What happens if the first petition gains enough signatures?

[dmksioux]

Every president would have to vote us out, that is a fact stated by Fullerton yesterday. Why would they vote us out if we are making the conference money and contributing to their schools bottom line? They voted us in when we were the Fighting SIoux didn't they? Your argument doesn't make much sense.

UND was the Sioux when they invited us, but we also had the agreement in place with the NCAA that we were dropping the name if we didn't have tribal approval. Guess what, to date we still don't have tribal approval and this law isn't going to get the approval the NCAA is looking for. All we can do is support the legal case the SL tribe is trying to do. If that's successful, then, perhaps we can save the name.

[ksixpack]

You do understand there will be a lot of cost associated to having UND in the conference? Also, when they voted us in as Fighting Sioux we had a travel partner that was within bus trip distance away. In case you haven't been following that travel partner isn't there anymore. They are willing to work with it but its a long way and a nice chunk of change from a lot of those locations to Grand Forks.

See my original post...revenue less expenses = profit...our revenues far exceed travel costs...take a look at the map of the Big Sky teams, this isn't the old NCC. Nobody is just down the road (Vermillian is even 350 miles away)...those states in the West are large!

[ScottM]

The only thing defending that post is its length!!!! I mean, is he that dimwitted to believe what he posted??!! SRSLY??!! Wow!!

He probably gets his "facts" from SAB ... not nearly as entertaining though.

[SooToo]

What? Get a clue! The Big Sky conference like all other conferences are a for profit organization. They pay Fullerton's salary. The more money BSC makes more money Fullerton makes. Fullerton could care less about the nickname and has said so publically. He just wants it resolved. Why? Because he sees UND as an asset to his company. If we are under NCAA sanctions we would stand to make less money for the conference (i.e. road football playoff games). To him less money is not good. He is protecting his asset and wants to be able to get as much money out of it as he can. As long as we make money for the conference (and we will with or without NCAA sanctions) we are good but more is better and that is why he wants this resolved. Always follow the money and you will see the answer!

Congratulations. An excellent summary of some of the delusional drivel perpetuated by the nickname only crowd. I guess the Big Sky doesn't need UND more than UND needs the Big Sky ... but almost.

I'm unclear how the BSC "makes more money" with a marginalized UND as a member when 90% of mid-major/FCS porgrams are money losers. Is it in the further subdivision of the league' support from the NCAA? Maybe it's in the additional travel expense for other members to come to ND. I agree UND has intrinsic value to the Big Sky due to its academic programs, but I'm not sure there's a lot of money to be made with that one. UND had value in stabilizing the conference, allowing for divisional play and expanding the leagues foot print, but much of that value vanished when USD bailed out the back door at the last instant. It's laughable to claim UND brings the Big Sky much exposure in the Twin Cities, especially since Lucia appears to be putting together a plan to keep UND off Minnesota's schedule for the foreseeable future. The regional television coverage? Apparently traded away to prop up the new hockey conference.

Hard to find the "profit" that would convince Big Sky presidents to put up with the negatives a sanctioned UND would bring to the conference. Hard to see why Fullerton would be blowing smoke on the consequences for UND of keeping the nickname.

[ksixpack]

Congratulations. An excellent summary of some of the delusional drivel perpetuated by the nickname only crowd. I guess the Big Sky doesn't need UND more than UND needs the Big Sky ... but almost.

I'm unclear how the BSC "makes more money" with a marginalized UND as a member when 90% of mid-major/FCS porgrams are money losers. Is it in the further subdivision of the league' support from the NCAA? Maybe it's in the additional travel expense for other members to come to ND. I agree UND has intrinsic value to the Big Sky due to its academic programs, but I'm not sure there's a lot of money to be made with that one. UND had value in stabilizing the conference, allowing for divisional play and expanding the leagues foot print, but much of that value vanished when USD bailed out the back door at the last instant. It's laughable to claim UND brings the Big Sky much exposure in the Twin Cities, especially since Lucia appears to be putting together a plan to keep UND off Minnesota's schedule for the foreseeable future. The regional television coverage? Apparently traded away to prop up the new hockey conference.

Hard to find the "profit" that would convince Big Sky presidents to put up with the negatives a sanctioned UND would bring to the conference. Hard to see why Fullerton would be blowing smoke on the consequences for UND of keeping the nickname.

We are in the 10% of the mid-majors that do not lose money. Funny, based on your logic they would have voted us out after South Dakota left, or maybe after the constitutional amendment to keed the name, or yesterday. Well they haven't have they? Fullerton is on record as saying they are taking a wait and see aproach and we are in the Big Sky as long as we are a viable member...I say we will be a viable member for a long time...you obviously say we won't. Time will tell my friend...

[SooToo]

We are in the 10% of the mid-majors that do not lose money. Funny, based on your logic they would have voted us out after South Dakota left, or maybe after the constitutional amendment to keed the name, or yesterday. Well they haven't have they? Fullerton is on record as saying they are taking a wait and see aproach and we are in the Big Sky as long as we are a viable member...I say we will be a viable member for a long time...you obviously say we won't. Time will tell my friend...

I'm aware UND makes money; I read the financials and I'm thrilled. But how does that benefit other members of the Big Sky financially? I'm unaware of a constitutional amendment to keep the nickname; maybe you're referring to the petition drive to get one on the ballot. The Big Sky hasn't made any moves because, so far, nothing has happened here. We'll see how long they wait if/when either of the ballot measures passes. Judging by Fullerton's comments, I'm guessing it won't be long. I trust you'll be around to assure us that everything is just fine.

[UNDBIZ]

We are in the 10% of the mid-majors that do not lose money. Funny, based on your logic they would have voted us out after South Dakota left, or maybe after the constitutional amendment to keed the name, or yesterday. Well they haven't have they? Fullerton is on record as saying they are taking a wait and see aproach and we are in the Big Sky as long as we are a viable member...I say we will be a viable member for a long time...you obviously say we won't. Time will tell my friend...

UND sports sponsored by the Big Sky will lose viability. Without recruits, teams will go bad. Why would a recruit pick a school knowing he/she could never have a playoff atmosphere game at home in front of their friends? Knowing that they'll never get to play against Minnesota, Wisconsin, or the other big regional schools?

When the Big Sky accepted UND, it was pretty clear UND was going to drop the name, but then Carlson got involved. UND was a perfect looking apple that the Big Sky plucked from the tree. The Big Sky is now hoping the apple isn't rotten inside and they don't have to throw us away.

[darell1976]

What they need to do is have a secret ballot and see where all the presidents stand. If the "unoffical" vote is unanimous then UND has a huge problem.

[Chewey]

Sioux Nickname article per CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/08/us/north-dakota-mascot/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

[ksixpack]

UND sports sponsored by the Big Sky will lose viability. Without recruits, teams will go bad. Why would a recruit pick a school knowing he/she could never have a playoff atmosphere game at home in front of their friends? Knowing that they'll never get to play against Minnesota, Wisconsin, or the other big regional schools?

When the Big Sky accepted UND, it was pretty clear UND was going to drop the name, but then Carlson got involved. UND was a perfect looking apple that the Big Sky plucked from the tree. The Big Sky is now hoping the apple isn't rotten inside and they don't have to throw us away.

Might be the dumbest comment I have read so far...they did just fine recruiting during the transition didn't they when they were guarenteed no playoffs for 5 years home or away! You realize there is no home playoffs in D1 for basketball and hockey right? There is not a UND recruit for football that would ever say that I am not coming because I can't play a home football playoff game in front of my friends...come on you have to be kidding me? Furthermore it was not clear that UND was dropping the name when the Big Sky accepted them, as a matter of fact the SIoux logo took up about half of the Big Sky home page when they welcomed them to the league on their web site.

[Matt]

It doesn't matter what level it is at, conference decisions come down to football (see Kansas basketball's lack of influence in Big 12 realignment). The BSC will not abide a program that wins the conference championship, but must go on the road for the playoffs, putting Fullerton in the position to answer questions to local and national media about why this is happening, each and every year.

If UND is the Fighting Sioux this time next year, unless the NC$$ changes it's position, my money is on the BSC acting to remove UND by their summer meeting. I haven't even begun to consider the effect of all that on football recruiting. How many times have we heard recruits talk about their excitement for the BSC?

[CAS4127]

Might be the dumbest comment I have read so far...they did just fine recruiting during the transition didn't they when they were guarenteed no playoffs for 5 years home or away! You realize there is no home playoffs in D1 for basketball and hockey right? There is not a UND recruit for football that would ever say that I am not coming because I can't play a home football playoff game in front of my friends...come on you have to be kidding me? Furthermore it was not clear that UND was dropping the name when the Big Sky accepted them, as a matter of fact the SIoux logo took up about half of the Big Sky home page when they welcomed them to the league on their web site.

Apparently you don't read your own-->just sayin'!!!

[UND1983]

Might be the dumbest comment I have read so far...they did just fine recruiting during the transition didn't they when they were guarenteed no playoffs for 5 years home or away! You realize there is no home playoffs in D1 for basketball and hockey right? There is not a UND recruit for football that would ever say that I am not coming because I can't play a home football playoff game in front of my friends...come on you have to be kidding me? Furthermore it was not clear that UND was dropping the name when the Big Sky accepted them, as a matter of fact the SIoux logo took up about half of the Big Sky home page when they welcomed them to the league on their web site.

You obviously haven't followed any other sports than hockey. UND recruiting in football and basketball was not nearly as good in the first three years of the transition as it was this past year or even the year before that.

[UNDBIZ]

Might be the dumbest comment I have read so far...they did just fine recruiting during the transition didn't they when they were guarenteed no playoffs for 5 years home or away! You realize there is no home playoffs in D1 for basketball and MEN'S hockey right? There is not a UND recruit for football that would ever say that I am not coming because I can't play a home football playoff game in front of my friends...come on you have to be kidding me? Furthermore it was not clear that UND was dropping the name when the Big Sky accepted them, as a matter of fact the SIoux logo took up about half of the Big Sky home page when they welcomed them to the league on their web site.

If you think the product UND put on the football field and basketball court from 2008-2010 was of high quality, then it's obvious you haven't been watching any games. The football team lost to SIOUX FALLS of the NAIA. That can never be allowed to happen again. Did you play football for UND? No? Then you have no idea what recruits consider in making a decision. The Big Sky used the Sioux logo because at the time of acceptance UND was the Fighting Sioux but UND officials had made it clear that they were going to follow the agreement entered into with the NC$$.

[ksixpack]

Apparently you don't read your own-->just sayin'!!!

Well pick it apart then. Enlighten the rest of us with your wisdom. Easy to sit there with your feet up casting stones. Very sad.

[Matt]

Might be the dumbest comment I have read so far...they did just fine recruiting during the transition didn't they when they were guarenteed no playoffs for 5 years home or away! You realize there is no home playoffs in D1 for basketball and hockey right? There is not a UND recruit for football that would ever say that I am not coming because I can't play a home football playoff game in front of my friends...come on you have to be kidding me? Furthermore it was not clear that UND was dropping the name when the Big Sky accepted them, as a matter of fact the SIoux logo took up about half of the Big Sky home page when they welcomed them to the league on their web site.

If you considered the recruiting "just fine" during the transition, you have a very different definition of "just fine" than I do. Not to mention, my vision for this program, and certainly Muss' vision, is a helluvalot higher level than "just fine".

[ksixpack]

If you think the product UND put on the football field and basketball court from 2008-2010 was of high quality, then it's obvious you haven't been watching any games. The football team lost to SIOUX FALLS of the NAIA. That can never be allowed to happen again. Did you play football for UND? No? Then you have no idea what recruits consider in making a decision. The Big Sky used the Sioux logo because at the time of acceptance UND was the Fighting Sioux but UND officials had made it clear that they were going to follow the agreement entered into with the NC$$.

The last football poll I saw had UND ranked in the top 25 which is better than 100 schools in FSC football. UND beat Montana and NDSU in mens basketball. The other sports are all doing well. Not bad for teams in transition without any playoffs home or away! Now that we are playoff eligible and in the Big Sky I think we will be just fine thank you. So I guess if you look at the facts recruiting will not be an issue now will it?

[Hambone]

Might be the dumbest comment I have read so far...they did just fine recruiting during the transition didn't they when they were guarenteed no playoffs for 5 years home or away! You realize there is no home playoffs in D1 for basketball and hockey right? There is not a UND recruit for football that would ever say that I am not coming because I can't play a home football playoff game in front of my friends...come on you have to be kidding me? Furthermore it was not clear that UND was dropping the name when the Big Sky accepted them, as a matter of fact the SIoux logo took up about half of the Big Sky home page when they welcomed them to the league on their web site.

While I see what you're saying here, the truth of the matter is home playoff football games normally increase the likelihood of a team winning a championship (see NDSU this year, UND in 2001, etc). In addition to education, recurits want to win championships. If they know that they will never have a home field advantage in the playoffs, they might think that their chances at a championship will be diminished. This in turn could cause them to go elsewhere. Also, if there is a possibility year after year of getting kicked out of the conference (think autobid), and they are going to have to recruits go elsewhere out of uncertainty of conference affiliation. Would it happen - who knows - but I would rather not take the chance to find out.

That is how football recruiting can be affected.

[UNDBIZ]

The last football poll I saw had UND ranked in the top 25 which is better than 100 schools in FSC football. UND beat Montana and NDSU in mens basketball. The other sports are all doing well. Not bad for teams in transition without any playoffs home or away! Now that we are playoff eligible and in the Big Sky I think we will be just fine thank you. So I guess if you look at the facts recruiting will not be an issue now will it?

Being ranked #23 is not my goal for the football program. Beating Sioux Falls with a last second field goal is not my goal for the football program. Going the entire season without a road win is not my goal for the basketball program. You assume the Big Sky will keep UND. I'd rather know than assume. I realize you didn't go to UND and you don't care about anything but the MEN'S hockey team and the logo, but the other sports are important to a lot of people and to the University as a whole.

[ksixpack]

Being ranked #23 is not my goal for the football program. Beating Sioux Falls with a last second field goal is not my goal for the football program. Going the entire season without a road win is not my goal for the basketball program. You assume the Big Sky will keep UND. I'd rather know than assume. I realize you didn't go to UND and you don't care about anything but the MEN'S hockey team and the logo, but the other sports are important to a lot of people and to the University as a whole.

I did graduate from UND...I am a season ticket holder for sports other than hockey. I was at the volleyball game against NDSU. I was at Purpur arena to watch the Women's hockey team beat Bemidji in overtime of the WCHA playoffs last year. Don't put me in a box. Being ranked #23 is not my goal for the football team either but I think it is a pretty good start for a team going through D1 transition. I am very excited for all of UND sports as we go forward in D1. I just don't have the belief that the nickname or sanctions will harm us as we are hearing. I also think that there is the ultimate end game that will end off of this controversy once and for all and that is a vote from Standing Rock and I think we are one step closer to that now.

[CAS4127]

Well pick it apart then. Enlighten the rest of us with your wisdom. Easy to sit there with your feet up casting stones. Very sad.

I really don't know where to begin, but I will start with your suggestion that the BSC wants UND so much, and that one of the base reasons for that is that our ND economy is doing well. WTF would that have to do with it?? U are delusional-->fact!!!

[UNDBIZ]

I did graduate from UND...I am a season ticket holder for sports other than hockey. I was at the volleyball game against NDSU. I was at Purpur arena to watch the Women's hockey team beat Bemidji in overtime of the WCHA playoffs last year. Don't put me in a box. Being ranked #23 is not my goal for the football team either but I think it is a pretty good start for a team going through D1 transition. I am very excited for all of UND sports as we go forward in D1. I just don't have the belief that the nickname or sanctions will harm us as we are hearing. I also think that there is the ultimate end game that will end off of this controversy once and for all and that is a vote from Standing Rock and I think we are one step closer to that now.

Hmm, I guess I made an ASSUMPTION. See what happens when people ASSUME things and they are wrong? They look dumb. In the case of the Fighting Sioux debate, the people ASSUMING no harm will come to UND are risking something the rest of us have no intention of losing.

[ScottM]

I just don't have the belief that the nickname or sanctions will harm us as we are hearing.

I also think that there is the ultimate end game that will end off of this controversy once and for all and that is a vote from Standing Rock and I think we are one step closer to that now.

Well, if there was some way you could put your own money where your mouth is with regard to your hypothesis, I'd be more than willing to test it. As it is, the people who will bear brunt of any sanctions are student-athletes currently on campus, and those who may be looking at UND.

As for your second hypothesis, you really need to stop drinking Night Train before you post here.

[CAS4127]

While I see what you're saying here, the truth of the matter is home playoff football games normally increase the likelihood of a team winning a championship (see NDSU this year, UND in 2001, etc). In addition to education, recurits want to win championships. If they know that they will never have a home field advantage in the playoffs, they might think that their chances at a championship will be diminished. This in turn could cause them to go elsewhere. Also, if there is a possibility year after year of getting kicked out of the conference (think autobid), and they are going to have to recruits go elsewhere out of uncertainty of conference affiliation. Would it happen - who knows - but I would rather not take the chance to find out.

That is how football recruiting can be affected.

Also, Hambone, the suggestion that recruits don't care about home PO games is just wrong. I can state from personal experience that home PO games are very much anticipated and enjoyed by players. Also, why do you think teams in the PO attempt to schedule top recruit visits during PO runs??? Nope, recruits/potential players could care less about home PO games, and they neither do nor mean mean anything to the institution, town or program-->nothin'--zero!!

[ksixpack]

I really don't know where to begin, but I will start with your suggestion that the BSC wants UND so much, and that one of the base reasons for that is that our ND economy is doing well. WTF would that have to do with it?? U are delusional-->fact!!!

That's it? That's the best you have? Of everything I have written that is all you can come up with? The fact that the ND economy is doing well is not a big reason to want UND but it helps contribute to the viability of UND. Greater population, increased alumni giving, increased advertising revenue, increased research grants for EERC partnering with Oil boom in the western part of the state, UND aerospace partnering with UAV's for research and technology, lots of good things happening financially in this state and who wouldn't want to be a part of that? Put your feet back up on the desk for awhile as I don't have time to get in a pissing match with a half-wit.