Keep it "North Dakota"

[CMSioux]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/letter-und-teams-north-dakota-works-just-fine

 

Perhaps this is a losing battle for reasons we don't know at this time but but then again maybe a campaign needs to be started to "Keep it North Dakota" before behind the scenes decisions start to be made and we are told "The decision has been made." I'm hoping that Hal is enough of an insider he can keep an eye on this.

[darell1976]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/content/letter-und-teams-north-dakota-works-just-fine

 

Perhaps this is a losing battle for reasons we don't know at this time but but then again maybe a campaign needs to be started to "Keep it North Dakota" before behind the scenes decisions start to be made and we are told "The decision has been made." I'm hoping that Hal is enough of an insider he can keep an eye on this.

 

I can't wait for UND to have a new nickname. I don't like just being called North Dakota. Its not marketable. People need to get over the fact the Sioux name will never return, we will never have a name that great again, and to accept being referred to as the UND Fighting XXXX.  Sorry to Hal Gershman, but UND will have a new name. 

[The Sicatoka]

I'm waiting for the NCAA to see through this "no moniker" obfuscation for what it is: it's a way to keep saying the old moniker. 

 

I'm waiting for the day the NCAA sends a letter that says,

"By not selecting a new moniker you're facilitating and perpetuating use of the old moniker; thus, you are in reality allowing usage of the old moniker. A 'no moniker' solution is not acceptable to the NCAA and as of now you are under sanction until you define your new moniker." 

 

Wild? Crazy? Impossible? Uh, that's how we got here. 

[darell1976]

I'm waiting for the NCAA to see through this "no moniker" obfuscation for what it is: it's a way to keep saying the old moniker. 

 

I'm waiting for the day the NCAA sends a letter that says,

"By not selecting a new moniker you're facilitating and perpetuating use of the old moniker; thus, you are in reality allowing usage of the old moniker. A 'no moniker' solution is not acceptable to the NCAA and as of now you are under sanction until you define your new moniker." 

 

Wild? Crazy? Impossible? Uh, that's how we got here. 

 

Before the state law debacle, the NCAA had a timeline for UND to pick a new nickname. If UND doesn't start after Jan 1, I can almost guarantee UND will receive a notice from the NCAA saying they better pick a name and pick it quick, or they would be in violation of the settlement. 

[NoiseInsideMyHead]

Before the state law debacle, the NCAA had a timeline for UND to pick a new nickname. If UND doesn't start after Jan 1, I can almost guarantee UND will receive a notice from the NCAA saying they better pick a name and pick it quick, or they would be in violation of the settlement. 

 

Funny thing about the settlement…it clearly states that UND will get permission or "will announce that its Athletic Department will transition to a new nickname and logo which do not violate the Policy."  Even if tribal approval was granted but later revoked, UND would then have had one year "to complete transition to a new nickname and logo."  Having no name -- either permanently or indefinitely -- does not even appear to have been contemplated, yet the settlement agreement also does not affirmatively state that having a nickname is an absolute NCAA requirement.

 

Does anybody know if there is an NCAA rule or bylaw that requires member institutions to have a nickname?  Or did UND take it in the shorts and voluntarily agree to do something that the NCAA couldn't have ordered it to do otherwise?

[Chewey]

I'm waiting for the NCAA to see through this "no moniker" obfuscation for what it is: it's a way to keep saying the old moniker. 

 

I'm waiting for the day the NCAA sends a letter that says,

"By not selecting a new moniker you're facilitating and perpetuating use of the old moniker; thus, you are in reality allowing usage of the old moniker. A 'no moniker' solution is not acceptable to the NCAA and as of now you are under sanction until you define your new moniker." 

 

Wild? Crazy? Impossible? Uh, that's how we got here. 

That's speech policing, as I see it.  By not selecting a nickname, they're not using the Fighting Sioux nickname on jerseys, shirts, etc.  UND would not be allowing anything.  It would be a bit circuitous and disingenuous for the NC$$ to say that by not having a nickname you're violating the policy against having offensive nicknames that are arbitrary and capricious, etc.  Not having a nickname at all violates the policy against having offensive nicknames?  WTF?  Any publicity on that would be very negative and would further indicate to the people that the NC$$ not only is thuggish and exploitative but also has lost its collective mind.  How can one be offended by a sports team and school using the name of a state?   Even the name of the state is not good enough to the NC$$?  The real challenge is for the school to NOT engage in some arbitrary and capricious process ostensibly packaged as "thoughtful, thorough and deliberate" to select a new nickname that "instantly recognizable" just for the sake of quickly selecting a new nickname that is stupid, inane and devoid of any inspiration or creativity whatsoever.   This is what the folks at the Hurled are promoting.  Quickly appropriating a nickname from a local high school does not fit the bill either regardless of whether Red River agrees with a nod and a wink (as if it would have a choice, ultimately).  Notre Dame is marketable because of it's history and because of the famous people and coaches that have been affiliated with its FB program.  It's not marketable simply because of its nickname or because of the fighting Leprechaun imagery.  When you've had the best nickname and moniker in all of sport and have used it respectfully for over 80 years you don't just pick a new "instantly recognizable" nickname after some years just because some UND faculty and the GF Hurled editorial board says "it's time."  Nothing is going to be  "instantly recognizable" after 80's years worth of usage of something else.  If anything, any new nickname would be juxtaposed as against  the "Fighting Sioux" regarding how unrecognizable the new nickname would be.  It could be argued that the old official nickname was "The University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux"  and that, now, the nickname is "The University of North Dakota" or just "North Dakota."  It could be argued that it's still a nickname and that the new nickname is simply a truncated version of the old nickname with the "offensive" and "hostile and abusive" parts now eliminated. 

[dagies]

I'm waiting for the NCAA to see through this "no moniker" obfuscation for what it is: it's a way to keep saying the old moniker. 

 

I'm waiting for the day the NCAA sends a letter that says,

"By not selecting a new moniker you're facilitating and perpetuating use of the old moniker; thus, you are in reality allowing usage of the old moniker. A 'no moniker' solution is not acceptable to the NCAA and as of now you are under sanction until you define your new moniker." 

 

Wild? Crazy? Impossible? Uh, that's how we got here. 

I don't know how they could make a claim like that stand up.  If the school is no longer using the nickname or logo officially, and is protecting the trademark to ensure it's not used by others....I think it would be very difficult for the NCAA to publicly make that claim.

 

I'm not arguing for or against a new nickname here, just wanted to add my thought to this.

 

I'm fine with migrating to a new nickname but it's got to be good.  A bad nickname (Goon's "Sundogs") would be worse than none at all, IMO

[Goon]

Before the state law debacle, the NCAA had a timeline for UND to pick a new nickname. If UND doesn't start after Jan 1, I can almost guarantee UND will receive a notice from the NCAA saying they better pick a name and pick it quick, or they would be in violation of the settlement. 

 

Seriously, If the University of North Dakota takes this line of thinking we will end up with a stupid nickname like Sun Dogs.

[Goon]

 The real challenge is for the school to NOT engage in some arbitrary and capricious process ostensibly packaged as "thoughtful, thorough and deliberate" to select a new nickname that "instantly recognizable" just for the sake of quickly selecting a new nickname that is stupid, inane and devoid of any inspiration or creativity whatsoever.   This is what the folks at the Hurled are promoting.  Quickly appropriating a nickname from a local high school does not fit the bill either regardless of whether Red River agrees with a nod and a wink (as if it would have a choice, ultimately).  Notre Dame is marketable because of it's history and because of the famous people and coaches that have been affiliated with its FB program.  It's not marketable simply because of its nickname or because of the fighting Leprechaun imagery.  When you've had the best nickname and moniker in all of sport and have used it respectfully for over 80 years you don't just pick a new "instantly recognizable" nickname after some years just because some UND faculty and the GF Hurled editorial board says "it's time."  Nothing is going to be  "instantly recognizable" after 80's years worth of usage of something else. 

 

I like your thinking sir.

[darell1976]

Seriously, If the University of North Dakota takes this line of thinking we will end up with a stupid nickname like Sun Dogs.

Arkansas St took six weeks and I think Red Wolves is a good name.

[Goon]

Arkansas St took six weeks and I think Red Wolves is a good name.

 

For some reason you have faith that the nickname committee will come up with something that we can all get behind. I can tell you I don't have that feeling.

[The Sicatoka]

We had a name that was “powerful,” “inspiring” and “recognizable”.

 

But no matter, now we can get by with nothing. 

 

Does that make sense?

[The Sicatoka]

When has the NCAA ever worried about negative publicity much less looking thuggish and exploitative? 

 

The NCAA could claim "no moniker" is de facto allowing the old moniker to stand. 

 

The "wink and nod" here is UND claiming, "Oh no, we don't have a moniker." 

[Chewey]

We had a name that was “powerful,” “inspiring” and “recognizable”.

 

But no matter, now we can get by with nothing. 

 

Does that make sense?

 

Yes, actually.  North Dakota alone is not nothing.  It's "North Dakota" now whereas before it was "North Dakota Fighting Sioux".   Some faculty/administration must transition to a new nickname so as to, in their minds, separate all of us victims from the savagery effected by 80 years' worth of usage of the nickname.  Any thinking of "Fighting Sioux" is "racist."  Any speaking of "Fighting Sioux" is "racist."  Any wearing of Fighting Sioux jerseys is "racist."  Any unspoken association or nexus, even if based upon decades of history, between the school, state, teams and the "Fighting Sioux" nickname is "racist."  Any remembrances of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname are "racist."  Any business or bar with "Fighting Sioux" imagery, signed sweaters, signed hockey sticks is "racist."  All of this "abuse" must be expunged, as much as possible, from everywhere and from everyone. Therefore we must choose a new nickname as soon as possible and any delay is "tepid" or "lacking in courage."  This line of thinking is the genesis of the hue and cry to get a new, "instantly recognizable" nickname immediately.  It's not healthy.  It's not transparent.  It's a predetermined protocol that's both fascistic and farcical at the same time.  Definitely, NOT the way to go. 

[jdub27]

Yes, actually.  North Dakota alone is not nothing.  It's "North Dakota" now whereas before it was "North Dakota Fighting Sioux".   Some faculty/administration must transition to a new nickname so as to, in their minds, separate all of us victims from the savagery effected by 80 years' worth of usage of the nickname.  Any thinking of "Fighting Sioux" is "racist."  Any speaking of "Fighting Sioux" is "racist."  Any wearing of Fighting Sioux jerseys is "racist."  Any unspoken association or nexus, even if based upon decades of history, between the school, state, teams and the "Fighting Sioux" nickname is "racist."  Any remembrances of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname are "racist."  Any business or bar with "Fighting Sioux" imagery, signed sweaters, signed hockey sticks is "racist."  All of this "abuse" must be expunged, as much as possible, from everywhere and from everyone. Therefore we must choose a new nickname as soon as possible and any delay is "tepid" or "lacking in courage."  This line of thinking is the genesis of the hue and cry to get a new, "instantly recognizable" nickname immediately.  It's not healthy.  It's not transparent.  It's a predetermined protocol that's both fascistic and farcical at the same time.  Definitely, NOT the way to go. 

Or it is tough to market "North Dakota".  There's a reason teams choose nicknames, it helps in getting your "brand" out there.  Have you seen the new merchandise that is out there right now?  It wouldn't be bad for a secondary logo, but not acceptable for the primary.  Working on marketing for the athletic department is not an enviable position right now.

 

Again, the majority aren't happy where we are right now but understand the reasons why.  Stewing over isn't going to do any good, that ship sailed already.  I'll continue to wear my Sioux clothing and leave up the multiple signs, flags, banners, etc. I have, but putting a new nickname in place is the next step that needs to be taken and sooner than later.

[fightingsioux4life]

Or it is tough to market "North Dakota".  There's a reason teams choose nicknames, it helps in getting your "brand" out there.  Have you seen the new merchandise that is out there right now?  It wouldn't be bad for a secondary logo, but not acceptable for the primary.  Working on marketing for the athletic department is not an enviable position right now.

 

Again, the majority aren't happy where we are right now but understand the reasons why.  Stewing over isn't going to do any good, that ship sailed already.  I'll continue to wear my Sioux clothing and leave up the multiple signs, flags, banners, etc. I have, but putting a new nickname in place is the next step that needs to be taken and sooner than later.

I don't often agree with you, but you are absolutely correct on this.  I have a closet full of Fighting Sioux gear and I will continue wearing it.  However, at some point UND needs to move on with a different name and identity; as painful as it is for us diehards.  The sooner we move on, the sooner we can focus on the teams and athletes.

[Siouxphan27]

If having no nickname isn't a possibility, the Green and White is the next best choice.

It allows the old guard to still feel an attachment to fighting Sioux, as green and white are just colors.... Meanwhile the PC crowd can run with Green and White and design whatever logos they want, while I wear my Sioux gear.... Which happens to be colored.... Yes, green and white.

The Syracuse Orangemen changed to the Orange, and appear to be quite successful just having a color as their new name.

[fightingsioux4life]

If having no nickname isn't a possibility, the Green and White is the next best choice.

It allows the old guard to still feel an attachment to fighting Sioux, as green and white are just colors.... Meanwhile the PC crowd can run with Green and White and design whatever logos they want, while I wear my Sioux gear.... Which happens to be colored.... Yes, green and white.

The Syracuse Orangemen changed to the Orange, and appear to be quite successful just having a color as their new name.

This is why a new nickname is necessary.  "Green and White" is not the "next best" anything.  G.F. Central tried "Maroon and Grey" and it lasted all of two years; people just weren't going to accept something that generic.  But we got stuck with it because of all the "let's just be 'Grand Forks Central' because 'That says it all!'" zealots that were running around at the time.   Now history is repeating itself.  Let us not repeat the mistakes of G.F. Central.  No, no a thousand times NO to "Green and White".

[darell1976]

I don't often agree with you, but you are absolutely correct on this. I have a closet full of Fighting Sioux gear and I will continue wearing it. However, at some point UND needs to move on with a different name and identity; as painful as it is for us diehards. The sooner we move on, the sooner we can focus on the teams and athletes.

I agree with you and jdub27!!!!

[darell1976]

This is why a new nickname is necessary. "Green and White" is not the "next best" anything. G.F. Central tried "Maroon and Grey" and it lasted all of two years; people just weren't going to accept something that generic. But we got stuck with it because of all the "let's just be 'Grand Forks Central' because 'That says it all!'" zealots that were running around at the time. Now history is repeating itself. Let us not repeat the mistakes of G.F. Central. No, no a thousand times NO to "Green and White".

I graduated as a Maroon and Grey and it didn't feel right, I felt like our mascot could've been two crayons. UND needs a new name and that name is not two colors.

[Siouxphan27]

So you're comparing Syracuse, to Grand Forks Central? I Haven't heard a nickname suggestion yet that sounds better than the no nickname name of green and white.

[fightingsioux4life]

So you're comparing Syracuse, to Grand Forks Central? I Haven't heard a nickname suggestion yet that sounds better than the no nickname name of green and white.

Syracuse going from Orangemen to Orange is in no way, shape or form comparable to our situation.  Syracuse is more comparable to Miami (OH) going from Redskins to Redhawks than it is for UND going from Fighting Sioux to "Green and White".  And no, I was comparing GFC to UND, not to Syracuse.  Nice try, though.

[Blackheart]

I can't wait for UND to have a new nickname. I don't like just being called North Dakota. Its not marketable. People need to get over the fact the Sioux name will never return, we will never have a name that great again, and to accept being referred to as the UND Fighting XXXX. Sorry to Hal Gershman, but UND will have a new name.

You're right, we will never have a name this great again and that's exactly why we stay 'just' North Dakota. I'm really looking forward to getting my new Screaming Weasels/Sundogs/Spirit/Freeze T-shirt and cap to represent UND, though...

[Hayduke]

I agree with you and jdub27!!!!

 

Ditto.

 

There has to be a nickname of some sort, not colors.  I'll still wear my Sioux gear, but it is time for the school to move on to a new nickname.

[Oxbow6]

We had a name that was “powerful,” “inspiring” and “recognizable”.

 

But no matter, now we can get by with nothing. 

 

Does that make sense?

In lieu of some name that is totally pathetic and nauseating...yes...yes it makes sense.

 

I absolutely gringe at the thought of what the new nickname will be at whatever point one is named.