Building UND Athletics

[tnt]

That's strange since donations to the Champions Club are the highest they've ever been and UND just surpassed a $300 million dollar fundraising goal from the Spirit Campaign(currently at $324 million). Sounds like those people who you know who quit donating must not have been donating to begin with.

Don't cloud his ranting with facts!

[UNDBIZ]

that's what i was thinking...it's kind of like the mafia over there at REA with a lot of cronyism???

A LOT of full time employees over there. Not sure what they all do during the offseason.

[fightingsioux4life]

that's what i was thinking...it's kind of like the mafia over there at REA with a lot of cronyism???

Be careful, you'll be roasted for not "appreciating the gift"!

I have asked this question over and over and over again on this forum and all I get is static in response or people refuse to answer the question and change the subject. REA was built, in part, to give UND athletics a huge revenue stream that would support all of our programs. REA is supposed to serve UND, not the other way around.

[gfhockey]

Put on the green shades boys and sip the koolaid!

[gfhockey]

Unless u dont agree with the head coaches and ad u will be roasted on this baord....its sickening but it is what it is.. i wish everyone on this baord would have bought a car from me when i sold cars!

[SIOUXFAN97]

Be careful, you'll be roasted for not "appreciating the gift"!

I have asked this question over and over and over again on this forum and all I get is static in response or people refuse to answer the question and change the subject. REA was built, in part, to give UND athletics a huge revenue stream that would support all of our programs. REA is supposed to serve UND, not the other way around.

with the ralph and the betty taking in all the revenue from mens bball, womens bball, womens vball, mens hockey, and womens hockey are we (und athletics) losing money on this deal???

[fightingsioux4life]

with the ralph and the betty taking in all the revenue from mens bball, womens bball, womens vball, mens hockey, and womens hockey are we (und athletics) losing money on this deal???

I don't think we are "losing" money, but we are not getting the level of profit that REA boosters said we would when the arena was being designed and constructed. That is a fair question to ask and it is not out of line to expect an honest answer.

[jdub27]

Be careful, you'll be roasted for not "appreciating the gift"!

I have asked this question over and over and over again on this forum and all I get is static in response or people refuse to answer the question and change the subject. REA was built, in part, to give UND athletics a huge revenue stream that would support all of our programs. REA is supposed to serve UND, not the other way around.

If you don't think UND athletics is in a much better place than because of the Ralph and also the Betty then I'm not sure what kind of reality you live in. The tax returns for all of the entities are freely available to look through as they all operate as non-profits. Go ahead and point out where money is being wasted or withheld from UND. I've sat in on a presentation by Jody Hodgson a few years ago and they are open with the dollar amount directed back to UND along with other income that passes back to them. And at some point, UND will take over the building, meaning all the upgrades and maintenance that is being put back into the building instead of just going to UND will benefit UND.

What was the level of profit that was "promised" to UND vs what they are getting?

[SIOUXFAN97]

If you don't think UND athletics is in a much better place than because of the Ralph and also the Betty then I'm not sure what kind of reality you live in. The tax returns for all of the entities are freely available to look through as they all operate as non-profits. Go ahead and point out where money is being wasted or withheld from UND. I've sat in on a presentation by Jody Hodgson a few years ago and they are open with the dollar amount directed back to UND along with other income that passes back to them. And at some point, UND will take over the building, meaning all the upgrades and maintenance that is being put back into the building instead of just going to UND will benefit UND.

What was the level of profit that was "promised" to UND vs what they are getting?

that would be nice to have a link to that tax return?? plus it would be nice to find out what was "promised" years ago to what actually happening now....and just like most non-profit entities there seems to be a lot of "managers" and "assistant managers" on the payroll over there and few redundant last names on the arena directory???

[BobIwabuchiFan]

Be careful, you'll be roasted for not "appreciating the gift"!

I have asked this question over and over and over again on this forum and all I get is static in response or people refuse to answer the question and change the subject. REA was built, in part, to give UND athletics a huge revenue stream that would support all of our programs. REA is supposed to serve UND, not the other way around.

Its pretty easy to see how much the football program is draining from the budget...I think the whole football program budget would cover the rest of the non-hockey sports if I remember correctly. Once Football actually puts out a profitable product, then we will be flush with cash...Until then, bitching about REA hockey contributions is ignoring the 600 lb fat man in the room called "UND Football".

[The Sicatoka]

I'm familiar with the reporting that a non-profit has to do. There is far more disclosure, and salary reporting, and relationship reporting, that has to be done in comparison to a private corporation. The IRS is always looking for a way to rip away that non-profit/tax exempt status, and if you hand them the rope to hang you with on your Form 990 all the better in their eyes.

[The Sicatoka]

Its pretty easy to see how much the football program is draining from the budget...I think the whole football program budget would cover the rest of the non-hockey sports if I remember correctly. Once Football actually puts out a profitable product, then we will be flush with cash...Until then, bitching about REA hockey contributions is ignoring the 600 lb fat man in the room called "UND Football".

To Bob's point: What would the overall budgets look like without The REA and hockey revenues?

[fightingsioux4life]

Its pretty easy to see how much the football program is draining from the budget...I think the whole football program budget would cover the rest of the non-hockey sports if I remember correctly. Once Football actually puts out a profitable product, then we will be flush with cash...Until then, bitching about REA hockey contributions is ignoring the 600 lb fat man in the room called "UND Football".

Well, I have also broached the idea of dropping football and going without it like Denver does if we aren't willing to do what it takes to put a solid product on the field, so if you want to discuss it I am game.

As for REA, I don't have any documents or even any "insider info", but with all the beer, concessions, merchandise and whatever else they sell from October-March (along with all the non-hockey events they have), UND should have a significant advantage over the other Dakota schools, who don't have anything like this. It is a fair question and I will not shut up about it.

[jdub27]

It is a fair question and I will not shut up about it.

So are you going to complain on a message board or actually contact Jody Hodgson or Brian Faison to get the information? The majority of what you claim to want should be available to the public.

[SIOUXFAN97]

Well, I have also broached the idea of dropping football and going without it like Denver does if we aren't willing to do what it takes to put a solid product on the field, so if you want to discuss it I am game.

As for REA, I don't have any documents or even any "insider info", but with all the beer, concessions, merchandise and whatever else they sell from October-March (along with all the non-hockey events they have), UND should have a significant advantage over the other Dakota schools, who don't have anything like this. It is a fair question and I will not shut up about it.

"(along with all the non-hockey events they have)"---i've heard they get up to 40k for a wedding reception???

[Matt]

that would be nice to have a link to that tax return?? plus it would be nice to find out what was "promised" years ago to what actually happening now....and just like most non-profit entities there seems to be a lot of "managers" and "assistant managers" on the payroll over there and few redundant last names on the arena directory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krD4hdGvGHM

[SiouxVolley]

NDSU doesn't make money from football, but UND hockey operates in the black (like Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma football), even with the expense of the REA. There are simply not many programs that operate in the black. The UND athletics financials don't include the expenses of running the REA (or the revenue from the many concerts, receptions, and other events they provide). When the REA becomes part of the UND athletics budget, UND's athletic budget will be much larger (Mountain West size).

Dumping Mussman (guaranteed contract) and installing a new coach is going to make UND football even more of a money pit. If we are arguing what the best path for UND financially, keeping Mussman til his contract expires may be the cheapest option, as football tickets don't provide much.

[UND1983]

Well, I have also broached the idea of dropping football and going without it like Denver does if we aren't willing to do what it takes to put a solid product on the field, so if you want to discuss it I am game.

As for REA, I don't have any documents or even any "insider info", but with all the beer, concessions, merchandise and whatever else they sell from October-March (along with all the non-hockey events they have), UND should have a significant advantage over the other Dakota schools, who don't have anything like this. It is a fair question and I will not shut up about it.

I was told directly from the athletic department that as of a few years ago, UND does not get anywhere near the money they should be getting at the end of the year. Apparently the REA is supposed to "write UND a check" (however you say that in non-profit accounting terms) at the end of the year.

[iramurphy]

Its pretty easy to see how much the football program is draining from the budget...I think the whole football program budget would cover the rest of the non-hockey sports if I remember correctly. Once Football actually puts out a profitable product, then we will be flush with cash...Until then, bitching about REA hockey contributions is ignoring the 600 lb fat man in the room called "UND Football".

REA has been a great boost to UND athletics. There was never a "promise" of a stated amount of money. I haven't seen a spread sheet for UND athletics but last time I saw an accurate summary UND FB wasn't losing $$. You may not be old enough to remember when UND FB supported hockey and a number of other sports. UND MBB and WBB have been profitable in the past. The Englestad gift guarantees UND hockey will be profitable and it should. The gift was also to help other UND sports. We did have some issues with the previous REA guy who was let go. He didn't want to do anything for UND athletics. (was an AC guy). Iwabucci guy, if you don't like other Sioux sports then go enjoy hockey. I was around when hockey needed FB and as athletes we had a great relationship with each other and had the same fan base. Hockey will need FB and other sports to be maximize chance of continued success. For those whinign about FB you can either be part of the problem or part of the solution. Donate $$ with a note to Kelly you want this program turned around now. Encourage all area kids to attend UND athletes or not. Don't need to see tax returns. No one is doing anything illegal and unless your name is Englestad it is none of our business. Just say thanks and enjoy.

[SiouxVolley]

Well, I have also broached the idea of dropping football and going without it like Denver does if we aren't willing to do what it takes to put a solid product on the field, so if you want to discuss it I am game.

As for REA, I don't have any documents or even any "insider info", but with all the beer, concessions, merchandise and whatever else they sell from October-March (along with all the non-hockey events they have), UND should have a significant advantage over the other Dakota schools, who don't have anything like this. It is a fair question and I will not shut up about it.

UND will be kicked out of the Big Sky then. That's why Denver can not get in the Big Sky; because the Big Sky demands it. If you want UND athletics to be more profitable, go all the way and drop everything.

Face it, we should be thankful for our unusual mix of sports. Bison fans mock it, but there football doesn't even run profitable. But all the Big Sky schools are envious of our revenue mix: that's exactly why we were invited. MAC schools can't generate the revenue we do except by student fees.

[jdub27]

I was told directly from the athletic department that as of a few years ago, UND does not get anywhere near the money they should be getting at the end of the year. Apparently the REA is supposed to "write UND a check" (however you say that in non-profit accounting terms) at the end of the year.

The report I saw a few years ago showed that this "check" is going to UND.

[gfhockey]

MMaybe that check bounced?

[UND1983]

The report I saw a few years ago showed that this "check" is going to UND.

That is what I said. However, it isn't near what it 'should be' is what I was told.

[UNDBIZ]

Dumping Mussman (guaranteed contract) and installing a new coach is going to make UND football even more of a money pit. If we are arguing what the best path for UND financially, keeping Mussman til his contract expires may be the cheapest option, as football tickets don't provide much.

From the expense side, yes, dropping Muss results in added expense for UND. However, once loss of revenue, brand, and goodwill are factored in, the school would be better off firing him (4 years ago). Long-term damage has been and is being done to the program and school every week he remains. It's difficult to admit, but Moo U is winning the battle over UND for the hearts and minds right now. I wouldn't be surprised if ndsu's football team was a factor in UND's freshman enrollment dropping 20% this year.

[SiouxVolley]

From the expense side, yes, dropping Muss results in added expense for UND. However, once loss of revenue, brand, and goodwill are factored in, the school would be better off firing him (4 years ago). Long-term damage has been and is being done to the program and school every week he remains. It's difficult to admit, but Moo U is winning the battle over UND for the hearts and minds right now. I wouldn't be surprised if ndsu's football team was a factor in UND's freshman enrollment dropping 20% this year.

Of course. But even the changing of a football coach doesn't necessarily mean a winning coach. Bohl won because of recruiting classes 4-5years ago. This years recruiting class isn't going to turn UND's program on a dime with a new coach.