense of basketball and they're the premier basketball program in the country. 1
MafiaMan Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 I agree it's not just a UND issue. At least placing emphasis on basketball is financially justifiable. Hockey is a niche sport with a declining fan base. Also, I'm sure Kansas was re-thinking their emphasis a few years back when it looked like the Big 12 was going to implode over football and Kansas was going to be left behind. Football drives the bus in college athletics. Even Duke doesn't have any pull in the ACC if they're opposed to conference moves that benefit football at the expense of basketball and they're the premier basketball program in the country. Given the fact that schools like Penn State and Arizona State have added or are adding D1 men's hockey programs, dare I disagree with your "declining" popularity and fan base conclusion? 2
iramurphy Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Like it or not, they're a benchmark for what it takes to be successful at this division. It's not reasonable to expect to have a successful football program while being unwilling to commit the same resources to the sport that the top tier (which unfortunately is NDSU) programs in this division do. I don't believe the problem is we aren't willing to invest in other sports, I think we need to raise the dollars to invest. I'm not sure we shouldn't be looking at Wisconsin where they have had a top rated MBB, FB and hockey all at the same time. I realize their hockey is down right now but it isn't because of inadequate facilities or support. The only tier the Ag school is tops is FCS FB. We should take note of that and what they have done well but we need to also look beyond our region and think "outside the box". We need to maximize our potential in all sports across the board. It will take an extra $1,000,000 per yr to take care of salaries alone. That is doable. The facilities are close to where we need to be. We need to do a better job of marketing our athletics and the University. Lots of room for improvement. FB, MBB, WBB and VB are making strides. MBB has some good kids added this year and signed for next year but we need improved performance as to follow.
Irish Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 I don't believe the problem is we aren't willing to invest in other sports, I think we need to raise the dollars to invest. I'm not sure we shouldn't be looking at Wisconsin where they have had a top rated MBB, FB and hockey all at the same time. I realize their hockey is down right now but it isn't because of inadequate facilities or support. The only tier the Ag school is tops is FCS FB. We should take note of that and what they have done well but we need to also look beyond our region and think "outside the box". We need to maximize our potential in all sports across the board. It will take an extra $1,000,000 per yr to take care of salaries alone. That is doable. The facilities are close to where we need to be. We need to do a better job of marketing our athletics and the University. Lots of room for improvement. FB, MBB, WBB and VB are making strides. MBB has some good kids added this year and signed for next year but we need improved performance as to follow. Sioux fans are incredibly tolerent of mediocrity - that's why we wandered in the wilderness for 6 years under the Muss plan. Every program is in need of a competative upgrade. The problems start with the leadership. However, in the same way that we don't demand on the field excellence, we grumble a bit but don't put any pressure on Kelly or Faison. I agree with your financial assessment, but who wants to give Faison a big (or small) extra donation in hopes we will field better teams. We need some leadership and a plan. I for one am so tired of hearing from the school down south. Absolutely no reason we can't win some championships too. In a way, we are getting the kind of programs we have demanded. I'm pretty frustrated with the state of affairs right now.
darell1976 Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 BTW, dlsiouxfan, do you think this is only a UND issue? Tell me, how does Kentucky treat its basketball program compared to its football program? On the flip side, Alabama values football a hellofa lot more than basketball. Can you compare Georgia football with Georgia basketball? Kansas basketball vs Kansas football? Penn State? How about Minnesota hockey compared to Minnesota football or basketball? Same at Wisconsin. You can have multiple successful sports at one school. UND did that in 1997 with 2 sports winning a NC, and in 2001 where football win a NC and the hockey team lost to BC in the NC game. it shouldn't be UND hockey vs UND football/basketball it should be UND vs (name of opponent).
Oxbow6 Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Well who else should we blame when you ask an administrator why UND can't or won't fund UND football to the level NDSU funds football and they immediately tell you that UND can't or won't do that because their spending so much money on hockey? The hard truth is that UND has stagnated or even declined since construction of the REA. That some economic engine. This statement is so far off on any factual substance that it's laughable...but then I considered the source. I was at the Ralph both nights this past weekend and was around many of these "administrators". You are just clueless to make an assinine post like you did. Next you're gonna blame Cliven Bundy for the athletic department's woes...................
Matt Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 One thought before this thread gets locked: Strategically, I don't understand-or perhaps I just can't identify-the athletic department plan since the move up to D-1. If I'm looking at the situation and thinking to myself, "where is the growth going to come from to capitalize on this opportunity?" it is not hockey. It is football, basketball, and volleyball. How much more growth could come from hockey when the move was made? How many more revenue streams? How many more fans into the Ralph? There was such a tremendous opportunity to grow the other sports that was missed, and now we see that once you miss on your opportunity the road can become much more difficult. 2
Oxbow6 Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 One thought before this thread gets locked: Strategically, I don't understand-or perhaps I just can't identify-the athletic department plan since the move up to D-1. If I'm looking at the situation and thinking to myself, "where is the growth going to come from to capitalize on this opportunity?" it is not hockey. It is football, basketball, and volleyball. How much more growth could come from hockey when the move was made? How many more revenue streams? How many more fans into the Ralph? There was such a tremendous opportunity to grow the other sports that was missed, and now we see that once you miss on your opportunity the road can become much more difficult.Put a winner on the court in MBB and on the field in FB.....that's a start. Bubba will get the FB program back to relevance. IMO Jones won't in MBB. Faison needs to step down and get someone with a true vision to lead the AD...that is another step. UND has many more people than Ralph, obviously not to the extent of his deep pockets, that can and will give to this athletic department but they need to see some changes........and believe me none of them think weakening the hockey program is part of those changes.
UND-FB-FAN Posted January 12, 2015 Author Posted January 12, 2015 Football and men's basketball need to get to relevance, or at least one of the two programs. All successful college DI athletic programs are relevant nationally only when football and/or basketball are successful, not hockey. UND hockey is a great fiscal engine, as mentioned above, and is the recognized focus of the university largely due to tradition and facilities, but football and basketball are much more appropriate when focusing on improving the support and fan following.
UND1983 Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 No, a number of them have been generous with donations. Yah but how many are there that have quite well after UND? A lot.
ringneck28 Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 I'm sorry but 2,000 fans at a hockey game in St. Cloud isn't impressive at all when compared to 17,000 fans at a football game in Texas. The two sports are incomparable. There are a lot of alumni and, more importantly, prospective students that would have a great deal more interest in watching high quality football or basketball as opposed to high quality hockey. There is a reason the NHL is solidly fourth among the four major sports and realistically more like 5th or 6th in terms of TV ratings and market share behind the PGA and NASCAR. Heck, on most nights in a lot of markets in this country you're more likely to find an MLS or Premier League soccer game on your television as opposed to an NHL game. College hockey doesn't even register. It's a non-event. I'm sorry but 2,000 fans at a hockey game in St. Cloud isn't impressive at all when compared to 17,000 fans at a football game in Texas. The two sports are incomparable. There are a lot of alumni and, more importantly, prospective students that would have a great deal more interest in watching high quality football or basketball as opposed to high quality hockey. There is a reason the NHL is solidly fourth among the four major sports and realistically more like 5th or 6th in terms of TV ratings and market share behind the PGA and NASCAR. Heck, on most nights in a lot of markets in this country you're more likely to find an MLS or Premier League soccer game on your television as opposed to an NHL game. College hockey doesn't even register. It's a non-event. I'm sorry but 2,000 fans at a hockey game in St. Cloud isn't impressive at all when compared to 17,000 fans at a football game in Texas. The two sports are incomparable. There are a lot of alumni and, more importantly, prospective students that would have a great deal more interest in watching high quality football or basketball as opposed to high quality hockey. There is a reason the NHL is solidly fourth among the four major sports and realistically more like 5th or 6th in terms of TV ratings and market share behind the PGA and NASCAR. Heck, on most nights in a lot of markets in this country you're more likely to find an MLS or Premier League soccer game on your television as opposed to an NHL game. College hockey doesn't even register. It's a non-event. So if you are looking for a comparison here, this st cloud game was like the Iowa State game for the Bison. They estimated that there were 3 thousand Bison fans in Iowa. I have seen 1-2 thousand NDSU fans travel down to SD for games. Of coarse there are going to be large numbers of NDSU fans traveling for a National championship game. I was at the xcel a few years back and the stadium was half UND fans, which for NCAA hockey tourney is tough to do because of how you aquire tickets with priority seating. So you saying hockey is maxed out, is wrong. It is a niche sport and not everyone gets into it, but it is the golden goose for UND and will always be.
Matt Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Put a winner on the court in MBB and on the field in FB.....that's a start. Bubba will get the FB program back to relevance. IMO Jones won't in MBB. Faison needs to step down and get someone with a true vision to lead the AD...that is another step. UND has many more people than Ralph, obviously not to the extent of his deep pockets, that can and will give to this athletic department but they need to see some changes........and believe me none of them think weakening the hockey program is part of those changes. I don't think it needs to take away from hockey. I think it comes to the attitude of leadership. The ac did a great job of marketing to the public that this was a new era...a step up. And it worked! While we belittled Valpo, their marketing created true believers. Meanwhile Kuppy and RT were downplaying that a move to FCS was even a higher level of ball to start with. When that's where leadership was coming from it isn't hard to understand the opportunity was squandered.
Oxbow6 Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Football and men's basketball need to get to relevance, or at least one of the two programs. All successful college DI athletic programs are relevant nationally only when football and/or basketball are successful, not hockey. UND hockey is a great fiscal engine, as mentioned above, and is the recognized focus of the university largely due to tradition and facilities, but football and basketball are much more appropriate when focusing on improving the support and fan following. Agree but for some to even suggest that hockey in any way, shape or form is the reason for the lack of success in FB and MBB is ridiculous and flatout ignorant. 1
CMSioux Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Off topic: ever considered a username change to PMSioux? Evening posts... Please explain - sometimes I post in the evening, sometimes I post in the morning - sometimes I post in the afternoon - it's called having a life in between. Not sure what your point was.
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