Building UND Athletics

[WeAreNorthDakota]

You tend to forget about women's hockey. Pretty much neutralizes a lot of money. I highly doubt you could get the big money for fb from the fans as they are being tapped out with hockey. If you had a larger home base then maybe. Ever think that hockey might be holding the "other" sports back?

I think women's hockey should be close to breaking even every year if they can maintain a top 2 or 3 spot in national attendance. They certainly won't be a big drain on a budget. Same goes for volleyball, which I imagine is a much cheaper sport to run. That makes the 5th and 6th biggest sports at UND who are having a minimal impact on the budget. Couple that with a huge revenue sport in hockey, and a potential big revenue sport in football and you have an athletic department that is set up for long term stability.

p.s. If anybody has women's hockey or volleyball figures that proves me wrong, please provide them. I'm just going on assumptions and a basic knowledge of how college athletics works from a business standpoint.

[The Sicatoka]

Nope. Man it must have hurt Terry to write this column. http://terryvandrovec.tumblr.com/

That number for UND is only going to grow. I have heard football season ticket sales had a nice bump this offseason. And hopefully with the women's and men's basketball teams finally being in a conference thier attendance will increase. Also, every women's volleyball game seemed to have more and more people at it last year as the season went a long. Huge number and still a lot of room for improvement, without having to spend any money on new facilities.

I'm thinking Vandrovec got the idea for that article about ticket sales and revenues from reading ... this thread, specifically the nice work and analysis done by FSSD (posts 69, 70, and beyond).

[UNDvince97-01]

Idalski lands 2-year contract extension

What a great investment for the UND Athletic Department.

[tnt]

For all you delusional people women's hockey is the golden goose. There happy?

Big difference between characterized as a golden goose and a money pit.

[Ole in MSP]

Big difference between characterized as a golden goose and a money pit.

And envy is the highest form of flattery. They and a lot of other schools wish they had a D1 program like our W Hockey program. I only wish our softball progam, track and field, golf, and others can emulate or surpass those at NDSU where they have had pretty solid success.

[GeauxSioux]

No big surprise.... Hardee extended through 2016 season

University of North Dakota Athletics Director Brian Faison announced today that head volleyball coach Ashley Hardee has received a one-year contract extension that will keep him at the helm of the program through the 2016 season.

Through his first three seasons as head coach, Hardee has led UND to three straight Great West Conference Tournament championships and a 73-16 (.820) overall record, including a 31-3 (.912) conference mark.

[Bison Dan]

Big difference between characterized as a golden goose and a money pit.

Money pit. Have yet to talk to a hockey fan that thinks different.

[UNDColorado]

Money pit. Have yet to talk to a hockey fan that thinks different.

I find it hard to believe that a team that is second in the nation in attendance is a money pit. No golden goose by any stretch and maybe not even a profit, but certainly no money pit. Keep trolling.

[UNDvince97-01]

No big surprise.... Hardee extended through 2016 season

Great job by Faison to keep Hardee around. He has definitely taken the volleyball program to another level.

And let's not kid ourselves, womens hockey is a Title IX money pit nightmare for our athletic department.

[The Sicatoka]

If college athletics programs, sport by sport, had to be fiscally self-sustaining, how many would exist?

I'm guessing a few FB programs, some MBB programs, a couple WBB programs, a couple mens hockey programs, and not much else.

So in all honesty, everything else, 90% or more of college athletics, is a "money pit".

[UNDvince97-01]

If college athletics programs, sport by sport, had to be fiscally self-sustaining, how many would exist?

I'm guessing a few FB programs, some MBB programs, a couple WBB programs, a couple mens hockey programs, and not much else.

So in all honesty, everything else, 90% or more of college athletics, is a "money pit".

I don't really argue with anything you say here and you have a point to a certain degree.

It's just that womens hockey is so extremely financially inept. I'd love to see the balance sheet on that budget.

[The Sicatoka]

The problem is Congress* and the Federal law called Title IX which mandates schools offer equivalent opportunities for mens and womens sports.

Call your Congressman.

The other option is to ignore Title IX and be taken to task by the Federal Justice Department. Hint: Womens hockey is cheap compared to that.

* Title IX is Federal law, not an NCAA rule or policy.

[UND-1]

Great job by Faison to keep Hardee around. He has definitely taken the volleyball program to another level.

And let's not kid ourselves, womens hockey is a Title IX money pit nightmare for our athletic department.

And on top of that UND pays their womens hockey coach more than their FB coach.

[UNDvince97-01]

The problem is Congress* and the Federal law called Title IX which mandates schools offer equivalent opportunities for mens and womens sports.

Call your Congressman.

The other option is to ignore Title IX and be taken to task by the Federal Justice Department. Hint: Womens hockey is cheap compared to that.

* Title IX is Federal law, not an NCAA rule or policy.

I explicitly referred to Title IX in a previous post. Never have I questioned the legality of it.

We can agree or disagree whether you or I like Title IX or not.

However, the fact still remains that Womens Hockey is a fiscal disaster, correct?

[82SiouxGuy]

I explicitly referred to Title IX in a previous post. Never have I questioned the legality of it.

We can agree or disagree whether you or I like Title IX or not.

However, the fact still remains that Womens Hockey is a fiscal disaster, correct?

Disaster is a strong word. Do you know that women's hockey is that much worse than swimming and diving, or soccer or track and field or any other sport other than the major sports? Women's hockey does attract more attention than most of the Olympic sports. People do attend the games. Players from the team were on Olympic teams for multiple countries. So there is some PR value. Does it attract some donors? I have no idea about the balance sheet for hockey, but I'm not going to assume that it is a fiscal disaster.

Everyone assumes that hockey is so expensive, and it is more expensive than many other sports. I have a brother with a boy that plays hockey and a girl that dances. He says that they spend more money on dancing than they do on hockey, and that includes a lot of travel expenses for hockey tournaments. That is at youth levels, not the collegiate level. But maybe the expenses for some of the other sports add up to numbers in the same range as women's hockey. It would be interesting to see a breakdown. But even if it is expensive, as tSic notes, the program serves several purposes including meeting Title IX standards. And it is a program that has a chance to compete for National Championships. So it is important to the athletic department as a whole.

[UNDvince97-01]

Disaster is a strong word. Do you know that women's hockey is that much worse than swimming and diving, or soccer or track and field or any other sport other than the major sports?

Yes. Disaster, money pit, black hole, whatever. Discussion about semantics and hyperbole is pretty pointless.

He says that they spend more money on dancing than they do on hockey, and that includes a lot of travel expenses for hockey tournaments.

Then thank goodness we don't have a college dancing program I guess.

But even if it is expensive, as tSic notes, the program serves several purposes including meeting Title IX standards. And it is a program that has a chance to compete for National Championships. So it is important to the athletic department as a whole.

Agreed. Again, I really do understand the purpose of Title IX and how it works. I referred to it my first post on this thread. Title IX compliance doesn't take away the facts about the numbers. Even if Women's Hockey wasn't a Title IX sport, it would still grossly operate in the red on the Pro Forma.

All I did was join the discussion on whether or not Women's Hockey is a "money pit". Some people don't want to hear it, but the fact is that it is right now. My understanding is that they take in less than half of the very little ticket revenue they generate and NONE of concession sales at REA.

Having said that, I really hope the program catches on and gets to the point when it's not a financial burden for the athletic department sooner rather than later.

[The Sicatoka]

Then thank goodness we don't have a college dancing program I guess.

Uh ... yes, UND does. Last time I saw them they really, ... uh ... well ... uh ... , they're getting better.

[UNDvince97-01]

Uh ... yes, UND does. Last time I saw them they really, ... uh ... well ... uh ... , they're getting better.

Thanks for the correction Sic.

EDIT: I should have added "on the UND Budget"

"Cost to dance for a first-year dancer is typically around $150. Please note this does not include the cost of competition."

[The Sicatoka]

You stopped at being on the base dance team; you didn't read far enough ...

Cost to be on the competition team including nationals is typically $1,500 ...

[82SiouxGuy]

All I did was join the discussion on whether or not Women's Hockey is a "money pit". Some people don't want to hear it, but the fact is that it is right now. My understanding is that they take in less than half of the very little ticket revenue they generate and NONE of concession sales at REA.

Having said that, I really hope the program catches on and gets to the point when it's not a financial burden for the athletic department sooner rather than later.

Again I'll ask, do you actually know that it is a fiscal disaster or is this just your impression? Do you know that it costs that much more than any of the other sports not named basketball, football or men's hockey? Have you seen a breakdown on costs and revenues by sport?

The women's hockey team may take in less than half of the ticket revenue and none of the concession sales DIRECTLY. But the athletic department gets all profits from REA. So if the women's hockey team is helping pay the bills at REA through ticket sales revenue and concession sales, then it may be helping the athletic department indirectly. That number would probably be hard to quantify. My entire point is that just making a statement, like saying that women's hockey is a fiscal disaster, is easy to say. But I would prefer to get some facts and figures to prove it one way or the other rather than just accept the broad, sweeping generalization.

[Siouxperfan7]

Again I'll ask, do you actually know that it is a fiscal disaster or is this just your impression? Do you know that it costs that much more than any of the other sports not named basketball, football or men's hockey? Have you seen a breakdown on costs and revenues by sport?

The women's hockey team may take in less than half of the ticket revenue and none of the concession sales DIRECTLY. But the athletic department gets all profits from REA. So if the women's hockey team is helping pay the bills at REA through ticket sales revenue and concession sales, then it may be helping the athletic department indirectly. That number would probably be hard to quantify. My entire point is that just making a statement, like saying that women's hockey is a fiscal disaster, is easy to say. But I would prefer to get some facts and figures to prove it one way or the other rather than just accept the broad, sweeping generalization.

Broad sweeping generalizations that aren't backed up by facts ......what is this bisonville.com??!!!

[UNDvince97-01]

Again I'll ask, do you actually know that it is a fiscal disaster or is this just your impression? Do you know that it costs that much more than any of the other sports not named basketball, football or men's hockey? Have you seen a breakdown on costs and revenues by sport?

The women's hockey team may take in less than half of the ticket revenue and none of the concession sales DIRECTLY. But the athletic department gets all profits from REA. So if the women's hockey team is helping pay the bills at REA through ticket sales revenue and concession sales, then it may be helping the athletic department indirectly. That number would probably be hard to quantify. My entire point is that just making a statement, like saying that women's hockey is a fiscal disaster, is easy to say. But I would prefer to get some facts and figures to prove it one way or the other rather than just accept the broad, sweeping generalization.

I answered this question the last time you asked it. Yes, I believe it to be true.

You don't have to take me at my word, that's fine.

I can't provide you with the balance sheet right now, but I will work on it.

[Shawn-O]

And on top of that UND pays their womens hockey coach more than their FB coach.

That is flat out embarrassing.

[Rick]

I answered this question the last time you asked it. Yes, I believe it to be true.

You don't have to take me at my word, that's fine.

I can't provide you with the balance sheet right now, but I will work on it.

I'm not sure what the definition of a "money pit" is but I'm wondering if quite a few sports couldn't be classified as money pits. Is every sport, other than men's hockey, a money pit? I believe football is a money pit for many universities. Do we have a balance sheet for UND football? Is it a money pit?

I don't know if women's hockey is a money pit and I don't know if football is a money pit but I wouldn't throw that out as a fact unless I was going to provide some concrete numbers.

[JohnboyND7]

That is flat out embarrassing.

no excuse to pay a D-I women's hockey coach more than a D-I football coach.