Goon Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Originally, Bowling Green did indeed try and talk fellow MAC member Buffalo into starting varsity hockey and form a new league. Buffalo is serious about doing it but needs an arena. They were close but had to pass. Ferris would have jumped at that league. BG is mad at Miami and WMU, but they would jump at the NCHC if they got the chance. They are stirring the pot with this and this idea and Miami and WMU want closer travel so the NCHC inviting BG just to end the drama with them wanting to start new leagues might be best. I also think Buffalo Hockey would be a huge success. By going back to the CCHA, I think that WMU and MU would actually be taking a step back. BGSU in it's current state isn't a powerhouse in hockey and almost killed their program. I think the NCHC should tell them, improve your program and we'll consider you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxFanatic Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 If Bowling Green was willing to make the same committments like WMU has towards their hockey program, they probably would've already been invited to the NCHC. I'd be all for Bowling Green joining the conference if they showed they are willing to invest more into their hockey program. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 By going back to the CCHA, I think that WMU and MU would actually be taking a step back. BGSU in it's current state isn't a powerhouse in hockey and almost killed their program. I think the NCHC should tell them, improve your program and we'll consider you. Completely agree, Goon. Bowling Green misses the rivalries with Miami and Western Michigan, but a CCHA 2.0 is NOT the answer to their problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#MACtion Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I agree and I think WMU and Miami also agrees that CCHA 2.0 is a step back. I also agree that the NCHC should let BG in but only if they agree to renovate their arena and better prioritize hockey. And I think BG would agree to that. WMU and Miami already are starting out of conference series with BG again. I think that would be the best outcome for everybody. However there would also need to be a 10th team and pulling a 10th team from the WCHA should not be the case as that then destabilizes the WCHA and then could have indirect negatives toward the NCHC. But who is that team? The only way I see BG's attempt to pull Miami and WMU into a new league work is if they also can talk a couple other MAC teams into launching or re-launching hockey such at Buffalo (they're serious) and ex-CCHA teams that once had varsity hockey that still have good ACHA club teams like Ohio and Kent (but I don't hear anything that suggests that would happen). Thus having BG agree to invest in hockey and bringing them into the NCHC stops all the non-sense new league pot-stirring. WMU, Miami, BG, Buffalo, Ferris, Robert Morris, Niagra, Canisias or something similar is what BG keeps floating out there and the Atlantic Hockey teams would like to break off so they could go full number of scholarships. Miami and WMU don't seem to want anything to do with that proposed league but if an all-MAC type league that BG and Buffalo would probably not mind seeing by getting Ohio or Kent/Akron/NIU/CMU on board than Miami and WMU would start thinking long and hard. The biggest barrier to getting any other MAC team to jump is the cost of the arena as I dont think the cost of sustaining the scholarships would be a big deal for a D1 school. Keep an eye on Akron Basketball who is finalizing approval between U of Akron and the City of Akron to build a brand new $85 million facility in the city for basketball, concerts, and perhaps hockey. It could be the perfect place for two schools (Akron or Kent) to play hockey in. Ohio seems to support hockey well with two ECHL teams in Toledo and Cincy and one AHL team in Cleveland who get nice support and attendance. If the MAC league happened I suppose there would have to be TV coverage picked up by the exising MAC ESPN deal to make it work. BTW, CCHA 2.0 would be a step back, but so would WCHA 2.0 which would be the case if Miami and WMU left so its in everybody's best interest to make this work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#MACtion Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Also, as much as I hated what the Big Ten did by breaking up the WCHA and CCHA, it could really benefit college hockey eventually and bring college hockey main-stream. Big Ten started pushing hockey games and commercials on ESPN and will likely have them include a package of regular games on ESPN with their new Media contract negotiations. Big Ten has the leverage to make ESPN fully push the product if they want football and basketball games as part of a package that ESPN definitely wants. This would bring college hockey content main-stream on ESPN, SportsCenter, and finally coverage on the website. CBS and NBC would follow suit and Notre Dame already has NBC in line with their TV deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#MACtion Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 The National Collegiate Hockey ALLIANCE NCHC West: North Dakota Denver Omaha Colorado College Duluth St. Cloud MAC East: Miami Western Michigan Bowling Green New York (UB) Ohio Northern Illinois Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariucci Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Also, as much as I hated what the Big Ten did by breaking up the WCHA and CCHA, it could really benefit college hockey eventually and bring college hockey main-stream. Big Ten started pushing hockey games and commercials on ESPN and will likely have them include a package of regular games on ESPN with their new Media contract negotiations. Big Ten has the leverage to make ESPN fully push the product if they want football and basketball games as part of a package that ESPN definitely wants. This would bring college hockey content main-stream on ESPN, SportsCenter, and finally coverage on the website. CBS and NBC would follow suit and Notre Dame already has NBC in line with their TV deal. The anti Big Ten hockey crowd has always been short sighted. Ultimately it will be great for the growth of the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberkas Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I agree and I think WMU and Miami also agrees that CCHA 2.0 is a step back. I also agree that the NCHC should let BG in but only if they agree to renovate their arena and better prioritize hockey. And I think BG would agree to that. WMU and Miami already are starting out of conference series with BG again. I think that would be the best outcome for everybody. However there would also need to be a 10th team and pulling a 10th team from the WCHA should not be the case as that then destabilizes the WCHA and then could have indirect negatives toward the NCHC. But who is that team? The only way I see BG's attempt to pull Miami and WMU into a new league work is if they also can talk a couple other MAC teams into launching or re-launching hockey such at Buffalo (they're serious) and ex-CCHA teams that once had varsity hockey that still have good ACHA club teams like Ohio and Kent (but I don't hear anything that suggests that would happen). Thus having BG agree to invest in hockey and bringing them into the NCHC stops all the non-sense new league pot-stirring. WMU, Miami, BG, Buffalo, Ferris, Robert Morris, Niagra, Canisias or something similar is what BG keeps floating out there and the Atlantic Hockey teams would like to break off so they could go full number of scholarships. Miami and WMU don't seem to want anything to do with that proposed league but if an all-MAC type league that BG and Buffalo would probably not mind seeing by getting Ohio or Kent/Akron/NIU/CMU on board than Miami and WMU would start thinking long and hard. The biggest barrier to getting any other MAC team to jump is the cost of the arena as I dont think the cost of sustaining the scholarships would be a big deal for a D1 school. Keep an eye on Akron Basketball who is finalizing approval between U of Akron and the City of Akron to build a brand new $85 million facility in the city for basketball, concerts, and perhaps hockey. It could be the perfect place for two schools (Akron or Kent) to play hockey in. Ohio seems to support hockey well with two ECHL teams in Toledo and Cincy and one AHL team in Cleveland who get nice support and attendance. If the MAC league happened I suppose there would have to be TV coverage picked up by the exising MAC ESPN deal to make it work. BTW, CCHA 2.0 would be a step back, but so would WCHA 2.0 which would be the case if Miami and WMU left so its in everybody's best interest to make this work. Buffalo could just use the new Harbor Center that is being built next to First Niagara Center. Buffalo would have to share the rink with Canisius. If the NCHC expands Iowa State University and University of Cincinnati would be two schools to add. With North Dakota being in the Big Sky Conference I was hoping that the other schools in the Big Sky Conference would look into the possibility of adding hockey. If BGSU finds a way to start a new CCHA they might be careful what they wish for, because Miami and Western Michigan could be the top two teams in that league for a long time. Also, as much as I hated what the Big Ten did by breaking up the WCHA and CCHA, it could really benefit college hockey eventually and bring college hockey main-stream. Big Ten started pushing hockey games and commercials on ESPN and will likely have them include a package of regular games on ESPN with their new Media contract negotiations. Big Ten has the leverage to make ESPN fully push the product if they want football and basketball games as part of a package that ESPN definitely wants. This would bring college hockey content main-stream on ESPN, SportsCenter, and finally coverage on the website. CBS and NBC would follow suit and Notre Dame already has NBC in line with their TV deal. I'm not a fan of ESPN broadcasting college hockey games. The only way ESPN can make their broadcasts better is if ESPN brings back Gary Thorne to replace John Buccigross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariucci Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Buffalo could just use the new Harbor Center that is being built next to First Niagara Center. Buffalo would have to share the rink with Canisius. If the NCHC expands Iowa State University and University of Cincinnati would be two schools to add. With North Dakota being in the Big Sky Conference I was hoping that the other schools in the Big Sky Conference would look into the possibility of adding hockey. If BGSU finds a way to start a new CCHA they might be careful what they wish for, because Miami and Western Michigan could be the top two teams in that league for a long time. I'm not a fan of ESPN broadcasting college hockey games. The only way ESPN can make their broadcasts better is if ESPN brings back Gary Thorne to replace John Buccigross. You're a fan of college hockey but you're not a fan of the most watched sports network televising the sport we love because you don't like the play by play guy? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberkas Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 You're a fan of college hockey but you're not a fan of the most watched sports network televising the sport we love because you don't like the play by play guy? ESPN will never care about hockey at any level. ESPN cares more about what LeBron James does every second of the day then they will ever care about hockey. I'd rather have NBC do the Frozen Four then ESPN because NBC does a better job then ESPN does at broadcasting hockey games. Look at the B1G Network's hockey game broadcasts, if the Gophers are playing it's a love fest for the Gophers that you'd think you're watching FSN North. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 You're a fan of college hockey but you're not a fan of the most watched sports network televising the sport we love because you don't like the play by play guy? Have you ever listened to John Buccigross, count how many times he says wrist shot, I actually invented a new drinking game. Drink every time he says wrist shot. You would be bombed after one period of play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 The anti Big Ten hockey crowd has always been short sighted. Ultimately it will be great for the growth of the sport. There's no evidence at all to back that claim up. If anything it was a power grab by the B1G fans to capitalize on their television money from the BTN. The NCHC was a reaction to this move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 The National Collegiate Hockey ALLIANCE NCHC West: North Dakota Denver Omaha Colorado College Duluth St. Cloud MAC East: Miami Western Michigan Bowling Green New York (UB) Ohio Northern Illinois The MAC would break away with their own league with four or five teams. I can see Buffalo and Akron, but I can't see Ohio and NIU. Both of those two schools are so enamored by football and going higher, they'll spend any money on that sport (and basketball in Ohio's case) and wouldn't spend a dime (or accept a donation) on hockey. Hockey and basketball fanbases don't overlap much, so I don't see the argument that adding hockey would rob basketball funding unless hockey attendance is totally abyssmal. There's teams in the Horizon that make more sense than the MAC other than Buffalo. UWMilwaukee, Green Bay, Wright St, Oakland, maybe even Cleveland St could all have successful teams from an attendance standpoint. Oakland is probably the closest, but the financials of the Horizon don't allow it without a ton of fundraising. I can see Lindenwood wanting to add hockey. They have women's hockey, and they have plans to buy an arena in suburban St. Louis. Highly doubt the NCHC wants them and doubt the WCHA does. Would be interesting to see if a plan for a new conference takes off for BGSU. I could see Ferris, Mercyhurst, Niagara, Canisius, Robert Morris, and UAB having high interest. Add any of Lindenwood, Oakland, GVSU, Buffalo, and perhaps even Syracuse, and it could work. Syracuse would only be a short-timer, as they would try to get in Hockey East with BC and ND. As stated before, I think the NCHC is hoping for Big 12 and Pac 12 teams for expansion (Washington, Texas, Utah, Iowa St, the Arizona's, Oklahoma), Those schools have money coming out of their ears with their TV contracts, they need more programming for the Long Horn Network, and the PAC 12 Network (although that would have to be negotiated with the NCHC), and they really can't spend more on football unless they all have Saban as a coach. A school like Milwaukee would be given serious consideration though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Shot Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 There's no evidence at all to back that claim up. If anything it was a power grab by the B1G fans... I don't think the fans had any sway on the matter and outside of UW none wanted this to happen anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MafiaMan Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 The anti Big Ten hockey crowd has always been short sighted. I would wager a guess that at least 150 of the 300 fans who attended the Penn State/Michigan B10 tournament game last spring would beg to differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cberkas Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 The MAC would break away with their own league with four or five teams. I can see Buffalo and Akron, but I can't see Ohio and NIU. Both of those two schools are so enamored by football and going higher, they'll spend any money on that sport (and basketball in Ohio's case) and wouldn't spend a dime (or accept a donation) on hockey. Hockey and basketball fanbases don't overlap much, so I don't see the argument that adding hockey would rob basketball funding unless hockey attendance is totally abyssmal. There's teams in the Horizon that make more sense than the MAC other than Buffalo. UWMilwaukee, Green Bay, Wright St, Oakland, maybe even Cleveland St could all have successful teams from an attendance standpoint. Oakland is probably the closest, but the financials of the Horizon don't allow it without a ton of fundraising. I can see Lindenwood wanting to add hockey. They have women's hockey, and they have plans to buy an arena in suburban St. Louis. Highly doubt the NCHC wants them and doubt the WCHA does. Would be interesting to see if a plan for a new conference takes off for BGSU. I could see Ferris, Mercyhurst, Niagara, Canisius, Robert Morris, and UAB having high interest. Add any of Lindenwood, Oakland, GVSU, Buffalo, and perhaps even Syracuse, and it could work. Syracuse would only be a short-timer, as they would try to get in Hockey East with BC and ND. As stated before, I think the NCHC is hoping for Big 12 and Pac 12 teams for expansion (Washington, Texas, Utah, Iowa St, the Arizona's, Oklahoma), Those schools have money coming out of their ears with their TV contracts, they need more programming for the Long Horn Network, and the PAC 12 Network (although that would have to be negotiated with the NCHC), and they really can't spend more on football unless they all have Saban as a coach. A school like Milwaukee would be given serious consideration though. Well Lindenwood is in St. Charles Missouri and they're hosting the Women's Frozen Four at Family Arena which hold 9,643 for hockey. There is already a PAC 8 hockey conference (Arizona State, UCLA, USC, Washington, Oregon, Utah, Washington State, and California) the PAC 8 is ACHA D1 if I remember right. It looks like USC plays at the Anaheim Ducks practice facility. It looks like UCLA plays at the LA Kings practice facility. Utah plays at a building that has two Olympic sheets of ice the rink Utah plays in seats 2,500. It also looks like Utah State, BYU, and Weber State have hockey teams that play Utah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Arena Man Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I would wager a guess that at least 150 of the 300 fans who attended the Penn State/Michigan B10 tournament game last spring would beg to differ. Hey, don't make fun of me, I was one fans that attended that game, spent most of the second and third period in the only bar open on the first floor of the X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariucci Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 There's no evidence at all to back that claim up. If anything it was a power grab by the B1G fans to capitalize on their television money from the BTN. The NCHC was a reaction to this move. No evidence? Are you aware that last season there were more nationally televised college hockey games than ever before? That's a direct result of the Big Ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 No evidence? Are you aware that last season there were more nationally televised college hockey games than ever before? That's a direct result of the Big Ten. Yeah ... Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back. The B1G was only one part of that. You also had the Hockey East deal with NBCSN and CBSSN with the NCHC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I would wager a guess that at least 150 of the 300 fans who attended the Penn State/Michigan B10 tournament game last spring would beg to differ. That had to cost the Xcel Energy Center a lot of money to open the building for hockey game that no one saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#MACtion Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Yeah ... Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back. The B1G was only one part of that. You also had the Hockey East deal with NBCSN and CBSSN with the NCHC. If I'm not mistaken there is no Hockey East NBCSN TV Deal, it is a Notre Dame TV deal. 12 Notre Dame home games and 4 random HE games per year. The NCHC TV deal much better than the Hockey East TV deal for everybody not named Notre Dame. The contract was signed by ND not HE except for the HE playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#MACtion Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Anyway, the break-up of the CCHA and WCHA by the Big Ten is what led to the new TV deals. Notre Dame was allowed to pursue their own national deal and the Big Ten can now leverage their conference to force ESPN to promote college hockey. ESPN was never really interested in college hockey or promoted it until now. You can't just buy the "sports section" of the New York Times, if you want to buy the "sports section" you also have to buy the "business section", "weather section", and "comics" whether you read them or want them or not. If ESPN wants to buy the "football and basketball" section of the Big Ten Times (and they do) in this current round of negotiations being worked on now, they will also be forced to buy the "hockey section" whether they want it or not as the Big Ten is demanding it. They couldn't do that before when they were split up and not banded together under the conference umbrella. ESPN will have a college hockey section on the website eventually and contractually have to promote it. NBC and CBS must now follow suit. ESPN was experimenting with BT hockey this past season. It also gave the Big Ten Channel more leeway to promote and broadcast the sport. ESPN is the market-maker and will be creating the market for the entire sport. Rising tide lifts all boats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goon Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 If I'm not mistaken there is no Hockey East NBCSN TV Deal, it is a Notre Dame TV deal. 12 Notre Dame home games and 4 random HE games per year. The NCHC TV deal much better than the Hockey East TV deal for everybody not named Notre Dame. The contract was signed by ND not HE except for the HE playoffs. Correct, but there was 12 games on the national stage. UND actually benefited from that TV deal for one game. There was also at least 18 NCHC games plus three Frozen Faceoff on National TV. It's not just the B1G Ten that's benefitting from the Conference Shakeups. Also, if you have DirecTV, you're able to get a lot of College Hockey if you have the sports pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#MACtion Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Correct, but there was 12 games on the national stage. UND actually benefited from that TV deal for one game. There was also at least 18 NCHC games plus three Frozen Faceoff on National TV. It's not just the B1G Ten that's benefitting from the Conference Shakeups. Also, if you have DirecTV, you're able to get a lot of College Hockey if you have the sports pack. Yes, its not just the Big Ten benefiting but they were the catalyst. Now they are off on their own, they will be working with ESPN who will have exclusivity. That exclusivity pulled Big Ten home games away from both CBSSN and NBCSN. The Notre Dame / NBCSN TV deal was also a result of the Big Ten breaking up the conferences as they needed a home. NBCSN has exclusivity of ND home games that CBSSN can now no longer broadcast. Thus CBSSN who would have otherwise scheduled a bunch of Big Ten, Notre Dame, and Hockey East games (Boston College) was left without programming because of exclusivity. Thus the rise of programming for NCHC teams that otherwise wouldn't have gotten as many games televised as they will going forward. As ESPN gets involved promoting college hockey, the demand will also increase for everybody as they bring the sport forward for everybody to become interested in. ESPN/ABC is already bringing a sport, soccer, forward that most Americans are unfamiliar with and is foreign to them and had huge ratings for a World Cup playoffs that didn't even have the US team in it. The same will be done for a foreign / unfamiliar sport College Hockey that will be thrust upon them started by the Big Ten who had the leverage to force their hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Yes, its not just the Big Ten benefiting but they were the catalyst. Now they are off on their own, they will be working with ESPN who will have exclusivity. That exclusivity pulled Big Ten home games away from both CBSSN and NBCSN. The Notre Dame / NBCSN TV deal was also a result of the Big Ten breaking up the conferences as they needed a home. NBCSN has exclusivity of ND home games that CBSSN can now no longer broadcast. Thus CBSSN who would have otherwise scheduled a bunch of Big Ten, Notre Dame, and Hockey East games (Boston College) was left without programming because of exclusivity. Thus the rise of programming for NCHC teams that otherwise wouldn't have gotten as many games televised as they will going forward. As ESPN gets involved promoting college hockey, the demand will also increase for everybody as they bring the sport forward for everybody to become interested in. ESPN/ABC is already bringing a sport, soccer, forward that most Americans are unfamiliar with and is foreign to them and had huge ratings for a World Cup playoffs that didn't even have the US team in it. The same will be done for a foreign / unfamiliar sport College Hockey that will be thrust upon them started by the Big Ten who had the leverage to force their hand. If ESPN starts showing more sports and less soap opera, maybe I'll start watching it again..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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