UND and the Big Sky could go FBS

[NDSU grad]

34 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

(Pure speculation by me) But the WAC maintained a pulse. Conferences that don't do that probably can't (see: now defunct Southwest Conference). 

How about conferences that still exist, such as the Missouri Valley?  It sponsored football at the highest level for most of its existence.

[NDSU grad]

2 hours ago, Nodak78 said:

based on the SWOT analyses that is the direction Idaho is going.  Some members in Big Sky are not happy.  With the new Commish from the B1G it appears this is fast moving as NM St. will soon become a member.  The new BigSky/WAC would rival the MWC quickly.

What happens to all those basketball schools currently in the WAC?  It would be extremely difficult to make it workable.

[The Sicatoka]

3 minutes ago, NDSU grad said:

How about conferences that still exist, such as the Missouri Valley?  It sponsored football at the highest level for most of its existence.

Feel free to speculate, or ask the NCAA as the authors of the Idaho report did (via the WAC). 

[NDSU grad]

4 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Feel free to speculate, or ask the NCAA as the authors of the Idaho report did (via the WAC). 

I don't think Mark will return my calls.  

[The Sicatoka]

5 minutes ago, NDSU grad said:

I don't think Mark will return my calls.  

He's on with me.  

[Cratter]

So what we know. There's a report saying Idaho can join an FBS WAC. Idaho joined the Big Sky making it 14 teams. The old Big Sky commissioner said if too many schools join the Big Sky it could cause a split. He also said half could split and go FBS.

Sounds like what someone here has been saying all along.

[homer]

2 minutes ago, Cratter said:

So what we know. There's a report saying Idaho can join an FBS WAC. Idaho joined the Big Sky making it 14 teams. The old Big Sky commissioner said if too many schools join the Big Sky it could cause a split. He also said half could split and go FBS.

Sounds like what someone here has been saying all along.

Don't forget the part in Idaho's contract that states which schools need to remain members of the league for them abide by said contract.  

This is surprising to see the report but people involved with the Big Sky have been hinting that conversations were being had for some time.  If NMSU joins, I will believe something is up. 

[Gothmog]

53 minutes ago, Cratter said:

So what we know. There's a report saying Idaho can join an FBS WAC. Idaho joined the Big Sky making it 14 teams. The old Big Sky commissioner said if too many schools join the Big Sky it could cause a split. He also said half could split and go FBS.

Sounds like what someone here has been saying all along.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No one ever doubted that it was possible that the Big Sky could move up en masse, or at least I didn't. The point was always that that was unlikely. There remains no evidence that any of the Big Sky schools are actually preparing to do this, or that they would even choose to if they could. So, this study does add some support to SV's musings, but not much.

BTW - this actually blows away SV's assertion that an announcement of a rule change allowing FCS conferences with an "orphaned" FBS member to move up was imminent.  

 

[dmksioux]

Just for some perspective from Idaho's board...

http://www.scout.com/college/idaho/forums/3864-sbc-bsc-realignment/14725504-wac-revival

Still don't know if it can happen, or if it does, that UND will be a part of it.  At least one Idaho poster who claims he has some good info says a WAC revival is gaining momentum.

At least it's fun to speculate in the off season...if nothing else 

[UNDColorado]

20 minutes ago, dmksioux said:

Just for some perspective from Idaho's board...

http://www.scout.com/college/idaho/forums/3864-sbc-bsc-realignment/14725504-wac-revival

Still don't know if it can happen, or if it does, that UND will be a part of it.  At least one Idaho poster who claims he has some good info says a WAC revival is gaining momentum.

At least it's fun to speculate in the off season...if nothing else 

This is definitely getting interesting. I have had a feeling something is up for a while now, but not enough info to speculate on, just a feeling. This will be fun to watch play out.

[SiouxVolley]

2 hours ago, NDSU grad said:

How about conferences that still exist, such as the Missouri Valley?  It sponsored football at the highest level for most of its existence.

The MVC and Southland and Big West were never FBS conferences, only 1A, so the rules don't apply to them.

[Cratter]

46 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

No one ever doubted that it was possible that the Big Sky could move up en masse..

 

First I've heard anyone say that.

[SiouxVolley]

45 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

No one ever doubted that it was possible that the Big Sky could move up en masse, or at least I didn't. The point was always that that was unlikely. There remains no evidence that any of the Big Sky schools are actually preparing to do this, or that they would even choose to if they could. So, this study does add some support to SV's musings, but not much.

BTW - this actually blows away SV's assertion that an announcement of a rule change allowing FCS conferences with an "orphaned" FBS member to move up was imminent.  

 

I like it that I was wrong.  NMSU can't go to the MVC and make it FBS.

The Big Sky and WAC will have no entry or exit fees for each others members.  If a new member from outside those leagues wants in, they will have to pay several million to go FBS.

[Siouxphan27]

Covenant clap for Sioux Volley.

should start charging a user fee for every bison fan post on this site to help pay for FBS.  Jim? 

[SiouxVolley]

Fullerton and Big Sky Presidents have always known about this rule.  Idaho only left the WAC because it wanted it's share of a couple million dollars in exit fees left by former WAC members and it wanted to renew ties with the Montanas and EWU.

Didn't know that NAU was interested in FBS.  If they play some games in Phoenix they can probably swing it.

Idaho St, Weber St, N Colo, and S Utah are the only sure FCS teams in my book now.  But UTRGV is starting football, Utah Valley start it, and Dixie St and Azusa Pacific could be added from DII, as they have nice facilities and have DI desires.

[SiouxVolley]

I am getting way ahead here, but could see the WAC inviting schools such as Liberty, JMU, Delaware, Stony Brook, Albany and UNH for football only and a couple million in cash.  Then those schools can split and join up with UMASS and ARMY and form their own FBS league.

Would be a way for the new WAC to raise cash, as if won't have a part of the CFP cash that every other league gets until a new contract is negotiated in 2024.

No way would the WAC allow affiliate football members from the MVC, as that would harm UND's recruiting too much.  We need to be the premiere destination for G5 recruits in the area.  NDSU will have to a pay big entry fee for a chance to go FBS eventually and change its scheduled game against us to allow for several homes games in a row for us.

[jacksfan29]

11 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said:

Covenant clap for Sioux Volley.

should start charging a user fee for every bison fan post on this site to help pay for FBS.  Jim? 

Did any of you actually read the consultant report. Below is what you are discussing. Notice a few errors in what S2C has been saying about the report?

Regarding SDSU and NDSU. Neither want anything to do with the WAC/BSC. It doesn't state that the schools think they will get an MVC invite, it simply states that there has been strong speculation (likely outside of the schools) that both may get an MVC invite.

In the notes about recreating a WAC FBS it states that the idea from Fullerton and Hurd was shot down. But the consultants than go on to say that if the discussions regenerated a possible scenario would include USD and UND. Not that it IS GOING TO HAPPEN or that any discussions are even occurring but IF THEY DO.

As noted by a USD friend. One has to wonder how much expertise the consultants had. The likelihood of USD going FBS is less than 10%, if that high. It won't happen.

So before all get excited about S2C's WAC ideas you may want to actually read the report.

Oh by the way, Idaho's President was looking at 3 options. Independent, FCS/BSC or trying to bring the WAC/FBS back from the dead. He chose FCS/BSC because the least best option was bringing back the WAC/FBS.

CONFERENCE NOTES
Western Athletic Conference
Collegiate Consulting has had multiple discussions with the WAC regarding its grandfathered status as a FBS conference, despite not offering football as a sport for two-plus years. Marlon Edge, the WAC’s compliance officer, confirmed with the NCAA that the WAC does meet the criteria.
NCAA Bylaw 20.02.6
Football Bowl Subdivision Conference - A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements
NCAA Bylaw 20.4.2.1.1
Eligibility for Reclassification - Before a Football Championship Subdivision institution may apply for reclassification to the Football Bowl Subdivision, the institution must receive a bona fide invitation for membership from a Football Bowl Subdivision conference or a conference that previously met the definition of a Football Bowl Subdivision conference.
If the WAC were to reinstate football, it would need eight football-playing members. There could be an opportunity with Idaho and New Mexico State. The University of Texas at Rio Grande Valley has recently released an RFP to conduct a football feasibility study. If these three institutions were to have an interest in WAC football, the conference would need to bring in five additional institutions.
Collegiate Consulting has spoken with various institutions to discuss interest in the FBS and WAC; the synopsis of information is detailed:
 North Dakota State and South Dakota State have stated publicly they do not have an interest in moving to FBS. However, it appears from discussions with each school there is not an interest in the WAC, should it reinstate football or go with a combined WAC/Big Sky option. As a side note, there has been strong speculation that both institutions could be invited to join the Missouri Valley Conference as a full member, not just the MVFC.
 If the WAC were to pursue Big Sky institutions, independent of the scenario discussed below, it seems reasonable that Montana and Montana State would make a collaborative decision.
Big Sky Conference
There have been “off-line” discussions with Big Sky officials as well as several Big Sky presidents and athletic directors. Doug Fullerton, the soon-to-be-retired commissioner of the Big Sky, has stated that he would like to see Idaho join as a full member, including football, by the time of his retirement on June 30, 2016. It was also discussed if pressure would be placed on Idaho to drop to FCS or risk losing its current membership in the Big Sky. Discussions with various stakeholders have stated that “the conference, presidents and ADs are O.K. with the current situation; however, everyone has stated that it could change with the new commissioner. There are schools in the Big Sky Conference that would prefer Idaho (and New Mexico State) not join the league for football as they fear it will create an “arms race” at this level.
Big Sky Conference/Western Athletic Conference
Three years ago, Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton and WAC Commissioner Jeff Hurd visited about the possibility of combining the two conferences, and having part of the league participate in FBS and the remainder in FCS for football. The idea did gain some interest, but was ultimately shot down. However, there could be an opportunity to rekindle these discussions. Here is a possible scenario should it gain traction:
Football
 FBS – Idaho, New Mexico State, Montana, Montana State, North Dakota, South Dakota, Cal Poly and Northern Arizona (8 teams).
 FCS – Eastern Washington, Idaho State, Portland State, UC-Davis, Sacramento State, Southern Utah and Northern Colorado (7 teams). If they can meet the academic criteria and budget criteria, and have an interest in “moving up” to FBS, they certainly would be considered.
Basketball
 North Division – Montana, Montana State, North Dakota, South Dakota, Eastern Washington, Portland State, Idaho State, Seattle University and Idaho (9 teams).
 South Division – Sacramento State, Southern Utah, New Mexico State, Northern Colorado, Weber State, Utah Valley, Grand Canyon State, UTRGV and CSU-Bakersfield (9 teams).
With this, most rivalries would be maintained – and some enhanced. Scheduling would be much easier, and schools would be much more similar. There would be a lot of parity in all leagues. Academic criteria under the Carnegie rating service would also be a consideration. There would also be possibilities for more revenue streams for higher-level FCS product in terms of television, ticket pricing, NCAA/conference monies and corporate dollars. Plus, with more regional competition, there could be money savings in travel, etc.

[UNDColorado]

Sitting back eating popcorn watching trolls squirm.

[SiouxVolley]

30 minutes ago, Siouxphan27 said:

should start charging a user fee for every bison fan post on this site to help pay for FBS.  Jim? 

Including Jacks fans in that fee could help too!

[Gothmog]

41 minutes ago, Cratter said:

First I've heard anyone say that.

Well, it isn't the first time I've said it.

[SiouxVolley]

Why can USD afford FCOA but SDSU cant?  When USD's new arena is finished, the basketball parts of the Dakota Dome can be remodeled to seat more the 15k.  That was a plan I heard.

[Gothmog]

5 hours ago, jacksfan29 said:

Did any of you actually read the consultant report. Below is what you are discussing. Notice a few errors in what S2C has been saying about the report?

Regarding SDSU and NDSU. Neither want anything to do with the WAC/BSC. It doesn't state that the schools think they will get an MVC invite, it simply states that there has been strong speculation (likely outside of the schools) that both may get an MVC invite.

In the notes about recreating a WAC FBS it states that the idea from Fullerton and Hurd was shot down. But the consultants than go on to say that if the discussions regenerated a possible scenario would include USD and UND. Not that it IS GOING TO HAPPEN or that any discussions are even occurring but IF THEY DO.

As noted by a USD friend. One has to wonder how much expertise the consultants had. The likelihood of USD going FBS is less than 10%, if that high. It won't happen.

So before all get excited about S2C's WAC ideas you may want to actually read the report.

Oh by the way, Idaho's President was looking at 3 options. Independent, FCS/BSC or trying to bring the WAC/FBS back from the dead. He chose FCS/BSC because the least best option was bringing back the WAC/FBS.

CONFERENCE NOTES
Western Athletic Conference
Collegiate Consulting has had multiple discussions with the WAC regarding its grandfathered status as a FBS conference, despite not offering football as a sport for two-plus years. Marlon Edge, the WAC’s compliance officer, confirmed with the NCAA that the WAC does meet the criteria.
NCAA Bylaw 20.02.6
Football Bowl Subdivision Conference - A conference classified as a Football Bowl Subdivision conference shall be comprised of at least eight full Football Bowl Subdivision members that satisfy all bowl subdivision requirements
NCAA Bylaw 20.4.2.1.1
Eligibility for Reclassification - Before a Football Championship Subdivision institution may apply for reclassification to the Football Bowl Subdivision, the institution must receive a bona fide invitation for membership from a Football Bowl Subdivision conference or a conference that previously met the definition of a Football Bowl Subdivision conference.
If the WAC were to reinstate football, it would need eight football-playing members. There could be an opportunity with Idaho and New Mexico State. The University of Texas at Rio Grande Valley has recently released an RFP to conduct a football feasibility study. If these three institutions were to have an interest in WAC football, the conference would need to bring in five additional institutions.
Collegiate Consulting has spoken with various institutions to discuss interest in the FBS and WAC; the synopsis of information is detailed:
 North Dakota State and South Dakota State have stated publicly they do not have an interest in moving to FBS. However, it appears from discussions with each school there is not an interest in the WAC, should it reinstate football or go with a combined WAC/Big Sky option. As a side note, there has been strong speculation that both institutions could be invited to join the Missouri Valley Conference as a full member, not just the MVFC.
 If the WAC were to pursue Big Sky institutions, independent of the scenario discussed below, it seems reasonable that Montana and Montana State would make a collaborative decision.
Big Sky Conference
There have been “off-line” discussions with Big Sky officials as well as several Big Sky presidents and athletic directors. Doug Fullerton, the soon-to-be-retired commissioner of the Big Sky, has stated that he would like to see Idaho join as a full member, including football, by the time of his retirement on June 30, 2016. It was also discussed if pressure would be placed on Idaho to drop to FCS or risk losing its current membership in the Big Sky. Discussions with various stakeholders have stated that “the conference, presidents and ADs are O.K. with the current situation; however, everyone has stated that it could change with the new commissioner. There are schools in the Big Sky Conference that would prefer Idaho (and New Mexico State) not join the league for football as they fear it will create an “arms race” at this level.
Big Sky Conference/Western Athletic Conference
Three years ago, Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton and WAC Commissioner Jeff Hurd visited about the possibility of combining the two conferences, and having part of the league participate in FBS and the remainder in FCS for football. The idea did gain some interest, but was ultimately shot down. However, there could be an opportunity to rekindle these discussions. Here is a possible scenario should it gain traction:
Football
 FBS – Idaho, New Mexico State, Montana, Montana State, North Dakota, South Dakota, Cal Poly and Northern Arizona (8 teams).
 FCS – Eastern Washington, Idaho State, Portland State, UC-Davis, Sacramento State, Southern Utah and Northern Colorado (7 teams). If they can meet the academic criteria and budget criteria, and have an interest in “moving up” to FBS, they certainly would be considered.
Basketball
 North Division – Montana, Montana State, North Dakota, South Dakota, Eastern Washington, Portland State, Idaho State, Seattle University and Idaho (9 teams).
 South Division – Sacramento State, Southern Utah, New Mexico State, Northern Colorado, Weber State, Utah Valley, Grand Canyon State, UTRGV and CSU-Bakersfield (9 teams).
With this, most rivalries would be maintained – and some enhanced. Scheduling would be much easier, and schools would be much more similar. There would be a lot of parity in all leagues. Academic criteria under the Carnegie rating service would also be a consideration. There would also be possibilities for more revenue streams for higher-level FCS product in terms of television, ticket pricing, NCAA/conference monies and corporate dollars. Plus, with more regional competition, there could be money savings in travel, etc.

 

 

Exactly. The consultant is engaging in the same sort of speculation that SV tries to sell as fact The difference is that that it's spelled out as such in the consultant's report.

That said, this is possible, and if the WAC is interested in reviving football by inviting 6 or more FCS schools. I'd be very happy if NDSU jumped on the opportunity, It would be a fairly risk-free way to get to FBS.

 

 

[SiouxVolley]

2 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Exactly. The consultant is engaging in the same sort of speculation that SV tries to sell as fact The difference that that it's spelled out as such in the consultant's report.

That said, this is possible, and if the WAC is interested in reviving football by inviting 6 or more FCS schools. I'd be very happy if NDSU jumped on the opportunity, It would be a fairly risk-free way to get to FBS.

 

 

On bozoville, posters are already denouncing a new FBS WAC.  Half the bizon fans base will be gone if you get your way.

[darell1976]

8 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Exactly. The consultant is engaging in the same sort of speculation that SV tries to sell as fact The difference that that it's spelled out as such in the consultant's report.

That said, this is possible, and if the WAC is interested in reviving football by inviting 6 or more FCS schools. I'd be very happy if NDSU jumped on the opportunity, It would be a fairly risk-free way to get to FBS.

 

 

Seems like the only money saving way to the FBS is to go the WAC/BSC route instead of the Sun Belt route and play southern and eastern teams. Whether this plan works or not it makes for a good filler until September. 

[Gothmog]

14 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

Seems like the only money saving way to the FBS is to go the WAC/BSC route instead of the Sun Belt route and play southern and eastern teams. Whether this plan works or not it makes for a good filler until September. 

 

IMO, the ideal FBS outcome for NDSU, and I think UND also, would be an FBS MVC. But I think that's even more unlikely.