June referral vote

[Goon]

That is only true if you believe that myth that is being spewed by anti-nickname people.

DaveK I think you have gone off of the deep end and many people that support the name recognized that their is only "one" chance to keep the name and that is by the SL Lawsuit... The NCAA doesn't care about the petition drive or what some blogger at SAB says. They don't what any of us think, they only care that they have a signed legal settlement and that is the only thing that matters.

[82SiouxGuy]

Sioux athletes are more honored than any other school across the country to throw on the uniform who they represent.

I would bet that athletes at almost every school in the country would disagree with that statement. The Fighting Sioux name and logo isn't magic. It's a great logo, but it isn't bigger than the athletes and the school. Dale Lennon, Dave Hakstol, Mac Schneider and many other former UND athletes have said it is time to let the nickname go. Don't you think that they're closer to the situation, and to how the athletes in the program feel, than you are?

[ScottM]

It is a myth that keeping the name will destroy UND athletics. So we won't be eligible to host playoff games for awhile... that situation will be corrected after Spirit Lake wins their lawsuit. So Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin won't schedule games against us... who needs Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin?

What's this "we"? You've made it quite clear you're willing to sacrifice UND and its student-athletes when you have no ties to the school whatsoever. All so you can wear a jersey.

And if you're counting on SL to win their litigation, keep counting.

[82SiouxGuy]

It is a myth that keeping the name will destroy UND athletics. So we won't be eligible to host playoff games for awhile... that situation will be corrected after Spirit Lake wins their lawsuit. So Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin won't schedule games against us... who needs Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin?

What guarantee is there that Spirit Lake wins their lawsuit? How long is it going to take? The short answers are that Spirit Lake is a long shot to win, and the case could go on for years. Only a fool would bet the future of the athletic program on those bad odds. Of course, since you don't care about the program it doesn't matter to you how much damage is done in the process.

[82SiouxGuy]

I can wear the jersey one way or the other. This isn't so I can wear the jersey, this is so that my favorite team can continue to exist.

Your favorite "team" only exists in your head.

[82SiouxGuy]

I do care about the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux program. It's just the University of North Dakota Cavalry/Nokotas/Aviators/any other stupid name that I don't care about.

Exactly! You don't care about the University of North Dakota. You only care about a name and a logo. That is just sad.

[jodcon]

I can wear the jersey one way or the other. This isn't so I can wear the jersey, this is so that my favorite team can continue to exist.

If that's the case why don't you go to a bar in Fargo, get a dozen drunks who say they can skate, put Sioux jerseys on them, line up a game for them, and you can cheer for your "favorite team" a.k.a. "Team Sioux Jersey" without having it associated with UND.

Problem solved.

[82SiouxGuy]

And you don't care what the team is called. They could have a different nickname every other season and you wouldn't have a problem with that. That is just sad.

As long as they are representing the University of North Dakota, the nickname is secondary. It's the institution that counts rather than the nickname. Of course you don't understand that, you didn't graduate from the school.

[Ole in MSP]

It is a myth that keeping the name will destroy UND athletics. So we won't be eligible to host playoff games for awhile... that situation will be corrected after Spirit Lake wins their lawsuit. So Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin won't schedule games against us... who needs Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin?

Dave, Dave, you are so naive. I am 65 years old and I want to see UND play Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin and other schools of that stature and play for NCAA championships in other than hockey. I want that to happen asap because who knows how long I will be here to see it. I grew up in GF and walked as a kid at 20 below zero to the unheated "old winter sports" building prior to even a conception of the "old" Englestad arena. We played cards on cement block on the ground waiting for General Ad. tickets as Jr HS kids. I walked to UND BB games thru snowstorms, FB games, BaseB games from my house near campus. I grew up on campus and UND sports was my favorite pastime for years. I am a Sioux fan thru and thru, BUT it is time to let the name go!!!! Join the 21st century. No one save a few narrow minded folks like yourself consider it worth the cost! Wake up before you are watching UND play NAIA schedules in all sports and the prestige of the university gone forever!!!

[82SiouxGuy]

No, they exist both on the ice and on the gridiron.

The teams that actually play on the ice and on the gridiron are the University of North Dakota. The nickname is secondary. But the teams will still exist even if the nickname changes.

[82SiouxGuy]

Dave, Dave, you are so naive. I am 65 years old and I want to see UND play Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin and other schools of that stature and play for NCAA championships in other than hockey. I want that to happen asap because who knows how long I will be here to see it. I grew up in GF and walked as a kid at 20 below zero to the unheated "old winter sports" building prior to even a conception of the "old" Englestad arena. I walked to UND BB games, FB games, BB games from my house near campus. I grew up on campus and it was my favorite pastime for years. I am a Sioux fan thru and thru, BUT it is time to let the name go!!!! Join the 21st century. No one save a few narrow minded folks like yourself consider it worth the cost! Wake up before you are watching UND play NAIA schedules in all sports and the prestige of the university gone forever!!!

I agree with everything you said except one. The NAIA doesn't have hockey, so if UND would ever have to go to the NAIA the hockey program would probably have to go to the club level.

[82SiouxGuy]

The nickname is not secondary. You are dead wrong on that point, end of conversation.

I'm only wrong in your mind. The conversation goes on here.

[82SiouxGuy]

I've told you this before, but you probably weren't paying attention so let me say it again...

NOBODY CARES IF YOU GRADUATED FROM THE SCHOOL OR NOT!!!

People that have graduated from the school have a much different connection to the school than those that haven't. You just can't grasp that.

[bincitysioux]

The nickname is not secondary. You are dead wrong on that point, end of conversation.

You are wrong. An abstract moniker lends nothing to the success of any of the programs. That comes from the players, coaches, and institutional support.

Had the University never changed its name in 1930, the North Dakota Flickertails would still today have 7 Ice Hockey championships, 3 women's basketball championships, a football championship, and a $110 Million dollar hockey rink....................

[82SiouxGuy]

You are wrong. An abstract moniker lends nothing to the success of any of the programs. That comes from the players, coaches, and institutional support.

Had the University never changed its name in 1930, the North Dakota Flickertails would still today have 7 Ice Hockey championships, 3 women's basketball championships, a football championship, and a $110 Million dollar hockey rink....................

Well said, sir!

[choyt3]

People that have graduated from the school have a much different connection to the school than those that haven't. You just can't grasp that.

I realize you are fighting with DaveK about this, but that is a very subjective comment. There are a great deal of people that didn't graduate from UND that love the school and support it. Many attended UND and didn't graduate for any number of reasons. You don't know their situation(s), so why judge them?

[82SiouxGuy]

I realize you are fighting with DaveK about this, but that is a very subjective comment. There are a great deal of people that didn't graduate from UND that love the school and support it. Many attended UND and didn't graduate for any number of reasons. You don't know their situation(s), so why judge them?

I didn't say that people who didn't go to school at UND couldn't love or support the school. But I firmly believe that people who attend a school, and those who graduate from that school, have a different connection to the school than those who did not have that daily connection. The connection is probably very similar for those that attend and those that graduate. I was referring to those who have not attended the school versus those who had. Since I am a graduate and Dave didn't attend, that was my frame of reference for the comments. I wasn't even thinking about current students or those that attended without graduating. I'm sorry if I slighted you or anyone that attended UND and did not graduate. That certainly wasn't my intention. I will amend my comment to say, "People that have attended the school have a much different connection to the school than those that haven't."

[Gma loves hockey]

I never had the chance to go to college so naturally I never graduated from UND. However, I have lived in Grand Forks for over 40 years and have worked with students, faculty, and support staff. I have been an avid UND sports fan for years. UND is a large part of this community and is interwoven with the essence of Grand Forks. Please do not tell me that I cannot have any feelings or loyalty for UND. I like to think I bleed green. That said, I feel the people close to the situation can evaluate it a lot better than I and I definitely bow to the knowledge and evaluation of Fighting Sioux people like Dale Lennon, Tim O'Keefe, Dave Hakstol and the legion of former students and athletes that are saying the time has come to retire the Sioux name. Thank you for letting me vent.

[UNDColorado]

The nickname is not secondary. You are dead wrong on that point, end of conversation.

Do you read what you write? There is something seriously wrong with you.

[bincitysioux]

I've told you this before, but you probably weren't paying attention so let me say it again... NOBODY CARES IF YOU GRADUATED FROM THE SCHOOL OR NOT!!!

Basically, you are exactly right DaveK. It doesn't matter if you graduated or attended the Univeristy. What really matters is do you care if the University is successful in every avenue including academics, research, and athletics?

The question is, are you a "stakeholder"? My opinion is that a "stakeholder" has a vested interest in the University as a whole. I consider myself a "stakeholder" because I attendended and graduated from UND, I currently throw alot of cash toward UND athletics AND academics, and in return for my contributions I expect to see UND to be in a position to be a leader in both the athletic and academic areas that I contribute to. There are a plethora of people and businesses that contribute to UND that did not attend the University, and I suspect that they expect the same.

You don't have to be a graduate to be stakeholder. But just because you are infatuated with a cartoonish charicature is not a valid reason to throw such storied programs like North Dakota hockey, football, and basketball under the bus like you are seemingly so willing to do.

Do you really think Tony Hrkac would have scored fewer goals if he didn't have Chicago's logo on his crest? Do you really think that Jim Kleinsasser would not have out-run the NDSU secondary if we were not known as the Sioux? Do you really think that North Dakota would not have routed Michigan St. in the 1959 Ice Hockey title game if we were not known as the Sioux?

I became a fan of the New England Patriots in the 1980's as a kid because I liked their uniforms and a couple of their players. I follow them to this day. I suspect that is about as far as your loyalties go toward the University of North Dakota. You are not a "stakeholder" in this issue and I feel that if you are a ND resident, it is unfortunate that someone like you could potentially have an impact on this if it comes to a vote.

[82SiouxGuy]

I never had the chance to go to college so naturally I never graduated from UND. However, I have lived in Grand Forks for over 40 years and have worked with students, faculty, and support staff. I have been an avid UND sports fan for years. UND is a large part of this community and is interwoven with the essence of Grand Forks. Please do not tell me that I cannot have any feelings or loyalty for UND. I like to think I bleed green. That said, I feel the people close to the situation can evaluate it a lot better than I and I definitely bow to the knowledge and evaluation of Fighting Sioux people like Dale Lennon, Tim O'Keefe, Dave Hakstol and the legion of former students and athletes that are saying the time has come to retire the Sioux name. Thank you for letting me vent.

You have a perfect right to have feelings for UND and be loyal to UND. And I'm glad that you do. I know a lot of people that have similar feelings. I just believe that people who have attended the school have had different experiences than those who haven't. Therefore they have a different connection.

[82SiouxGuy]

A. As a Sioux football season ticket holder I can call myself a "stakeholder".

B. There is nothing "cartoonish" about the logo. Quite frankly, for you to call it that is rather insulting.

For you to say that it would be a totally different team if the nickname goes is very insulting to the people on the team. For you to call people racist because they want to change a logo and nickname rather than watch their school suffer sanctions is absolutely insulting.

[UNDBIZ]

A. As a Sioux football season ticket holder I can call myself a "stakeholder".

B. There is nothing "cartoonish" about the logo. Quite frankly, for you to call it that is rather insulting.

True or False: Dave K cares about the University of North Dakota.

True or False: The logo is a photograph.

We all know the answer to both those questions is false. The logo may be a work of art, but so were old Disney movies.

[Fetch]

Yeah if there is something we in North Dakota won't ever accept is taking away our guns & telling us were hostile & abusive when we know for a fact we are not

[The Sicatoka]

Fetch, in the settlement agreement, the NCAA says UND is not "hostile and abusive". That's something Kupchella demanded.

However, the NCAA still doesn't want certain imagery at their (NCAA) tournaments.