Vikings

[MafiaMan]

Don't worry, they'll screw it up...

Yes they will.

Whooda thunk that the Houston Texans and Atlanta Falcons would be in the mix for the NFL's worst record this season?

[fightingsioux4life]

That Tommy Kramer guy threw for almost 25,000 yards and 159 touchdowns with the Vikings. Granted, he also tossed 157 interceptions, but still...I don't know if I would say 'hasn't been settled since Tarkenton retired.'

"That Tommy Kramer guy" also wasn't very durable and liked his alcohol a little too much. I think both of those things prevented him from maximizing his full potential. He was okay, but he wasn't what you need in a franchise QB. And the QB position is way more important today than it was in the 1980's (look up Packers, Green Bay for proof of this).

[Rory]

"That Tommy Kramer guy" also wasn't very durable and liked his alcohol a little too much. I think both of those things prevented him from maximizing his full potential. He was okay, but he wasn't what you need in a franchise QB. And the QB position is way more important today than it was in the 1980's (look up Packers, Green Bay for proof of this).

He also loved the white powder. His partying stories are epic. Could of been a hall of fame type QB if he hadn't partied so much.

[MafiaMan]

"That Tommy Kramer guy" also wasn't very durable and liked his alcohol a little too much. I think both of those things prevented him from maximizing his full potential. He was okay, but he wasn't what you need in a franchise QB. And the QB position is way more important today than it was in the 1980's (look up Packers, Green Bay for proof of this).

I agree on the durability and personal issues but disagree in terms of 'franchise' QB. Like it or not, from about 1979 thru the late 1980's, Tommy was the face of the Vikings. First QB to throw for 450 yards in a game (and he did it TWICE), 6 TD's thrown in a game, and highest-rated QB of 1986.

QB's weren't important in the 1980's? How good was Green Bay in those years?

[fightingsioux4life]

I agree on the durability and personal issues but disagree in terms of 'franchise' QB. Like it or not, from about 1979 thru the late 1980's, Tommy was the face of the Vikings. First QB to throw for 450 yards in a game (and he did it TWICE), 6 TD's thrown in a game, and highest-rated QB of 1986.

QB's weren't important in the 1980's? How good was Green Bay in those years?

I am not saying QB's weren't important in the 1980's; of course they were. But the game wasn't nearly as passing oriented as it is today. Most coaches still stuck to running the ball twice and throwing it on 3rd down if it was too long to run for it. The 49ers were ahead of their time and thus won four titles. The Dolphins terrorized the league with Dan Marino for years before teams figured out how to slow him down. Today, the NFL is extremely pass-oriented and if you don't have a QB, you are screwed. For example, the Vikings offense of today (built around AP with an average QB) might have performed better in the 1980's when the running game was still considered the most important part of the offense. Now teams routinely use the pass to set up the run, instead of vise-versa.

[MafiaMan]

I am not saying QB's weren't important in the 1980's; of course they were. But the game wasn't nearly as passing oriented as it is today.

...So how do you explain QB's like Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer wearing Super Bowl rings?

[fightingsioux4life]

...So how do you explain QB's like Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer wearing Super Bowl rings?

They were lucky enough to be on teams with legendary defenses. Very few defenses ever reach the levels of the 2000 Ravens and the 2002 Bucs.

[jodcon]

"That Tommy Kramer guy" also wasn't very durable and liked his alcohol a little too much. I think both of those things prevented him from maximizing his full potential. He was okay, but he wasn't what you need in a franchise QB. And the QB position is way more important today than it was in the 1980's (look up Packers, Green Bay for proof of this).

Last Call Tommy is what we called him when he played, liked football and bars.

Was 100 times better than this bunch though.

[MafiaMan]

So which 1980's QB would you get rid of in an era where the QB wasn't as important as it is today?

Bradshaw? Plunkett? Montana? Theismann? McMahon? Simms? Williams?

I think QB in the 1980's was just as important as today, but that's just my opinion.

[MafiaMan]

They were lucky enough to be on teams with legendary defenses. Very few defenses ever reach the levels of the 2000 Ravens and the 2002 Bucs.

That Bucs defense was something else. I'm stunned that that team didn't win another Super Bowl.

Back to the Vikings...obviously QB is a need. Obviously Tampa Bay made the right decision with respect to Josh Freeman...it's time for the Vikings do the same thing with him...and Ponder.

[fightingsioux4life]

So which 1980's QB would you get rid of in an era where the QB wasn't as important as it is today?

Bradshaw? Plunkett? Montana? Theismann? McMahon? Simms? Williams?

I think QB in the 1980's was just as important as today, but that's just my opinion.

Bradshaw: Should be ranked as a 1970's QB. Overrated. Carried by the Steel Curtain Defense. Sell.

Plunkett: A solid game manager, but not a consistently great QB. Sell.

Montana: The greatest of all time. Buy.

Theismann: Ran Joe Gibbs' offense very well. Career cut short by Lawerence Taylor on MNF (if you are queasy, don't watch it). Buy.

McMahon: Managed to produce decent resuts with Ditka breathing down his neck. Rode Buddy Ryan's 46 D to Super Bowl title. Sell.

Simms: Better QB than he gets credit for. Buy.

Williams: Had one great Super Bowl performance. Other than that...... Sell.

Answer this question: Would guys like McMahon, Plunkett and Bradshaw be stars in today's NFL? I say heck no, they would be pedestrian back-ups at best.

In 2013, more teams pass the ball more often, at a more prolific pace than they ever have in the history of the game. The running game is used as a distraction by some teams. And the teams that do run it more use a running back by committee approach (with the exception of teams with AP-type running backs). That was the point I was trying to make. But you are also right; QBs have been important in the NFL ever since they legalized the forward pass and stopped running the single-wing.

[fightingsioux4life]

That Bucs defense was something else. I'm stunned that that team didn't win another Super Bowl.

Back to the Vikings...obviously QB is a need. Obviously Tampa Bay made the right decision with respect to Josh Freeman...it's time for the Vikings do the same thing with him...and Ponder.

I actually think the 2000 Ravens rank a little higher than the 2002 Bucs, but they were both very good.

[MafiaMan]

Williams: Had one great Super Bowl performance. Other than that...... Sell.

C'mon, he played half of his career with a TERRIBLE Tampa Bay team! Great team leader.

[fightingsioux4life]

C'mon, he played half of his career with a TERRIBLE Tampa Bay team! Great team leader.

Opps, I always forget about that. Vinny Testaverde also had his career diminished by playing for the then-woeful Bucs. Bill Walsh rescued Steve Young before his career was wasted.

[Fetch]

I always liked Tommy Kramer - always felt like we had a chance - these running QBs cannot hold up to the punishment (maybe for a yr or two but long term no way)

[MafiaMan]

Opps, I always forget about that. Vinny Testaverde also had his career diminished by playing for the then-woeful Bucs. Bill Walsh rescued Steve Young before his career was wasted.

Best line ever by a coach (John McKay) when asked by the media about his team's (that would be Tampa Bay's) execution: "I'm all for it."

[jodcon]

Best line ever by a coach (John McKay) when asked by the media about his team's (that would be Tampa Bay's) execution: "I'm all for it."

He had another good line too, something like "We didn't block well but we made up for it....we didn't tackle well either."

[MafiaMan]

He had another good line too, something like "We didn't block well but we made up for it....we didn't tackle well either."

He had many others...here's another goodie after the 1968 tie with Notre Dame in which the Irish were helped by a couple of iffy calls. McKay was asked about the officiating: "I'm not surprised. The referee is a fine Catholic fellow by the name of Patrick Murphy."

[Oxbow6]

Best line ever by a coach (John McKay) when asked by the media about his team's (that would be Tampa Bay's) execution: "I'm all for it."

Classic!

[SWSiouxMN]

One option out the door today: Oregon's QB is coming back to school.

Honestly, other than Manzel (and even I think he might go back 1 more year) who will come early? I really think it will end up being 1 prize and that will be Bridgewater.

[FightingSuhaki]

One option out the door today: Oregon's QB is coming back to school.

Honestly, other than Manzel (and even I think he might go back 1 more year) who will come early? I really think it will end up being 1 prize and that will be Bridgewater.

Heard that too. I am still hoping for Johnny Football. I wouldn't mind Teddy Bridgewater. But as long as Ponder isn't starting next year, I'll be happy.

[MafiaMan]

Heard that too. I am still hoping for Johnny Football. I wouldn't mind Teddy Bridgewater. But as long as Ponder isn't starting next year, I'll be happy.

It's a hunch, but I think Johnny Football is closer to being the next Ryan Leaf than the next Peyton Manning.

[Fetch]

Wow the Vikings rookies are looking great

[Uncle_Rico]

It's like watching a comedy. Unbelievable.

[Wilbur]

Yeah be as upset as you want at that one, but no reason to win that game. They have to get better at the QB position and they aren't going to do it by winning meaningless games on the road without AP.

Hold AP out the rest of the year and finish 3-12-1.

May be time though to think about a new late game philosophy on defense. Thats the definition of $hitting the bed about five times at the end of games.