College Hockey Expansion

[cberkas]

22 minutes ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

Back to CU, I wonder if PAC 12 is suggesting that they do it.  They and Arizona would have the ability to transition relatively quickly.

NCHC would be interested since they already have an arena and proximity to the HQ/two of the teams.  Also, I would enjoy an excuse to visit Boulder.

For other schools in the PAC12 to add hockey Arizona State has to be successful. I'm not saying that will keep Colorado and Arizona from going D1, I think that it would keep the other PAC12 schools from joining.

I expect at some point the NCHC's foot print to be bigger, both east and west.

[SiouxSherm94]

1 hour ago, cberkas said:

For other schools in the PAC12 to add hockey Arizona State has to be successful. I'm not saying that will keep Colorado and Arizona from going D1, I think that it would keep the other PAC12 schools from joining.

I expect at some point the NCHC's foot print to be bigger, both east and west.

Couldn't agree more here. It's been a while since I've visited this thread so I'm not sure what has and hasn't been mentioned as of recent, but when we look at conference numbers, the NCHC has the second smallest membership among all conferences in NCAA Div1 Men's hockey, in front of only the B1G. We're only in year 4 and look how well we're doing recruiting-wise, financially and moreover the conference's impact on the college hockey landscape in general! It's astonishing, and I can only imagine a greater influence what more will come of the future. Growth at some point is inevitable, but Fenton has kept a strong spine about building and maintaining a solid hockey conference.

[SiouxVolley]

3 hours ago, cberkas said:

For other schools in the PAC12 to add hockey Arizona State has to be successful. I'm not saying that will keep Colorado and Arizona from going D1, I think that it would keep the other PAC12 schools from joining.

I expect at some point the NCHC's foot print to be bigger, both east and west.

Ariz St will be successful on the ice, the question is on it does in the stands and that won't be known for years.

Don't think the NCHC will take more team east of Minnesota.  If Alabama, Illinois St or some other Midwestern or southern school starts hockey, the CCHA will be reborn and even Miami and W Mich would go there.

[Goon]

2 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Ariz St will be successful on the ice, the question is on it does in the stands and that won't be known for years.

Don't think the NCHC will take more team east of Minnesota.  If Alabama, Illinois St or some other Midwestern or southern school starts hockey, the CCHA will be reborn and even Miami and W Mich would go there.

 

Miami and Western aren't going to just leave the NCHC. There's a huge buyout for them to leave. 

[Cratter]

14 minutes ago, Goon said:

Miami and Western aren't going to just leave the NCHC. There's a huge buyout for them to leave. 

About 4.5% of Western Michigans annual athletic budget.

or $1,800 to a person making $40,000 a year (two year notice; $900 a year). And if the "CCHA will be reborn" it likely pay for itself and then some over the years on travel savings.

 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

18 minutes ago, Goon said:

Miami and Western aren't going to just leave the NCHC. There's a huge buyout for them to leave. 

Maybe there's a $1.5 Million bonus for joining the new CCHA?

[Goon]

6 minutes ago, Cratter said:

About 4.5% of Western Michigans annual athletic budget.

or $1,800 to a person making $40,000 a year (two year notice; $900 a year). And if the "CCHA will be reborn" it likely pay for itself and then some over the years on travel savings.

 

 

The rumors/rumblings of the CCHA re-emerging were started by the BGSU beat writer that's since retired, he started those "rumors" before the NCHC played their first game. If the former CCHA schools (Miami and Western) joined a watered-down, reconstituted, league, it would actually lower the profile of their teams. It makes for great talk at coffee, but I would doubt it ever happens. Actually, personally, If both schools wanted to bolt, let them go... I do know that NCHC teams all agreed to the exit fee and said they're all committed to the league... That being said, our biggest league rivals are SCSU, UMD, C.C., DU, UNO.

[Goon]

14 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

Maybe there's a $1.5 Million bonus for joining the new CCHA?

Ha. The CCHA, minus Michigan, OSU, MSU, and Notre Dame doesn't do it for me. It's a 2 at 10:00 and still a 2 at 0200. Woof. 

[jdub27]

23 minutes ago, Cratter said:

About 4.5% of Western Michigans annual athletic budget.

or $1,800 to a person making $40,000 a year (two year notice; $900 a year). And if the "CCHA will be reborn" it likely pay for itself and then some over the years on travel savings.

Their athletic budget is already 75% subsidized, to the equivalent of almost $1,100/student/year.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

54 minutes ago, Goon said:

Ha. The CCHA, minus Michigan, OSU, MSU, and Notre Dame doesn't do it for me. It's a 2 at 10:00 and still a 2 at 0200. Woof. 

While I agree with that 1st part I have absolutely no idea what you are saying in the 2nd part.

[SiouxVolley]

1 hour ago, Goon said:

Miami and Western aren't going to just leave the NCHC. There's a huge buyout for them to leave. 

The exit fees can always be waived if CBS SPORTS is OK with it.  W Mich and Miami will hate Pacific Time Zone or even more Mountain Time teams if more come aboard.

Somehow the Big Sky says they'll waive UND's exit fees if we leave.  Just saying.  The exit fees are only there for protection of the remaining schools so it sill has eight teams or worse doesn't lose its autobid or TV contract.

An Alabama starting hockey would give a new CCHA an in on a cable contract.  W Mich and Miami don't add much value to the NCHC TV contact or tournament compared to a Colorado or Arizona St.  

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

23 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

The exit fees can always be waived if CBS SPORTS is OK with it.  W Mich and Miami will hate Pacific Time Zone or even more Mountain Time teams if more come aboard.

Somehow the Big Sky says they'll waive UND's exit fees if we leave.  Just saying.  The exit fees are only there for protection of the remaining schools so it sill has eight teams or worse doesn't lose its autobid or TV contract.

An Alabama starting hockey would give a new CCHA an in on a cable contract.  W Mich and Miami don't add much value to the NCHC TV contact or tournament compared to a Colorado or Arizona St.  

Why would it matter what CBS sports says? I'd think the 8 member schools would have to OK waiving any exit fee so not sure what say CBS would have.

[SiouxVolley]

4 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

Why would it matter what CBS sports says? I'd think the 8 member schools would have to OK waiving any exit fee so not sure what say CBS would have.

A contract would probably increase in value if two PAC12 teams came aboard and two MAC teams left.  TV representatives are always at the bargaining table for conference moves and often times the TV side are the instigators of change.  The Big 12 wants more than 10 teams as does FOX, but ESPN didn't because they have enough inventory for its needs.  ESPN won by having no B12 expansion and the Big12 didn't want to pass them off.  (The Big12 has it in their contract that all new teams get more money, which would have meant to ESPN would have paid more.)

Having PAC12 teams could complicate the NCHC-CBS contract though, as the PAC12 network might want a piece of the action. That might bE OK for DU and CC and even UND and UNO, but the MAC teams  probably wouldn't like it.

[Goon]

4 hours ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

Why would it matter what CBS sports says? I'd think the 8 member schools would have to OK waiving any exit fee so not sure what say CBS would have.

Nothing... That has nothing to do with the exit fee. 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

43 minutes ago, Goon said:

Nothing... That has nothing to do with the exit fee. 

Yeah methinks regardless of what CBS thinks, Miami and WMU aren't getting out of the nchc sans $1.5mil fee without the member schools' blessing.

[SiouxVolley]

59 minutes ago, Goon said:

Nothing... That has nothing to do with the exit fee. 

Business law would hold W Mich and Miami and even the NCHC for not living up to its contract if the MAC teams left.  If two higher profile teams were substituted, CBS Sports can still say the contract was not lived up to unless they agreed to waive the change.  That is the purpose of exit fees, so the remaining schools don't have so much damage.

Exit fees are complicated and depend on many factors.  CUSA had a couple million for exit fees and lost like six members with much higher profiled like Houston, Memphis and SMU.  After those schools left, the new CUSA contract was worth much less than what is was before with higher profile schools.  Schools left in CUSA each received several million to offset the lower TV payment.  But that was only for one year.

The WAC also had like a $2 mill exit fee, and most of the members had left, leaving the WAC temporarily enriched.  The exit fees were how the WAC enticed UMKC to move from the Slummit, as it paid UMKC's much smaller Slummit exit fees and granted them free admission.  Idaho needed to leave the conference to gain a it's share of the enormous exit fees once they reduced the WAC exit fees.. NMSU still hasn't collected theirs.

[Goon]

54 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said:

Yeah methinks regardless of what CBS thinks, Miami and WMU aren't getting out of the nchc sans $1.5mil fee without the member schools' blessing.

I am thinking the same thing. 

[Goon]

43 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

Business law would hold W Mich and Miami and even the NCHC for not living up to its contract if the MAC teams left.  If two higher profile teams were substituted, CBS Sports can still say the contract was not lived up to unless they agreed to waive the change.  That is the purpose of exit fees, so the remaining schools don't have so much damage.

Exit fees are complicated and depend on many factors.  CUSA had a couple million for exit fees and lost like six members with much higher profiled like Houston, Memphis and SMU.  After those schools left, the new CUSA contract was worth much less than what is was before with higher profile schools.  Schools left in CUSA each received several million to offset the lower TV payment.  But that was only for one year.

The WAC also had like a $2 mill exit fee, and most of the members had left, leaving the WAC temporarily enriched.  The exit fees were how the WAC enticed UMKC to move from the Slummit, as it paid UMKC's much smaller Slummit exit fees and granted them free admission.  Idaho needed to leave the conference to gain a it's share of the enormous exit fees once they reduced the WAC exit fees.. NMSU still hasn't collected theirs.

 

I wonder sometimes... You're the same guy that says the BSC is going FBS and is nowhere close to going FBS. Ten years from now, the BSC will still be FCS. I would bet money on it. Nothing you said here has anything to do with the NCHC schools and if they decided to leave the conference. CBS has no bearing on if a team paid an exit fee. Besides, if I had to guess, Miami and WMichigan aren't usually part of the most watched broadcasts. 

[SiouxVolley]

32 minutes ago, Goon said:

I wonder sometimes... You're the same guy that says the BSC is going FBS and is nowhere close to going FBS. Ten years from now, the BSC will still be FCS. I would bet money on it. Nothing you said here has anything to do with the NCHC schools and if they decided to leave the conference. CBS has no bearing on if a team paid an exit fee. Besides, if I had to guess, Miami and WMichigan aren't usually part of the most watched broadcasts. 

As said many times, not all the teams will go FBS with the WAC.  The BSC will still be FCS in 10 yrs without their top teams.  I really don't expect you to follow the logic on exit fees, as that is not your strong point.

[cberkas]

The CCHA is not coming back, and if it did Miami (a founding member of the NCHC) and Western Michigan (who begged to be in the NCHC) are not leaving for this Hypothetical CCHA.

Now if CBS Sports had any say in how the NCHC adds or if a team pay the buyout. Arizona State would have been added, well Arizona State wasn't added no matter if CBS wanted them in the NCHC or not.

The NCHC has a upper hand on who they will or will not add to the conference. ASU applied to only the NCHC and would have gotten into the WCHA if they wanted to. The NCHC will expand at some point in the East, West, Midwest, and South. Alabama, Missouri State, Iowa State, Cincinnati, Pitt, and Illinois State. If these schools for example wanted to go NCAA D1 they would be looking at the NCHC, and the NCHC wants to be the top conference that everyone wants to be in.

If the PAC12 started a hockey conference would the NCHC make those schools that join the NCHC pay the buyout? I think it depends, I could see the NCHC tell the PAC12 schools Haley only have to pay half but I could see them letting them walk away without a buyout and also making them pay the whole buyout.

Fenton is doing an excellent job as commissioner and the the conference presidents and AD's need to make sure he stays for a long time. The NCHC is in very good hands.

[UNDBIZ]

For actual big money TV deals, sure, the network will have some input on who to add and let leave a conference.  The CBS deal with the NCHC is peanuts, in comparison.  They would have little to no voice at the table because the threat of CBS leaving the NCHC isn't a very big stick (and nobody watches Miami and WMU games anyway).

[jdub27]

9 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

Business law would hold W Mich and Miami and even the NCHC for not living up to its contract if the MAC teams left.  If two higher profile teams were substituted, CBS Sports can still say the contract was not lived up to unless they agreed to waive the change.  That is the purpose of exit fees, so the remaining schools don't have so much damage.

Exit fees are complicated and depend on many factors.  CUSA had a couple million for exit fees and lost like six members with much higher profiled like Houston, Memphis and SMU.  After those schools left, the new CUSA contract was worth much less than what is was before with higher profile schools.  Schools left in CUSA each received several million to offset the lower TV payment.  But that was only for one year.

The WAC also had like a $2 mill exit fee, and most of the members had left, leaving the WAC temporarily enriched.  The exit fees were how the WAC enticed UMKC to move from the Slummit, as it paid UMKC's much smaller Slummit exit fees and granted them free admission.  Idaho needed to leave the conference to gain a it's share of the enormous exit fees once they reduced the WAC exit fees.. NMSU still hasn't collected theirs.

You haven't seen the contract, so you can't say for certain if there is any clauses that prevent or pertain to change in membership. The language in each TV contract varies greatly. I would also venture to guess the damages clause is fairly insignificant because I doubt that CBS Sports is paying very much for the TV rights. It is more of a mutually beneficial agreement where CBS Sports gets some cheap live sports and the NCHC get more exposure without having to pay the production costs. WMU and Miami each host one game that is broadcast on CBS Sports. You really think CBS Sports are going to walk away from the relationship if they lose some eyeballs in Miami, OH or Kalamazoo, MI? That being said, neither of those teams are leaving the NCHC at this point or anytime in the near future. There is no upside.

I'm also not sure how the exit fees of all sport conferences have any relevance to the exit fees of the NCHC. The cost to leave the NCHC is roughly the equivalency of one year's operating cost for the league, which at this point is around $1.5million.

[#MACtion]

The old CCHA was nice, but Miami and Western Michigan are NOT interested in a new CCHA.  I don't know why it keeps being brought up.  Miami and WMU would be interested in lobbying for more eastern teams such as BG or U at Buffalo, Iowa State, Illinois State, etc but won't be leaving the NCHC.  This conference is the best conference and Fenton (a Miami guy) is doing great things and being innovative with NCHC.tv and the Roku App and renegotiating with CBS to allow all the Fox College Sports games, etc...

[Goon]

2 hours ago, #MACtion said:

The old CCHA was nice, but Miami and Western Michigan are NOT interested in a new CCHA.  I don't know why it keeps being brought up.  Miami and WMU would be interested in lobbying for more eastern teams such as BG or U at Buffalo, Iowa State, Illinois State, etc but won't be leaving the NCHC.  This conference is the best conference and Fenton (a Miami guy) is doing great things and being innovative with NCHC.tv and the Roku App and renegotiating with CBS to allow all the Fox College Sports games, etc...

 

 

 

The ex-beat writer from BGSU that now works for the school was the one that was pushing the narrative before the NCHC even played a complete season. I thought it was odd. But then someone from Miami said that BGSU was really butt hurt for not getting accepted into the NCHC. Yet, this never happened. Almost four years later, the NCHC couldn't be stronger. 

 

Quote

CHANGES?: Bowling Green could be headed back to the Central Collegiate Hockey Association.

Or at least the Falcons could be returning to some form of their old league. 

Rumors are circulating throughout college hockey that the next round of realignment could be coming to the sport - even though the latest realignment just took effect this fall.

With the increased travel costs and leagues no longer geographically aligned, schools already are looking at even more realignment - and they're not waiting to see how the current setup works.

Depending on the rumor of the day, there's talk more league changing will take place in the next 3-5 years.

BG appears to be well on its way to contending for the Western Collegiate Hockey Association championship. 

And the program is finally on a solid foundation financially, and has the backing of present school and athletics department administrators.

That puts the Falcon program in better position for next round of realignment.

The most popular rumor regarding BG and the other CCHA leftovers which joined the WCHA leftovers in a new WCHA has some or all of the CCHA schools getting back together.

They could be joined by former CCHA members Western Michigan and Miami of the National Collegiate Hockey Conference; or even Canisius, Mercyhurst, Niagara or Robert Morris of Atlantic Hockey.

BG, Miami and Western are members of the Mid-American Conference in all other sports. The four Atlantic Hockey Schools discussed CCHA membership in the past.

The other NCHC members are Denver, Colorado College, Miami, Minnesota-Duluth, Nebraska-Omaha, North Dakota and St. Cloud.

The other members of the WCHA are CCHA leftovers Ferris State, Alaska, Lake Superior and Northern Michigan; WCHA leftovers Alaska-Anchorage, Bemidji State, Michigan Tech and Minnesota State; and former NCAA Division I independent Alabama-Huntsville .

 

 

 

[Goon]

11 hours ago, SiouxVolley said:

As said many times, not all the teams will go FBS with the WAC.  The BSC will still be FCS in 10 yrs without their top teams.  I really don't expect you to follow the logic on exit fees, as that is not your strong point.

 

Not one thing you've predicted has come true. The agreement with CBS has nothing to do with the exit fee.