Discontinuing the UND Shuttle Service is a HUGE, UNFORGIVABLE MISTAKE

[Sioux-cia]

Well there ya go. Why is the university paying to lease a bus from the state?

Let alone paying $800 a night to use it?

One state government program paying another state government program. Odd.

Simple math shows the buses made a profit minus the $1600 for a weekend of use to pay the state of North Dakota.

Very odd.....

[southpaw]

Very odd.....

Not odd at all. Just because they're both government programs doesn't mean they just cover the costs. I work at the admin level at a school district. If a high school wants to use some of our equipment, they have to pay for it. Both of our budgets come from the same place but we have to cover the costs of equipment breaking and replacement. Same deal with busses and UND.

[82SiouxGuy]

Not odd at all. Just because they're both government programs doesn't mean they just cover the costs. I work at the admin level at a school district. If a high school wants to use some of our equipment, they have to pay for it. Both of our budgets come from the same place but we have to cover the costs of equipment breaking and replacement. Same deal with busses and UND.

The other thing to know is that the ND Department of Transportation owns and operates most of the vehicles for the state. Other departments pay to use those vehicles rather than own the vehicles. In some cases it's on a short term basis, in others it's for longer periods. The DOT also owns most of the planes for the state other than the ones owned by UND Aviation. When the Legislature was upset with NDSU about the airplane owned by the NDSU Foundation, they wanted NDSU to turn the plane over to DOT unless they could sell it quickly. I didn't realize that the UND shuttle buses were owned by DOT, but it isn't really a big surprise.

[Redneksioux]

The cost of parking/shuttle for und hockey shouldn't be on the state taxpayer. This should be paid by the end user/the Ralph/und. After understanding their past setup, I think they made the right decision.

[Sioux-cia]

I don't see where there is a loss in running the shuttle for hockey attendees. Aren't there are more than 80 persons that use it per night or cars that park there per night?

[southpaw]

I don't see where there is a loss in running the shuttle for hockey attendees. Aren't there are more than 80 persons that use it per night or cars that park there per night?

I don't know the numbers of people who park in the lot and pay the $10. As has been said before, people can park near the lot, walk there and get a free ride I believe. The $80 covers the cost of the shuttle bus but what about the cost of the employees at the parking ramp? The employees driving the busses? It's going to cost more than $820 for all of that.

[Redneksioux]

Even if there is....should this be funded by und? Or should the Ralph be running it? Tough to say without knowing who is being paid what.

[Sioux-cia]

As a season ticket holder, I would pay a buck a series more per year to keep the shuttle buses. How many of us are there? That should cover the costs of running the shuttles. I hate changes that appear to have been done with no thought of the fall out and without a contingency plan as this decision appears to have been done.

[siouxjoy]

I don't see where there is a loss in running the shuttle for hockey attendees. Aren't there are more than 80 persons that use it per night or cars that park there per night?

I think that is just the dollar amount for the buses. I am sure the cost is much higher when you factor in fuel, paying the drivers, etc. There may be a cost to have the ramp open, too.

[Cratter]

UND could make money running the shuttle if it wasn't paying $1600 a weekend to rent the bus from the NDDOT.

[82SiouxGuy]

UND could make money running the shuttle if it wasn't paying $1600 a weekend to rent the bus from the NDDOT.

It wasn't 1 bus, it was 3 or 4 buses. And if they weren't paying to rent the buses they wouldn't have buses to run. According to that email UND doesn't own the shuttle buses, NDDOT does.

[Redneksioux]

UND could make money running the shuttle if it wasn't paying $1600 a weekend to rent the bus from the NDDOT.

Is it bus or or multiple busses though? And if multiple how many? And who paid for the gas? If it's $800 per night for one bus I'd think that is a little high either way. Especially considering the conflict of interest from one government entity to another. Either way the burden shouldn't be on the taxpayer for this service.

[Cratter]

Glad they aren't renting a bus they own. Ha

[Cratter]

Is it bus or or multiple busses though? And if multiple how many? And who paid for the gas? If it's $800 per night for one bus I'd think that is a little high either way. Especially considering the conflict of interest from one government entity to another. Either way the burden shouldn't be on the taxpayer for this service.

$800 for the buses without gas....the same buses UND uses for students. Does the DOT charge UND $800 for the uses of those buses during the week or do they get a cheaper rate? And that's $800 for just a few hours at night...how much do does UND pay to use those shuttles during the day for longer periods $1600 a day? I know why tuition is so high now.

[Irish]

As a season ticket holder, I would pay a buck a series more per year to keep the shuttle buses. How many of us are there? That should cover the costs of running the shuttles. I hate changes that appear to have been done with no thought of the fall out and without a contingency plan as this decision appears to have been done.

Couldn't agree more - another example of catering to corporate and screwing the little guy - fans who can't afford a parking pass are not high priority for UND or the Ralph. They would just as soon replace you with people who want to socialize but have big bucks. Very disappointed. I understand this doesn't affect every fan on this board, but the ones that used it relied on it. Can't take a bar shuttle with a kid or walk many blocks in freezing temps. I wish the fans on this board would be more supportive of the average Sioux fan many of whom are die-hard Sioux fans but don't have deep pockets.

The Ralph is making much more than this cost this season with the addition of 4 new seats where the goal judges used to sit. Selling them at $5000 per.

[choyt3]

Couldn't agree more - another example of catering to corporate and screwing the little guy - fans who can't afford a parking pass are not high priority for UND or the Ralph. They would just as soon replace you with people who want to socialize but have big bucks. Very disappointed. I understand this doesn't affect every fan on this board, but the ones that used it relied on it. Can't take a bar shuttle with a kid or walk many blocks in freezing temps. I wish the fans on this board would be more supportive of the average Sioux fan many of whom are die-hard Sioux fans but don't have deep pockets.

The Ralph is making much more than this cost this season with the addition of 4 new seats where the goal judges used to sit. Selling them at $5000 per.

[Redneksioux]

Couldn't agree more - another example of catering to corporate and screwing the little guy - fans who can't afford a parking pass are not high priority for UND or the Ralph. They would just as soon replace you with people who want to socialize but have big bucks. Very disappointed. I understand this doesn't affect every fan on this board, but the ones that used it relied on it. Can't take a bar shuttle with a kid or walk many blocks in freezing temps. I wish the fans on this board would be more supportive of the average Sioux fan many of whom are die-hard Sioux fans but don't have deep pockets.

The Ralph is making much more than this cost this season with the addition of 4 new seats where the goal judges used to sit. Selling them at $5000 per.

I feel for those that are without services that have been available in the past....and parking isn't the only service. But this is a corporate world now and it's all about the $.

[smokey the cat]

Should not the onus of providing the bus service be on either the athletic department or the Ralph? If a department wants to use a UND van for something they have to pay rent and gas on it. So then would not the same thing be applied to either the Ralph or the athletic department instead of the parking office? Biggest issue that I have not seen reading through all the comments on this is the most important one. Why did the city of Grand Forks allow the Ralph to skip the required parking, that others are subject to, based on size of the building? You build an apartment building and you have to have x number of parking spots. You build a commercial building and have to have x number of spots. UND had the land to build the parking but chose the more profitable route of commercial development instead. For some reason I keep thinking that when it was being argued on where to build the Alerus it was said the Bronson property could not be used because there was a codicil that said it could not be used for commercial development. Does anyone else remember that? I think it was UND that said it.

[82SiouxGuy]

Should not the onus of providing the bus service be on either the athletic department or the Ralph? If a department wants to use a UND van for something they have to pay rent and gas on it. So then would not the same thing be applied to either the Ralph or the athletic department instead of the parking office? Biggest issue that I have not seen reading through all the comments on this is the most important one. Why did the city of Grand Forks allow the Ralph to skip the required parking, that others are subject to, based on size of the building? You build an apartment building and you have to have x number of parking spots. You build a commercial building and have to have x number of spots. UND had the land to build the parking but chose the more profitable route of commercial development instead. For some reason I keep thinking that when it was being argued on where to build the Alerus it was said the Bronson property could not be used because there was a codicil that said it could not be used for commercial development. Does anyone else remember that? I think it was UND that said it.

UND owns the Bronson property. It was donated to UND years ago. UND could do anything they wanted with it. A portion of the property was leased to Ralph Engelstad's Trust for the REA. Retail has always been discussed on the Bronson property. At one time they wanted to create a mixed use area with retail and apartments similar to Dinky Town in Minneapolis. That didn't happen. They wanted to keep some of it free for future academic buildings since much of the academic space is already built up. The space for the new medical school building will probably fulfill the academic portion of the property. So they ended up putting academics, housing, retail and sports usage into the space.

As far as parking goes, my guess is that REA met the requirements of the city for parking. Parking lot sizes are not determined by peak usage. Have you gone to Columbia Mall during Christmas season? They make parking lots out of the grassy area north of Sears. It isn't as much of a problem now as it used to be, but when Target was located there parking was a huge problem at Columbia Mall. Parking is also a problem at the Alerus Center when they have major events where they have 12-20,000 people. Again they used to make parking lots in the fields across 42nd Street. Now they are building on those fields so I don't know where the overflow parking will come from.

There is enough parking within 4 or 5 blocks for any event held in the REA. As I posted earlier, almost all of that parking is within the same walking distance as the end of the Alerus Center parking lot is to the Alerus Center doors. It seems to be some kind of perception problem. People rarely complain about walking the Alerus Center parking lot, but will complain if they have to walk the same distance at REA or downtown. You can usually find a parking spot within 2 or 3 blocks of anything downtown, but if people can't see the door of their destination from their car it is too far to walk. I think that if you compared REA to most hockey arenas you would find that walking distance from parking to the front door would be very similar.

[bincitysioux]

Before I had season tickets and a parking pass, we used to A) get there real early and look for a spot on one of the streets directly South of REA, B) park in the Med school lot, C) park in the Memorial Stadium lot and ride the bus, or D) park in the Memorial Stadium lot and walk.

Options B and D were some pretty cold-assed walkes in January and February.

I suppose there were financial reasons for discontinuing the bus, but I personally don't like it, and like I said, I have parking pass and didn't use the bus save for once or twice. Parking is a major problem at REA. Trying to park near the Sioux Center for a noon basketball game on the same day as a hockey game is like being interrogated by Homeland Security.

Relatively speaking, it is like 3 times more work to get from your car to the REA vs. getting from your car to the Alerus, Fargodome, Excel, Target Center, Metrodome, etc...........................

[mksioux]

Biggest issue that I have not seen reading through all the comments on this is the most important one. Why did the city of Grand Forks allow the Ralph to skip the required parking, that others are subject to, based on size of the building? You build an apartment building and you have to have x number of parking spots. You build a commercial building and have to have x number of spots. UND had the land to build the parking but chose the more profitable route of commercial development instead.

UND owned the land and, as a State institution, was exempt from the City's parking requirements. UND has historically done all sorts of development on campus that the City wouldn't approve (as-is) if they had the power.

[smokey the cat]

UND owned the land and, as a State institution, was exempt from the City's parking requirements. UND has historically done all sorts of development on campus that the City wouldn't approve (as-is) if they had the power.

Then why do they need a liquor license from the city?

[Snake]

If the break-even point was $20/night to have a shuttle bus (assuming no drop-off in users), would you pay it?

[YaneA]

$20 for a two-block bus ride round trip or each way ? And not including something extra to park? I'd say that would be excessive especially if you have more than 1 person in your party. For a single person, that would add $400- 800 to the cost of a season ticket for remaining games. Is that reasonable to anyone? I'd pay up to $5 round trip for bus ride only. The Ralph and/or athletics need to underwrite this service.

[jdub27]

$20 for a two-block bus ride round trip or each way ? And not including something extra to park? I'd say that would be excessive especially if you have more than 1 person in your party. For a single person, that would add $400- 800 to the cost of a season ticket for remaining games. Is that reasonable to anyone? I'd pay up to $5 round trip for bus ride only. The Ralph and/or athletics need to underwrite this service.

I think it would be a pretty nice goodwill gesture on their part and won't be surprised if they end up doing it but that is a pretty bold statement. There are a lot of ways to get close to the door for those cold nights, but demanding the athletic department to subsidize something that less than 5% of fans use on a given night isn't something that I would consider a necessity.