College Hockey Expansion

[MafiaMan]

I would love to see the green caravan heading down 169 again!  

Olay!  Olay!  Olay olay olay!

[Cratter]

At least Arizona State and Mankato will have one thing in common when joining: 0 NCAA Tournament Wins.

[southpaw]

On 7/15/2016 at 10:40 AM, SIOUXFAN97 said:

miami and western bc they are D1 FBS schools

duluth and omaha have large metro markets

cc-tradition and dever wanted them in

and scsu...no f'n clue

 

Duluth's metro market is smaller than Bismarck's. 

Initially, the NCHC was supposed to be 7 teams, CC, DU, UNO, UND, UMD, Miami and Notre Dame. When ND demanded too much TV independence among other things, the NCHC said no thanks. Both WMU and SCSU were added to make it 8. 

WMU and SCSU showed the NCHC they were serious about hockey by increasing funding for the sport. 

While Mankato has applied, it only became public due to Brad's request. The NCHC has contacted BGSU to guage interest. They haven't applied but if they do, the choice between Mankato and BG gets tough. 

The conference won't take BG and Mankato just to take them. ASU still needs to figure their arena situation out to get support from Presidents. 

 

 

[ArchyAlum11]

On 2016. 7. 17. at 11:28 AM, Cratter said:

At least Arizona State and Mankato will have one thing in common when joining: 0 NCAA Tournament Wins.

Then they should fit right in with half of the NCHC, including Omaha, Western Michigan, Mami, and SCSU. Furthermore if they do manage to win a national title then they will be tied with Duluth and just behind Colorado College, and CC won its titles in 1950 and 1957. The two major title winners  are UND with 8 and Denver with 7, so lets not pretend that our conference is full of only teams with National Championship Banners, because in reality most of 18 national championship won by NCHC teams are split between UND and Denver.

[cberkas]

59 minutes ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

Then they should fit right in with half of the NCHC, including Omaha, Western Michigan, Mami, and SCSU. Furthermore if they do manage to win a national title then they will be tied with Duluth and just behind Colorado College, and CC won its titles in 1950 and 1957. The two major title winners  are UND with 8 and Denver with 7, so lets not pretend that our conference is full of only teams with National Championship Banners, because in reality most of 18 national championship won by NCHC teams are split between UND and Denver.

Omaha, Miami, and St. Cloud have played in the Froze Four. Omaha got robbed by a video replay used from the other end of the ice against Michigan. Omaha most likely would have beaten CC to make the Frozen Four to play UND in 2011. Miami should have won the national title against BU in 2009. St. Cloud made the Frozen Four in 2013. So only one team in the NCHC has never won a NCAA game, Western Michigan.

[Cratter]

Even Bemidji St, despite not being DI as long as Mankato has, have been to a Frozen Four.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Arizona St. get there before Mankato, especially if both join the NCHC.

[GeauxSioux]

On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 0:02 AM, southpaw said:

Duluth's metro market is smaller than Bismarck's. 

Initially, the NCHC was supposed to be 7 teams, CC, DU, UNO, UND, UMD, Miami and Notre Dame. When ND demanded too much TV independence among other things, the NCHC said no thanks. Both WMU and SCSU were added to make it 8. 

WMU and SCSU showed the NCHC they were serious about hockey by increasing funding for the sport. 

While Mankato has applied, it only became public due to Brad's request. The NCHC has contacted BGSU to guage interest. They haven't applied but if they do, the choice between Mankato and BG gets tough. 

The conference won't take BG and Mankato just to take them. ASU still needs to figure their arena situation out to get support from Presidents. 

 

 

According to this list, Duluth is more than double the size of the Bismarck metro

168 		Duluth		279,601
304		Bismarck	129,517

 

[siouxfan512]

On 7/14/2016 at 0:49 PM, Cratter said:

UND left to anchor another conference. Mankato is not.

Hastings leaves....Mankato tanks back to its old wcha ways....Bemidji hires a new coach...keeps rising....multiple trips to the ncaa tournament and not becoming the first overall #1 seed to lose in the opening round because that belongs to Mankato....buyers remorse?

Mankato is easy road trip for you but Bemidji is easier for all the und fans in gf.

I totally get the Bemidji move too, from a proximity standpoint. That being said, I would actually be ok with not bringing in any additional teams right now. I like our conference where it is. No need to water it down at all.

As for UND leaving to anchor another conference .... its  not like we left to go help out another conference. We left to create a new and much more competitive conference that what was left in the WCHA. We were looking out for our own best interests, and I'm glad we did. It absolutely made the most sense. I just don't care for trying to sound self righteous about it like we were doing anyone else a favor; That is the same type of crap goofer fans pull when they say its their duty to play all the other MN programs, to help them stay afloat (even though the UofM is prob the 4th best program in MN right now).

The Purple Cows don't owe any more loyalty to the WCHA than UND did. They need to do what they think makes the most sense for their school and the future of their program. We can argue all day about whether the move makes sense for them or not, but they certainly are under no obligation to remain where they are.

[Cratter]

No argument here. Every team should do what's best for their program long term...just like if UND was offered membership in another certain conference they'd leave.

 

 

[southpaw]

4 hours ago, GeauxSioux said:

According to this list, Duluth is more than double the size of the Bismarck metro

168 		Duluth		279,601
304		Bismarck	129,517

 

According to this list, which is used to determine the size of TV markets (i.e., the number of actual viewers), there are more viewers in the Bismarck area.

[Benny Baker]

13 minutes ago, southpaw said:

According to this list, which is used to determine the size of TV markets (i.e., the number of actual viewers), there are more viewers in the Bismarck area.

You probably should have also pointed out that there is a difference of less than 1,000 tv homes between Duluth (163,560) and Bismarck (164,550) on that list.  So statistically speaking, they're pretty much the same on that list.

But, you certainly should have also pointed out that your list combines Bismarck with Minot, and Williston, and Dickinson.  So, in other words, the 164,550 on your list represents the entire Western half of North Dakota, not just Bismarck.

The city of Duluth has far more people and far more actual TV viewers than the city of Bismarck.

[#MACtion]

Can't tell if they are being sarcastic or serious, but somebody on the Miami board claims a source saying Notre Dame to possibly join the NCHC in 2017.  Anybody hear anything about a last minute snag in negotiations between ND and Big after news broke but before officially signed that may be leading to ND negotiating with the NCHC now?   Miami and WMU would be totally cool with ASU and ND joining instead of BG or Mankato.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

1 hour ago, #MACtion said:

Can't tell if they are being sarcastic or serious, but somebody on the Miami board claims a source saying Notre Dame to possibly join the NCHC in 2017.  Anybody hear anything about a last minute snag in negotiations between ND and Big after news broke but before officially signed that may be leading to ND negotiating with the NCHC now?   Miami and WMU would be totally cool with ASU and ND joining instead of BG or Mankato.

I really doubt that's credible, especially with Big 10 confirming their acceptance.

[SiouxVolley]

1 hour ago, #MACtion said:

Can't tell if they are being sarcastic or serious, but somebody on the Miami board claims a source saying Notre Dame to possibly join the NCHC in 2017.  Anybody hear anything about a last minute snag in negotiations between ND and Big after news broke but before officially signed that may be leading to ND negotiating with the NCHC now?   Miami and WMU would be totally cool with ASU and ND joining instead of BG or Mankato.

Couldn't conceive of how Delany and Swarbrick could have signed a contract with each other.  They are practically sworn enemies.  There could have been words exchanged in private that one party didn't like.

Notre Dame can't to back to Hockey East, as they have broken trust there.

[SIOUXFAN97]

you wonder if the hold up with asu is the tv/streaming stuff...wonder if nchc backs down a little with asu and nd comes aboard because of it?

[ted2you]

I would like to see the NCHC go to a 10 team league.  There needs to be some vision of what can happen in the future.   I may be wrong but the ultimate health of NCAA Hockey has  to be a primary consideration.  Nation wide hockey is a dynamic growth sport and it would be stupid to ignore the South west as key to that growth.  Hockey has taken the left cost by storm and we are seeing kids from non-traditional hockey areas in waves.   I sat in the old Ralph and watched college hockey when there were 32 teams and am overjoyed that we have now doubled that.   We are not there, we need to do more to nurture the growth.   I hope to live to see the days when ASU and USC square off for the PAC-22 conference title.   North Dakota is in a unique spot to help facilitate the growth of the sport; we can celebrate the thin air of the top of the peak or we can really help others make the climb as well.

The NCHC is healthy.  In my humble Opinion, What makes this conference so fun is that as many have stated, these are not big time college sports schools; but they are big time college hockey schools.  Each of these universities are committed to college hockey; but none got there overnight.   May I remind all that UND had its first home Ice in 1952 and it was called the "Barn."  50 years later after a stop at the Old "Ralph" they moved into the Current "Ralph."   In the mean time, they collected hardware in 59, 62, 80, 82, 87, 97, and 2000 before this last banner.   I'm not saying that WMU or Miami will get there, but if you have the resources and are committed, these schools have a chance.  I predict that ASU and at least 3 other Southwest colleges will make the jump and be successful within 10 years.  For the good of the game we love so much, making a national game of Hockey is the best banner of all. 

When I hear people afraid that the addition of these programs will water down the conference I chuckle, The game is great, the players are there, all that can really hurt this conference is elitism and shortsightedness.   Thanks for letting me preach the sermon.   

[ArchyAlum11]

Just a little comparison on BSGU Falcons vs MNSU Mavericks facilities. I thought it might help illustrate the differences between the two programs, and the importance they place on Hockey.

Bowling Green State University Falcons	Minnesota State University Mavericks
Opened: 1967 (Renovation 1989) Capacity: 5000 (Bench Seats) Average Attendance:2549 (51% capacity) Location: On BSGU Campus Tenant’s: BSGU Hockey, Figure Skating, Curling, Bowling Green HS hockey, Bowling Green Youth Hockey. Seating Arrangement: “U” Shape	Opened: 1995 (Renovation 2014-2016) Capacity: 5280 (Stadium Seating) Average Attendance:3753 (71% capacity) Location: Downtown Mankato Tenant’s: MNSU Men’s and Women’s Hockey Seating Arrangement: “U” Shape
Amenities: Video Screens: No Boxes: No Alcohol Service: No	Amenities: Video Screens: Yes (four screen display scoreboard at center ice) Boxes: Yes Alcohol Service: Full service bars, with alcohol permitted in all areas of the arena (including student section).

 

[SIOUXFAN97]

12 minutes ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

Just a little comparison on BSGU Falcons vs MNSU Mavericks facilities. I thought it might help illustrate the differences between the two programs, and the importance they place on Hockey.

Bowling Green State University Falcons	Minnesota State University Mavericks
Opened: 1967 (Renovation 1989) Capacity: 5000 (Bench Seats) Average Attendance:2549 (51% capacity) Location: On BSGU Campus Tenant’s: BSGU Hockey, Figure Skating, Curling, Bowling Green HS hockey, Bowling Green Youth Hockey. Seating Arrangement: “U” Shape	Opened: 1995 (Renovation 2014-2016)   Capacity: 5280 (Stadium Seating)   Average Attendance:3753 (71% capacity)   Location: Downtown Mankato   Tenant’s: MNSU Men’s and Women’s Hockey Seating Arrangement: “U” Shape
Amenities: Video Screens: No Boxes: No Alcohol Service: No	Amenities:   Video Screens: Yes (four screen display scoreboard at center ice)   Boxes: Yes   Alcohol Service: Full service bars, with alcohol permitted in all areas of the arena (including student section).

 

that you ralph.

[Cratter]

How about Bemidji St.

[ArchyAlum11]

25 minutes ago, Cratter said:

How about Bemidji St.

I'd have to say they are about even in terms of the facilities themselves, Bemdji is newer but slightly smaller, Mankato is larger but is a bit older, though the Renovation and expansion does help. In terms of Neighborhood I have to give the edge to Verizon. Sanford center is not in a horrible location, its a short walk to a hotel and some restaurants, But the Verizon Wireless Center is smack dab in the center of downtown Mankato, multiple bars and restaurants are just down the street, and Two hotels are connected to the Arena by sky way. Both are far more modern than the facilities at BSGU or WMU. I would also contend that they are better than Miami overall though Miami does have nice facility, but its also much smaller and with fewer amenities.

[Cratter]

13 minutes ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

I'd have to say they are about even in terms of the facilities themselves, Bemdji is newer but slightly smaller, Mankato is larger but is a bit older, though the Renovation and expansion does help. In terms of Neighborhood I have to give the edge to Verizon. Sanford center is not in a horrible location, its a short walk to a hotel and some restaurants, But the Verizon Wireless Center is smack dab in the center of downtown Mankato, multiple bars and restaurants are just down the street, and Two hotels are connected to the Arena by sky way. Both are far more modern than the facilities at BSGU or WMU. I would also contend that they are better than Miami overall though Miami does have nice facility, but its also much smaller and with fewer amenities.

Then why did the NCHC want them over Bemidji, Tech, and Kato?

That I will be able to watch Bowling Green play football when I tune in to the Big Ten Network this fall giving the Mac schools a higher profile and visibility nationally? 

[ArchyAlum11]

26 minutes ago, Cratter said:

Then why did the NCHC want them over Bemidji, Tech, and Kato?

That I will be able to watch Bowling Green play football when I tune in to the Big Ten Network this fall giving the Mac schools a higher profile and visibility nationally? 

I think the NCHC reached out to Bowling Green because they are one of the Top four programs in the WCHA and they are a short distance for both Miami and WMU, which are not quite as happy about the travel costs in the NCHC. The NCHC could have also reached out to Ferris State as well, However Ferris State's arena only seats 2000 people and the it's more likely that they would need to build a new arena which is costly and can take a long time before breaking ground. BGSU could probably renovate its current arena and have decent facility though I'm not sure that the ceiling is high enough to allow a video screen score board like at Bemidji or Mankato. The problem is that BSGU doesn't place the same importance its hockey programs and frankly if you look at attendance the interest from students and the community is quite there, despite being 3rd in the conference and ranking in the top 20 nationally, there attendance average is 5th by number in attendance, and 8th by percentage in the WCHA. A move to the NCHC would be more expensive in-terms of league fees and travel,right now that is not a cost BGSU wants to take on.

Also I think we are overplaying the role which conference affiliations in other sports have on hockey. Maybe in the future if more D1 FBS schools start adding hockey it will become more important but until that happens (if it does) regional rivalries will be the bigger driving force in College hockey, its great that UND is going to play BGSU in football that a big deal for our football program, however that is one non-conference game, its a limited single expense for BGSU, joining the NCHC would be a big added annual expense for BGSU especially when it is currently in a league with many of its former regional CCHA rivals. What many of these former CCHA schools want is an inexpensive bus league that minimizes costs for hockey, that is why the CCHA existed to keep costs low for the Michigan and Ohio schools. Raising the profile of your school through its primary conference won't have an effect on said schools hockey conference, hockey is still a niche sport, the fact that all the hockey conferences ( with the exception of the Bigten) are hockey only conferences is reasonable proof of this.

[Cratter]

12 minutes ago, ArchyAlum11 said:

Also I think we are overplaying the role which conference affiliations in other sports have on hockey. 

We as in the AD and Presidents of the Universities that chose Western and Miami over Bemidji and Kato...?

They chose them for a reason....I just ask why one thinks that is?

 

[ArchyAlum11]

18 minutes ago, Cratter said:

We as in the AD and Presidents of the Universities that chose Western and Miami over Bemidji and Kato...?

They chose them for a reason....I just ask why one thinks that is?

 

Oh very clear at the time of adding teams, Maimi and WMU were very much superior programs to both Kato or Bemidji. I would say that Miami of Ohio still is, but I am less convinced that WMU is still superior to MNSU or Bemidji, even in the pairwise rankings last year both Mankato and Bemidji ranked higher the WMU. That said it is really all just speculation at this point. MNSU in an early stage of talking with the NCHC, they have definitely improved their program since Hastings took the reins and my guess is that ASU will be joining the NCHC, ASU currently has the arena situation to workout, but in the mean time they can use Gila arena untill a new facility is built and while nothing is inked yet it looks like the coyotes and ASU will be building a multi purpose arena next to ASU in Tempe, assuming that deal goes through I would guess that ASU is in NCHC. My guess is that NCHC probably sent out feelers to more schools than just BSGU, it probably looked at Tech and MNSU as well, BSGU was probably at the top of their list simply because it would be good for WMU and Miami to help counteract the extra travel expenses of adding ASU.  The reality is if college hockey continues to grow we can expect more realignment and we can expect more leagues to flux and fold depending on how many schools add programs and at what rate.

[cberkas]

If the NCHC lets in someone because of their facilities, then Bemidji get an invite way before Mankato does.