Bison06 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 What a mess this has all become, how can the nickname supporters not see that this is ultimately going to be a death sentence for the University's athletic programs? Not being able to schedule your biggest rival (UM) in your most popular sport would crush support for that program. UND hockey fans major interest from my perspective has always been that they see the premier hockey programs in the nation at Engelstad each week. Without that there aren't many "sexy" names on the schedule to get excited about. Awful. I am sincerely upset that UND has to deal with this BS. Quote
JohnboyND7 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Some folks just don't understand "hot" until they put their hand on the (NCAA sanctions) burner. And those same folks will be the first ones to complain that a burned hand doesn't work like it did before. What they won't understand is why they can't take their hand off the (ncaa sanctions) burner when 5 minutes earlier, they dipped their hand into a bucket of (Sioux Nickname) super glue. Quote
Benny Baker Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 What a mess this has all become, how can the nickname supporters not see that this is ultimately going to be a death sentence for the University's athletic programs? Not being able to schedule your biggest rival (UM) in your most popular sport would crush support for that program. UND hockey fans major interest from my perspective has always been that they see the premier hockey programs in the nation at Engelstad each week. Without that there aren't many "sexy" names on the schedule to get excited about. Awful. I am sincerely upset that UND has to deal with this BS. There is absolutely no way on Earth that UND will have home series against Minnesota and Wisconsin at the Ralph every year. And the reason is because of the Big Ten Hockey Conference. The hockey issue has waaay more to do with realignment than with the nickname. Quote
MafiaMan Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 UND hockey fans major interest from my perspective has always been that they see the premier hockey programs in the nation at Engelstad each week. Without that there aren't many "sexy" names on the schedule to get excited about. I guess if you consider Michigan Tech, Nebraska-Omaha, St Cloud State, Bemidji, and Mankato "premier", then you're correct. Every week? I mean no disrespect to those schools, but when I hear "premier" and "college hockey," the first visions that come into my head aren't those. I can't believe people think UND/UM home and away EVERY year is an option when they're not in the same conference. That's simply not going to happen regardless of the nickname. Quote
yababy8 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 To be clear, I think those are two different groups of petition supporters... 1) those who deeply understand the risks but still favor keeping the name at all costs (e.g. even if it means leaving the NCAA); 2) those who ignorantly think that making it a "law" will somehow negate the potential downside. I used to think most of the petition supporters were in group #2, but now I wouldn't be at all shocked to find out a majority of North Dakotans are in group #1. If it indeed proves to be the case that people know exactly what they're voting for and a majority make that choice, we'll have earned/deserve whatever outcome results from it. I think this is a poorly thoughtout summation of the thinking in the minds of petitiion supporters. Quote
Siouxperfan7 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Keep the name = eventually getting kicked out of the Big Sky. It's that simple folks!! 2 Quote
bincitysioux Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 I can't believe people think UND/UM home and away EVERY year is an option when they're not in the same conference. That's simply not going to happen regardless of the nickname. I would just like to see Minnesota and Wisconsin on the schedule at some point. Once a year, every other year, whether it is in Grand Forks, Minneapolis, or Madison I don't care. With the sanctions in place it'll only happen once in a blue moon in the regionals or frozen four, possibly thousands of miles away.................. Quote
Bison06 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 I guess if you consider Michigan Tech, Nebraska-Omaha, St Cloud State, Bemidji, and Mankato "premier", then you're correct. Every week? I mean no disrespect to those schools, but when I hear "premier" and "college hockey," the first visions that come into my head aren't those. I can't believe people think UND/UM home and away EVERY year is an option when they're not in the same conference. That's simply not going to happen regardless of the nickname. I wasn't aware that the conference affiliation was more of an issue with the UND/UM situation than the nickname. I spoke without fully understanding the situation. When I speak to UND hockey fans, being able to see Wisconsin and Minnesota at home is always a talking point as to why they have such an interest in watching. I'll leave the finer points of the discussion to those of you who understand the situation better, but from Fullerton's comments this week, I believe UND is in big trouble at this point. Quote
iramurphy Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 REALLY? Walter Dickey, chairman of the University of Wisconsin Athletic Board, says the Badgers would play the Sioux because of their previous games in hockey. “We have an exception in our policy for what we call a traditional opponent, and you’re a traditional opponent,” Dickey says of the Sioux. “The policy is under review. We’re considering stuff. One of the things we’re looking at is what the NCAA is doing.” Minnesota would quickly do the same. You have no basis for the claim about Minnesota. I sat next to Maturi at lunch and he said they will not play us because it is their school policy. Faison has spoken to the Wisconsin staff since Dickey's statement and therefore I believe you are wrong there too. If UND didn't have any other sports other than hockey this would hurt us. The name is not as important as the success of our teams. For those who think it is a Native American priority there are so many other ways to positively affect change on the reservations. The name could have been and should have been a bridge to many opportunities and was not used to the full extent it could have been but you don't need the name to make a difference. Every thing people want to do for Native Americans can be done without this name. It does nothing for UND athletics and in fact it is now causing harm and unless the NCAA pulls the sanctions, the harm will be massive. 1 Quote
minnysioux Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Here is the Governor's e-mail address. The ONLY way this can end well is for Standing Rock to vote. E-mail the Gov. and tell him to get his ass to Standing Rock to speak with the elders. If they say no, the nickname has to go. http://governor.nd.gov/contact-us Quote
bincitysioux Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 I wasn't aware that the conference affiliation was more of an issue with the UND/UM situation than the nickname. I spoke without fully understanding the situation. When I speak to UND hockey fans, being able to see Wisconsin and Minnesota at home is always a talking point as to why they have such an interest in watching. I'll leave the finer points of the discussion to those of you who understand the situation better, but from Fullerton's comments this week, I believe UND is in big trouble at this point. The conference affiliation issue with the NCHC, Big Ten, and WCHA means fewer games for UND with Minnesota and Wisconsin. The nickname issue means NO games with Minnesota and Wisconsin. 2 Quote
Matt Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 The conference affiliation issue with the NCHC, Big Ten, and WCHA means fewer games for UND with Minnesota and Wisconsin. The nickname issue means NO games with Minnesota and Wisconsin. That's a good observation. Quote
82SiouxGuy Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Here is the Governor's e-mail address. The ONLY way this can end well is for Standing Rock to vote. E-mail the Gov. and tell him to get his ass to Standing Rock to speak with the elders. If they say no, the nickname has to go. http://governor.nd.gov/contact-us The NCAA never cared whether Standing Rock voted or not. The settlement said it could be decided any way allowable in the Tribal Constitution. Then they wanted the decision sent to them in writing. The Standing Rock Tribal Constitution does not allow a vote on issues like this. The majority of states do not have a referendum and initiative system available to them. So getting Standing Rock to vote on the issue is meaningless to the NCAA. In addition, the NCAA told the North Dakota delegation last summer that the time period available for the tribes to give consent was done. Even if Standing Rock gives approval today, the NCAA would continue to have UND on sanctions because they didn't live up to the terms of the settlement. As far as the NCAA is concerned, the issue is done. They will not let UND use the nickname. Quote
bincitysioux Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 The majority of states do not have a referendum and initiative system available to them. Well, I guess we're just "lucky" then........................... Quote
ScottM Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 The NCAA never cared whether Standing Rock voted or not. The settlement said it could be decided any way allowable in the Tribal Constitution. Then they wanted the decision sent to them in writing. The Standing Rock Tribal Constitution does not allow a vote on issues like this. The majority of states do not have a referendum and initiative system available to them. So getting Standing Rock to vote on the issue is meaningless to the NCAA. In addition, the NCAA told the North Dakota delegation last summer that the time period available for the tribes to give consent was done. Even if Standing Rock gives approval today, the NCAA would continue to have UND on sanctions because they didn't live up to the terms of the settlement. As far as the NCAA is concerned, the issue is done. They will not let UND use the nickname. SR and SL had until 2010 to give their consent based on the terms of the settlement. Neither did so. Accordingly, UND is now under sanctions for maintaining the Sioux moniker according to the terms of said settlement. Not sure why people cannot (or will not) grasp that simple fact. 1 Quote
Siouxperfan7 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 I just hope that they find the law unconstitutional. That way there is no chance that the people of UND can vote, and if in favor of it, destroy UND athletics as we know it. 4 Quote
minnysioux Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Honest question: Did North Dakota ever send anyone to Standing Rock that had any real negotiating power? Nothing against the ND State Board of Education but we should've had Dorgan, Hoeven, or Conrad meeting with them. We had three years to get an agreement. Did we even try until it was to late? Just thinking outside the box: Sioux County (Fort Yates, ND) is the 7th poorest county in the US. How hard would it have been for UND to offer a $500 scholarship to kids that held a "C" average? Poverty rate: 41.3% Poverty rate of children under 18: 51.8% http://money.msn.com/family-money/the-poorest-counties-in-america Quote
MafiaMan Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 The conference affiliation issue with the NCHC, Big Ten, and WCHA means fewer games for UND with Minnesota and Wisconsin. The nickname issue means NO games with Minnesota and Wisconsin. And maybe games with Michigan, Michigan State, Boston University, Boston College, Maine, New Hampshire, and Notre Dame instead. Quote
ScottM Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Honest question: Did North Dakota ever send anyone to Standing Rock that had any real negotiating power? Nothing against the ND State Board of Education but we should've had Dorgan, Hoeven, or Conrad meeting with them. We had three years to get an agreement. Did we even try until it was to late? Those three never raised their voices against the NC$$ when it really mattered, so I doubt they would have lifted a finger when dealing with SR or SL. Empty suits on this issue. Quote
ScottM Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 And maybe games with Michigan, Michigan State, Boston University, Boston College, Maine, New Hampshire, and Notre Dame instead. Or maybe not ... especially the B1G schools. Quote
mikejm Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 I just hope that they find the law unconstitutional. That way there is no chance that the people of UND can vote, and if in favor of it, destroy UND athletics as we know it. You are forgetting about the "second" petition; if the Fighting Sioux name makes it into the state constitution, we'll be right back in this mess again. Quote
Vegas_Sioux Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 This should have ended in 2005 when hasert who was speaker of the house threatened an anti trust investigation on the NCAA to get Illinois off the list all pomerory had to do was agree with him. Quote
ScottM Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 You are forgetting about the "second" petition; if the Fighting Sioux name makes it into the state constitution, we'll be right back in this mess again. Which may create the proverbial "constitutional crisis" since the powers of the Board may butt up against the a new provision of the state constitution. But that latter provision is so wishy-washy, it leaves more room for "interpretation" than Clueless Al's legislation. Quote
GoalieMask Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 The hockey only crowd will not believe Faison but they would believe Hakstol in a second. Are the coaching staying mum on this issue because "they have games to think about"? Or did Hakstol/Roebuck get their hand slapped for being outspoken (pro name) in year's past? If memory serves, that occurred during the hockey offseason. Hak's silence concerns me a little bit. Anyone else or am I just overthinking this? Quote
The Sicatoka Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Hak is as jammed up as anyone else right now. Say "keep it" and he is effectively screwing every other of his coaching peers and athletic program at UND, including womens hockey, and ultimately his own when his calls to Minneapolis and Madison to schedule games go unanswered. Say "lose it" and the Chewey/Fetch/DaveK/ksixpack mindset will call for his head for not being for the name at all costs. Quote
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