bincitysioux Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 I was horrified today to find that the Sioux are averaging less than 1,600 per game for men's basketball attendance. I've been told many times on this site that when UND starts winning that attendance will rise. North Dakota nearly won 20 games last season, made the post season, hasn't lost at home this year, and is still getting fewer fans to the games than they did in the 1940's................... I've been told that once we have conference affiliation that attendance will surely rise. Well, the University of South Dakota has conference affiliation and they are averaging less than 1,200 per game. Big Sky teams are averaging 2,300 per game, and that includes the anomaly that is Weber St. which averages 6,500 per game. It is sad to me that when players like Jamal Webb have to answer questions to the media about the upcoming NDSU game that he says "he can tell that the game is big deal to fans because last season in Fargo there were alot of UND students at the game because we don't get many students at UND games"............................................. 1 Quote
WYOBISONMAN Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 I get over to some games at Weber once in a while. That is an atmosphere that should be the envy of any Mid-major program. Quote
sioux2013 Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 It would be interesting to see how we rank in attendance for all D1 basketball teams. 1600 is not good but I'm sure its alot better than more schools than you think. I still believe next year being in the Big Sky and more quality opponents the attendance figures will go up. We will see I guess. Of course, tonight will help our numbers. Quote
UNDBIZ Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 I was horrified today to find that the Sioux are averaging less than 1,600 per game for men's basketball attendance. I've been told many times on this site that when UND starts winning that attendance will rise. North Dakota nearly won 20 games last season, made the post season, hasn't lost at home this year, and is still getting fewer fans to the games than they did in the 1940's................... I can't remember who we were playing but I believe we lost the next home game after beating Montana. As far as I know that's the only one this year though so your post still makes a good point. Quote
dmksioux Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Not sure when the game was, but we did lose to Western Illinois at home... EDIT: After looking at the schedule, this game was played the Saturday after the win against Montana. Quote
jdub27 Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 I will agree and think it is a little confusing, but the home schedule hasn't been all that great in terms of teams and timing. Three game of the eight home games have been against Jamestown/Mayville/Valley City, not exactly teams you're going to get a large non-season ticket holder crowd for. Two of the other five home games were Thanksgiving weekend with Montana the night before Thanksgiving and WIU the Saturday after. Both nights that students are gone and alot of people are traveling. The one that confuses me the most is the SDSU game only drawing 1500. Was it because they got blown out so bad the week before? I think a win in front of a large crowd that hasn't been to many games tonight could do alot of attendance going forward. 1 Quote
goyotes Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 With regards to the earlier comment regarding USD's attendance, I believe 2 factors explain the low number. (1) Have only had 2 home conference games so far and they were both over Christmas break & (2) This might be the poorest team the Yotes have put on the court in several years - Quote
WiSioux Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Or just nobody in North Dakota likes basketball... Quote
senor_sieve Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Or just nobody in North Dakota likes basketball... if that's not an ignorant statement. Ever been to the State B tournament? Quote
bincitysioux Posted January 17, 2012 Author Posted January 17, 2012 It would be interesting to see how we rank in attendance for all D1 basketball teams. 1600 is not good but I'm sure its alot better than more schools than you think. I still believe next year being in the Big Sky and more quality opponents the attendance figures will go up. We will see I guess. Of course, tonight will help our numbers. NDSU every other year will obviously inflate the numbers. I'd like to see the program get annual games against SDSU and USD too. Ideally we'd host the South Dakota schools the years that we travel to NDSU and travel to Brookings & Vermillion the years that we host the Bison. One of the most appealing things of the Big Sky to me was the fact that it could potentially guarantee annual games against all of the most intriguing regional teams like Montana, Montana St., NDSU, USD, SDSU............... It seems as if attendance in college basketball is down in general. I'm too lazy to look it up, but when we first made the move I recall examining potential conferences and I seem to remember at the time that the Big Sky was averaging around 3,000 per game. NDSU seems to be doing pretty good averaging around 2,700. SDSU, which plays in a great arena, is a "basketball school", plays in a "basketball state", and has one of their best teams in years, is averaging even less than that. Quote
WiSioux Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 if that's not an ignorant statement. Ever been to the State B tournament? Nope. I wasn't raised in ND. I did however live there for four and a half years during school. I went to a handful of women's games but I don't believe I ever stayed for the men's games. Basketball just doesn't entertain me. Quote
Matt Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Or just nobody in North Dakota likes basketball... That's just a flat out ignorant statement. I guess since you aren't from here we can cut you some slack. Here's a link to the state high school activities site. http://www.ndhsaa.com/ You can see for yourself by the participation how people in this state feel about basketball. I love hockey, but it never caught on in the small towns here like it did over on the MN side. Quote
FSSD Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 NDSU every other year will obviously inflate the numbers. I'd like to see the program get annual games against SDSU and USD too. Ideally we'd host the South Dakota schools the years that we travel to NDSU and travel to Brookings & Vermillion the years that we host the Bison. One of the most appealing things of the Big Sky to me was the fact that it could potentially guarantee annual games against all of the most intriguing regional teams like Montana, Montana St., NDSU, USD, SDSU............... It seems as if attendance in college basketball is down in general. I'm too lazy to look it up, but when we first made the move I recall examining potential conferences and I seem to remember at the time that the Big Sky was averaging around 3,000 per game. NDSU seems to be doing pretty good averaging around 2,700. SDSU, which plays in a great arena, is a "basketball school", plays in a "basketball state", and has one of their best teams in years, is averaging even less than that. Here a list of the average attendance (2010-2011) for MV/BigSky/Summit/Great West schools. The MV schools in general have great attendance and then it is varies by school in the other conferences: Weber St., Montana, and Montana St. for the Big Sky and Oakland, Oral Roberts and NDSU are all over 3,000. One side note - NSDU received a bump last year and I expect that it will drop this year because the UND game accounted for approximately 1/4 of the total attendance last year. I would expect that SDSU and USD would get a bump this year because they have the home/home games this year. I think the SDSU/USD game was the first D1 sellout for SDSU (I think over 6,000 this year in Frost). UND's numbers should bump up becaue of the NDSU game this year. I hope that the NDSU and UND administrators see that the UND/NDSU game should be a home/home series because they are leaving alot of money on the table if they don't. Creighton 13,507 Wichita St. 10,428 Bradley 8,447 Missouri St. 7,595 Weber St. 5,827 Indiana St. 5,602 Evansville 4,910 UNI 4,767 Illinois St. 4,636 Drake 4,230 Southern Ill. 4,188 Oakland 4,130 Montana 3,996 Oral Roberts 3,369 North Dakota St. 3,305 Montana St. 3,228 South Dakota St. 2,503 Southern Utah 2,315 Northern Colo. 2,261 Utah Valley 2,021 IPFW 1,975 Idaho St. 1,921 North Dakota 1,720 South Dakota 1,454 UMKC 1,327 IUPUI 1,252 Chicago St. 1,179 Eastern Wash. 1,101 Portland St. 962 Western Ill. 759 Northern Ariz. 747 Tex.-Pan American 729 Sacramento St. 677 Centenary (LA) 531 NJIT 455 Quote
The Sicatoka Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Basketball just doesn't entertain me. Same issue here. (Sorry basketball fans.) Quote
WILDCAT Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Basketball attendance as a whole is going down, even some schools in the Pac 12 are seeing a downswing in attendance, Weber's attendance has been steadily going up the last few years, from only averaging 4,598 in 08-09 to the 6,494 we are now averaging. The main difference about Weber than most of the other BSC schools is that Weber IS a hoops school, whereas most of the other BSC schools are football schools, Here are our attendance numbers so far not too impressive, but not bad either Game 1 Northern New Mexico: 4,882 Game 2 Utah State: 9,359 Game 3 San Jose State: 5,765 Game 4 Southern Utah: 6,043 Game 5 Mayville State: 5,304 Game 6 Utah: 8,239 Game 7 Idaho State: 6,071 Game 8 Sacramento State: 5,903 Game 9 Montana State 6,134 Game 10 Montana: 7,236 Quote
zonadub Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Here are our attendance numbers so far not too impressive, but not bad either Game 5 Mayville State: 5,304 I am impressed that Weber can get over 5,000 people in the building to watch MAYVILLE! Quote
gfhockey Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 here there is a line for the student entrance tonite. thats a good sign Quote
FSSD Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Hey Wildcat - is the Weber St fan base execited about SUU joining and do you see them becoming a rival? Quote
WILDCAT Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Hey Wildcat - is the Weber St fan base execited about SUU joining and do you see them becoming a rival? Absolutely, We have been wanting SUU in the conf for a while now, a chance for us to build our own instate/inconference rivalry, however I think it will be a bigger football rivalry than a basketball rivalry I'm also excited about all the other BSC additions, UND, UCD, CPSLO, they are all great institutions and will only make this a stronger conference. Quote
Mr. Jackrabbit Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 NDSU seems to be doing pretty good averaging around 2,700. SDSU, which plays in a great arena, is a "basketball school", plays in a "basketball state", and has one of their best teams in years, is averaging even less than that. Figured I'd clarify a few things on attendance numbers: SDSU is one of the few schools in DI that does "actual attendance" rather than "paid attendance." Therefore, if SDSU says there was 2,000 in attendance, there was actually 2,000 people in the buidling, not 1,200 with 800 posing as empty seats. Some school's "paid attendance" are closer to the "actual attendance" than others. There are schools that will just count all season ticketholders regardless of their presents at the game (which generally doesn't inflate the numbers too bad) and there are others that will count giveaway tickets and the entire capacity of the student section regardless of use. The best way to expose severe numbers tampering is to look at the yearly ticket revenue. SDSU had over double the ticket revenue of every other state school combined (USD, Northern State, Black Hills State, School of Mines, Dakota State), which is interesting being that USD shows attendance figures not much lower than SDSU's. And just so it doesn't look like I'm picking on USD, here is a video of over 3,400 screaming Golden Eagle fans when SDSU played at Oral Roberts last year (starts at the 25 sec mark): Moral of the story: Attendance numbers can be deceiving! 1 Quote
darell1976 Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Is there a list of schools that use actual attendance instead of paid attendance? I suppose the NCAA doesn't care as long as the $$$ rolls in. Quote
Mr. Jackrabbit Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Is there a list of schools that use actual attendance instead of paid attendance? I suppose the NCAA doesn't care as long as the $$$ rolls in. I have not seen a list of schools that state whether a school does actual vs. paid, but I know of SDSU's attendance policy because of being associated with the program. Here is an article in Forbes that explains why it's more profitable to report paid attendance over actual, and though it focuses on pro sports, the general principles still apply to college sports. http://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmoney/2011/05/25/how-sports-attendance-figures-speak-lies/ Quote
darell1976 Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I have not seen a list of schools that state whether a school does actual vs. paid, but I know of SDSU's attendance policy because of being associated with the program. Here is an article in Forbes that explains why it's more profitable to report paid attendance over actual, and though it focuses on pro sports, the general principles still apply to college sports. http://www.forbes.co...res-speak-lies/ If you followed the business of sports, you’ll know that about 20 years ago, the move to count tickets sold, as opposed to turnstile clicks, became what is reported in the boxscores. The reason – wholly done for accounting purposes for the clubs – showed what matters to owners most: money. Quote
zonadub Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Must have all been behind the camera, huh? Quote
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