ND Supreme Court Rules against the NDSBoHE

[darell1976]

I don't think that would be admitting that our teams cannot compete with UND when the playing field is level and equal. I think it is admitting that we don't really care for UND and seeing UND's athletic programs fall down hard would be comical, wonderful, and benefit NDSU's all at the same time.

If you had an opportunity to vote on something that would hurt NDSU's athletic program in a variety of ways, you'd probably do it. And also take into consideration that NDSU fans are the reason that you have this opportunity to take them down hard, it'd make it even more funny and sweet for you.

Rather than being mad that some NDSU people are going to vote yes, and ride on them for doing so, you should be going after the "Sioux or Death" crowd who is the reason I, along with the rest of the state of North Dakota will have an opportunity to vote. It would be one thing if NDSU fans started the petition, or made a savethefightingsioux.com so we could stomp out a competitor in the region, but that is simply not the case. Look at the ridiculous fans you have who started the nonsense of fighting to get this on the ballet before you blame the people who get an opportunity to vote on it.

NDSU has been taking it on the chin with funding for some time. I think we'll survive...

You sure about that? It would be more fun to look at the scoreboard and laugh at the Bison players walking off the field/court with their heads down low after a UND ass-kicking. The vote should be a Grand Forks only vote or better yet only a UND vote no Fargo, no Bismarck...no NDSU fans.

[darell1976]

You're not very smart are you homer? I have never argued for keeping the name and in fact have been against the NCAA from the start. But I'm also not ready to obsolve UND of all blame like some of you posters like to do. It never should have gotten to point were "Carlson" could interfere and it should have been handled years ago. Wonder who dragged this thing out? UND fans! This whole thing has nothing to do with NDSU. It's self-infected for the most part. That's been my whole point since day one.

Then when the bill was first voted on and accepted by the legislature how come the yes votes came from Fargo and the no votes came from Grand Forks??

[ScottM]

Just stop with this nonsense about MS and SC, you are just making a fool out of yourself. The State of ND and the NCAA have a settlement and nowhere in that settlement is the NCAA given the authority to punish other ND schools if UND is not compliance with it. You are comparing apples to oranges.

If they punished other ND schools because UND is not in compliance with their policies and the settlement, the NCAA would be sued and the NCAA would lose.

But if the state of ND passes a law adopting UND's logo as the state flag you might have a point.

Why are you so concerned if you think the 2005 settlement somehow prevents the NC$$ from broadening its attack on NA imagery? This is, after all, an organization that changed its own rules after the Board sued it so it would stand up to further attacks. It basically fears no government, and it buys influence in congress which has probably allowed its monopoly of college sports to tighten.

And suing the NC$$ for broadening sanctions to cover other member schools in North Dakota? On what legal basis? Who's going to sue? The Board? 'SU? If 'su or another school didn't like it, they could go independent or join the NAIA. Nobody's forcing them to be a member of the NC$$, which is what we've heard from those in North Dakota who seek to maintain the Sioux moniker.

[UNDBIZ]

You sure about that? It would be more fun to look at the scoreboard and laugh at the Bison players walking off the field/court with their heads down low after a UND ass-kicking. The vote should be a Grand Forks only vote or better yet only a UND vote no Fargo, no Bismarck...no NDSU fans.

Perhaps the vote should be restricted to only include UND alumni

[darell1976]

Perhaps the vote should be restricted to only include UND alumni

I hope Kelley hits every newspaper and tv station in ND and educates people on the damage by voting yes on this measure.

[UNDBIZ]

I hope Kelley hits every newspaper and tv station in ND and educates people on the damage by voting yes on this measure.

Nobody trusts him. It has to be the coaches (including Hakstol) and the players.

[FargoBison]

Why are you so concerned if you think the 2005 settlement somehow prevents the NC$$ from broadening its attack on NA imagery? This is, after all, an organization that changed its own rules after the Board sued it so it would stand up to further attacks. It basically fears no government, and it buys influence in congress which has probably allowed its monopoly of college sports to tighten.

And suing the NC$$ for broadening sanctions to cover other member schools in North Dakota? On what legal basis? Who's going to sue? The Board? 'SU? If 'su or another school didn't like it, they could go independent or join the NAIA. Nobody's forcing them to be a member of the NC$$, which is what we've heard from those in North Dakota who seek to maintain the Sioux moniker.

I'm not concerned about NDSU being punished at all because NDSU is in full compliance with the NCAA's nickname policies. The NCAA is only interested in punishing schools that aren't in compliance with its policies. The only thing that has been happening with this legislation and statewide votes is UND cementing its non-compliance.

[darell1976]

I'm not concerned about NDSU being punished at all because NDSU is in full compliance with the NCAA's nickname policies. The NCAA is only interested in punishing schools that aren't in compliance with its policies.

But NDSU students and alumn are making UND break those policies by voting yes.

[FargoBison]

But NDSU students and alumn are making UND break those policies by voting yes.

I wouldn't worry about NDSU supporters, this vote will pass or fail based on what UND supporters do.

[ScottM]

I wouldn't worry about NDSU supporters, this vote will pass or fail based on what UND supporters do.

There's major distinction between "UND supporters" and everybody else who fall into various camps of moniker supporters, hockey-only fans, anti-higher education grubs, delusional tinfoil hat-types who think the NC$$ really cares about Indians and the "screw UND" crowd from 'SU. Quite frankly, I think the UND supporters are hosed, and I have no problems with spreading UND's sanctions across the state since it seems appropriate.

[The Sicatoka]

The state of ND and the NCAA have a settlement, nowhere in that settlement is there anything about other ND schools being punished because UND isn't in compliance. The only way the NCAA could punish other ND schools if if they are violating their Native American nickname policies.

The NCAA Executive Committee can adopt a new, expanded policy right now. The full membership voted them the power. They have the power. They have used it. They will use it again at some point.

The NCAA Executive Committee could create an expanded policy like --> "If it's state law, we don't play NCAA tournament games in that state."

Would they do it? Who knows. Maybe start asking in MS and SC.

[homer]

But all I can say is - wow. I don't think you can comprehend the fury (or as Sam would say, "wrath") of NDSU alumni if they found out that the NCAA was barring any school in ND from hosting a NCAA playoff event as a result of a state-wide vote. There would be countless people litereally screaming with spit flying out of their mouths. It would be epic.

It will probably be about the same feeling as UND losing the opportunity to host a playoff event as a result of a state-wide vote.

[puck]

The NCAA Executive Committee can adopt a new, expanded policy right now. The full membership voted them the power. They have the power. They have used it. They will use it again at some point.

The NCAA Executive Committee could create an expanded policy like --> "If it's state law, we don't play NCAA tournament games in that state."

Would they do it? Who knows. Maybe start asking in MS and SC.

Maybe a little birdie should encourage the NCAA Executive Committe to announce statewide sanctions well before the June vote. They could rationalize this due to UND's attempts to comply with the settlement and the state legislature and initiative/referrendum process elevating it to a state issue. This would almost guarantee a no vote in June, thus bringing closure to the whole drama. A November constitutional ammendment vote won't gain support either if all ND schools are under sanction.

[JohnboyND7]

And you think that the legislature gaining control of the University system will make this any better? Remember, your words, not mine....no whining.

Oh I'll remember there my words. I won't whine. And if I do, feel free to save this post of mine. That'll get me to knock it off. I don't THINK they'd do anything to insane but you never know right? Might have to eat my words at some point. All I know is I contacted Grant Shaft during the fall via email to and brought up some things I saw in the University System Budget that I was confused about. He asked for times when he could contact me. I told him anytime would work. He never contacted me. That was in September. I have given up on them.

[ScottM]

Maybe a little birdie should encourage the NCAA Executive Committe to announce statewide sanctions well before the June vote. They could rationalize this due to UND's attempts to comply with the settlement and the state legislature and initiative/referrendum process elevating it to a state issue. This would almost guarantee a no vote in June, thus bringing closure to the whole drama. A November constitutional ammendment vote won't gain support either if all ND schools are under sanction.

You'd think certain UND faculty and staff members would see the necessity of a statewide sanction since the state is not only allowing, but forcing, UND to keep the Sioux moniker around. Perhaps it would also allow the NC$$ to not be as hypocritical as usual too. I don't really see a downside.

[WYOBISONMAN]

Perhaps the vote should be restricted to only include UND alumni

Then that would knock Darell and Dave's ass out of it.

The bottom line is if one isolates the nickname issue it is purely a UND problem and a fight between UND fans. NDSU has not a damn thing to do with it. But.......the reality is this situation has been used by the Carlson crew in the Legislature to make a power grab. So, we all have a hell of a stake in this fight......and the fight is not going in a direction that is going to help Higher Ed. These petty damn arguments over whose football team is better will not mean !@#$ if the Legislature starts to micro-manage our schools.

And as could be expected, some of the biggest loudmouths on the board are guys that never even graduated from a SBOHE school.......I give you DaveK and Darell1976......they just don't get what is at stake......because the have no stake in either institution other that going to a few athletic events. Christ!

[Hayduke]

Nobody trusts him. It has to be the coaches (including Hakstol) and the players.

Maybe a nice coalition of former players. I'm not sure if current players, or even coaches could get involved in this political issue. I wish they could though...

[The Sicatoka]

Maybe a nice coalition of former players. I'm not sure if current players, or even coaches could get involved in this political issue. I wish they could though...

Former Governor Schafer can.

[UNDBIZ]

Then that would knock Darell and Dave's ass out of it.

The bottom line is if one isolates the nickname issue it is purely a UND problem and a fight between UND fans. NDSU has not a damn thing to do with it. But.......the reality is this situation has been used by the Carlson crew in the Legislature to make a power grab. So, we all have a hell of a stake in this fight......and the fight is not going in a direction that is going to help Higher Ed. These petty damn arguments over whose football team is better will not mean !@#$ if the Legislature starts to micro-manage our schools.

And as could be expected, some of the biggest loudmouths on the board are guys that never even graduated from a SBOHE school.......I give you DaveK and Darell1976......they just don't get what is at stake......because the have no stake in either institution other that going to a few athletic events. Christ!

Darell has been a supporter of UND rather than the nickname as far as I can remember. But if not allowing him to vote (due to not being an alum) means other non-alumni couldn't vote, it would be well worth it (sorry Darell). There are a lot more people who never attended a class at UND who are going to vote to keep the name than those non-alums who are educated enough regarding the situation to know to vote for the retirement of the name. Unfortunately, it's all a moot point because the vote would never be restricted in such a way.

[UNDBIZ]

Maybe a nice coalition of former players. I'm not sure if current players, or even coaches could get involved in this political issue. I wish they could though...

I don't think they can advocate for or against the law. However, spreading some facts (without mentioning the law) would appear reasonable

[ScottM]

The bottom line is if one isolates the nickname issue it is purely a UND problem and a fight between UND fans. NDSU has not a damn thing to do with it. But.......the reality is this situation has been used by the Carlson crew in the Legislature to make a power grab. So, we all have a hell of a stake in this fight......and the fight is not going in a direction that is going to help Higher Ed. These petty damn arguments over whose football team is better will not mean !@#$ if the Legislature starts to micro-manage our schools.

Yep, There was a certain wisdom for keeping much of the higher education system out of the legislative process. Maybe Clueless Al will start messing with curriculum next. PolSci 101 "Al Carlson: North Dakota's Self-Appointed Savior and Resident Tool" ...

[MplsBison]

The NCAA Executive Committee can adopt a new, expanded policy right now. The full membership voted them the power. They have the power. They have used it. They will use it again at some point.

The NCAA Executive Committee could create an expanded policy like --> "If it's state law, we don't play NCAA tournament games in that state."

Would they do it? Who knows. Maybe start asking in MS and SC.

I put the idea out on AGS - at least one Montana fan seemed to think it was reasonable that the NCAA could ban post-season events in ND due to the state wide vote passing. He citied SC, as you have.

Maybe this isn't impossible...

[dagies]

I know you're just trying to stir things up and perhaps invoke some conversation.

But all I can say is - wow. I don't think you can comprehend the fury (or as Sam would say, "wrath") of NDSU alumni if they found out that the NCAA was barring any school in ND from hosting a NCAA playoff event as a result of a state-wide vote. There would be countless people litereally screaming with spit flying out of their mouths. It would be epic.

Sounds like what a lot of UND supporters will feel like doing considering the fate of the athletic programs are at the mercy of the "state wide vote".

[watchmaker49]

Perhaps the vote should be restricted to only include UND alumni

Second that and include current enrolled students. Same goes for when a new moniker is chosen.

[darell1976]

Then that would knock Darell and Dave's ass out of it.

The bottom line is if one isolates the nickname issue it is purely a UND problem and a fight between UND fans. NDSU has not a damn thing to do with it. But.......the reality is this situation has been used by the Carlson crew in the Legislature to make a power grab. So, we all have a hell of a stake in this fight......and the fight is not going in a direction that is going to help Higher Ed. These petty damn arguments over whose football team is better will not mean !@#$ if the Legislature starts to micro-manage our schools.

And as could be expected, some of the biggest loudmouths on the board are guys that never even graduated from a SBOHE school.......I give you DaveK and Darell1976......they just don't get what is at stake......because the have no stake in either institution other that going to a few athletic events. Christ!

I do know what is at stake that is why I am against keeping the name and logo. And if was restricted to just UND alumns I do have lots of classmates that are UND alumns that I would gladly share my 2 cents with and tell them to vote no on the measure.