Kelley / SBoHE Deceived the Legislature and ND People

[Cratter]

Do you all believe what you are told, the ones the mainstream media pushes, never really asking the question behind the question. They don't attack us because we are free and we're rich.

Here is the truth. The commissioner of a conference (the summit) is on record saying the UND president asked him to make the Sioux name an issue, to publicly forward the idea. The Summit leader agreed.

UND asked an athletic conference it once considered joining to publicly come out against accepting the Fighting Sioux as a member until the controversial nickname and logo issue was resolved, according to Summit League Commissioner Tom Douple.

And knowing this you really don't believe Kelly didn't do the same thing with the Big Sky? All arrows point to YES!

Is it really that hard to connect the dots?

[Goon]

I don't know about the readers, but the contributors and most of the posters prove the latter to be true every day.

I think there are some solid people that read that site and blog there, they're wrong on the Logo Issue. Personally, I think if people are concerned about the way the SBoHE is run, this is the wrong issue to go after them on.

[Cratter]

I think there are some solid people that read that site and blog there, they're wrong on the Logo Issue. Personally, I think if people are concerned about the way the SBoHE is run, this is the wrong issue to go after them on.

I think people just want the truth as to what is happening in this situation.

[Siouxperman8]

This is all a bunch of drivel. See Sic's comment above. Kelly and Faison could continue to fight for a lost cause if they wanted to, but we had 3-5 years to resolve it and lost at every turn.

Some fool's blog will not change that. It is time to move on and spend our energy to make the university and teams better, not try to save our favorite hockey jersey at the expense of the rest of our sports.

[Cratter]

This is all a bunch of drivel. See Sic's comment above. Kelly and Faison could continue to fight for a lost cause if they wanted to, but we had 3-5 years to resolve it and lost at every turn.

Some fool's blog will not change that. It is time to move on and spend our energy to make the university and teams better, not try to save our favorite hockey jersey at the expense of the rest of our sports.

It is possible to see the truth and still think we should move on? I don't see those are mutually exclusive. I agree it's best to move on and get a new nickname. There is really nothing UND can do at this point. The sanctions would continue.

My biggest issue now is how UND is going to choose a new nickname. I fear it will not be an open process and our president, who has a history of backdoor shady dealings, will ultimately pick the name. But I guess that is three years away and if you ask me this is also dysfunctional to UND. It gives people like DaveK hope for three years and won't make the name issue go away anytime soon. If they don't get the petition numbers what stops them from trying next year or the next?

[Teeder11]

I think people just want the truth as to what is happening in this situation.

Fair enough, no media is totally unbiased ... but you've got to ask yourself, do you want to get your information from an off-the-cliff biased political blog that cares nothing about UND and UND athletics and that is using the popular and devisive nickname issue (something that the public can easily identify with) as a means to achieve its (and Al Carlson's) true ulterior goal -- to bring down and restructure the State Board of Higher Education? It all depends on what flavor kool-aid you want to drink.

[Cratter]

Fair enough, no media is totally unbiased ... but you've got to aks yourself, do you want to get your information from an off-the-cliff biased political blog that cares nothing about UND and UND athletics and that is using the popular and devisive nickname issue (something that the public can easily identify with) as a means to achieve its (and Al Carlson's) true ulterior goal -- to bring down and restructure the State Board of Higher Education? It all depends on what flavor of kool-aid you want to drink.

While I never really go on Say Anything Blog. It apparently has an influence. Journalism is long gone out the window. "Journalists" are just people. They shouldn't really have any more influence than me and you. They get things wrong a lot. They control the message of the country. I have learned many things about this country thanks to youtube that the MSM doesn't ever talk about.

I think its good to have many outlets of information. And in some ways I think some blogs are actually helping expose the truth that many mainstream media doesn't report on.....Not necessarily talking about SAB, but many others in the political realm.

While you might not agree with SAB, I haven't seen anything that is posted there that is "wrong."

My biggest issue is this, which was printed not on a blog, but in an actual "newspaper". Should I believe a newspaper or people trying to discredit him on a anonymous siouxsports blog.

UND asked an athletic conference it once considered joining to publicly come out against accepting the Fighting Sioux as a member until the controversial nickname and logo issue was resolved, according to Summit League Commissioner Tom Douple.

[star2city]

star,

Get it through your head: Goetz was put in place to "deal" (spelled: make go away) with two things -- NDSU's "budget" issues and UND's moniker issue.

...

Inside job? Probably. But not by Kelley and Faison (who weren't on the job yet). The "inside job" was Hoeven and Goetz did the "wet work". And as ScottM has noted numerous times, if a US Senator or two called the NCAA (as the Florida Senators did for Florida State) the NCAA would scurry away quickly. But, now-Senator Hoeven remains in absentia. ... Then again, former US House of Representatives Speaker Denny Hastert (R - Illinois) couldn't save Chief Illiniwek for U of Illinois.

Of course it is an inside job. The whole last several years, including the NCAA meeting, were all charades. None of ND congressional delegation was going to do anything - they all wanted the nickname gone. The Governor wouldn't lift a finger. But yet, the state's leadership in both parties and the media all played along on the charade to dupe the public into believing that real conversation and political process was going on.

That's not the definition of a representative democracy, but rather a banana republic. Kelley and state leaders are espousing lies and outright deceit. If you are fine with that, Lord help our country.

Finally, a Sioux reservation has a major voice in an issue that pertains to the entire state, and they are blown off again as being entirely irrelevant. The Sioux people and all North Dakotan's could for once have been of one voice.

[82SiouxGuy]

Here is the truth. The commissioner of a conference (the summit) is on record saying the UND president asked him to make the Sioux name an issue, to publicly forward the idea. The Summit leader agreed.

Have you ever seen the quote where Mr. Douple actually said this? This is from the Kolpack article that started this:

"The University of North Dakota asked an athletic conference it once considered joining to publicly come out against accepting the Fighting Sioux as a member until the controversial nickname and logo issue was resolved, according to Summit League Commissioner Tom Douple."

No actual quote. Or real proof. And later:

"Commissioner Douple did not want to go into further detail on the issue, but when asked why he agreed to UND’s request – that the Summit League would publicly forward this idea – he said, “In support of the (UND) president. He thought it would help them and the board move quicker.” "

We don't have a quote, just Kolpack's interpretation. And Douple went along with the idea to support a school that wasn't a member of the conference, even though it was going to put the conference in the middle of a PR mess. That doesn't make sense to most people. I would need actual quotes with some other evidence before believing that article.

[82SiouxGuy]

Of course it is an inside job. The whole last several years, including the NCAA meeting, were all charades. None of ND congressional delegation was going to do anything - they all wanted the nickname gone. The Governor wouldn't lift a finger. But yet, the state's leadership in both parties and the media all played along on the charade to dupe the public into believing that real conversation and political process was going on.

That's not the definition of a representative democracy, but rather a banana republic. Kelley and state leaders are espousing lies and outright deceit. If you are fine with that, Lord help our country.

Finally, a Sioux reservation has a major voice in an issue that pertains to the entire state, and they are blown off again as being entirely irrelevant. The Sioux people and all North Dakotan's could for once have been of one voice.

Let me try to summarize for you. All of the political leaders in North Dakota got together on this and decided to get rid of the Fighting Sioux nickname. That includes Democrats and Republicans at both the state and Federal levels. Leaders in higher education were also in on the plan, as well as the people at the NCAA and all of the media in the state other than Scott Hennen and his cohorts. Then they all decided to set up a farce of an effort to make "the people" believe that they tried to save it even though they really didn't try. That's what you really believe? I wish all of those people could work together to make some decisions on the really important matters of the day.

From uslegal.com:

"Representative democracy is a form of democracy founded on the principle of elected individuals representing the people. Here, people allow representatives who form an independent ruling body to represent them in the various forms of democratic process and are not directly involved in any of the processes of legislation or lawmaking. This form of democracy is found at the federal level of the U.S., and the branches of government in U.S. act on behalf of the people. To a very large extent, the whole concept of representation depends upon the ability of the people to make their wishes known to their representatives. Representative democracy is often considered as superior to direct democracy because it provides a solution for the problems of mob rule, issue overload, and demagogy."

Government officials are hired to make decisions in the best interests of the people, not to follow the wishes of the people. The best interests of the people are not always the same as the wishes of the people. Not the same as a banana republic.

[Teeder11]

Have you ever seen the quote where Mr. Douple actually said this? This is from the Kolpack article that started this:

"The University of North Dakota asked an athletic conference it once considered joining to publicly come out against accepting the Fighting Sioux as a member until the controversial nickname and logo issue was resolved, according to Summit League Commissioner Tom Douple."

No actual quote. Or real proof. And later:

"Commissioner Douple did not want to go into further detail on the issue, but when asked why he agreed to UND’s request – that the Summit League would publicly forward this idea – he said, “In support of the (UND) president. He thought it would help them and the board move quicker.” "

We don't have a quote, just Kolpack's interpretation. And Douple went along with the idea to support a school that wasn't a member of the conference, even though it was going to put the conference in the middle of a PR mess. That doesn't make sense to most people. I would need actual quotes with some other evidence before believing that article.

"Journalism is long gone out the window. 'Journalists' are just people. They shouldn't really have any more influence than me and you. They get things wrong a lot. They control the message of the country. I have learned many things about this country thanks to youtube that the MSM doesn't ever talk about." -- Cratter.

^^^^Couldn't have said it better myself, and I speak from personal experience.

[Teeder11]

Damn liberal, PC WDAZ!!! Now they got a guy that sounds exactly like Big Sky commissioner Doug Fullerton on the phone and made him say negative things about UND's nickname and the school's future in the conference. Damn it to hell! First the Herald makes up quotes and attributes them to Fullerton and now DAZ ups the ante and hires a voice imitator to stoop even lower.

See for yourself.

http://www.wdaz.com/...ticle/id/11728/

[82SiouxGuy]

"Journalism is long gone out the window. 'Journalists' are just people. They shouldn't really have any more influence than me and you. They get things wrong a lot. They control the message of the country. I have learned many things about this country thanks to youtube that the MSM doesn't ever talk about." -- Cratter.

^^^^Couldn't have said it better myself, and I speak from personal experience.

Been there myself.

[82SiouxGuy]

Damn liberal, PC WDAZ!!! Now they got a guy that sounds exactly like Big Sky commissioner Doug Fullerton on the phone and made him say negative things about UND's nickname and the school's future in the conference. Damn it to hell! First the Herald makes up quotes and attributes them to Fullerton and now DAZ ups the ante and hires a voice imitator to stoop even lower.

See for yourself.

http://www.wdaz.com/...ticle/id/11728/

I don't know how they could afford a Fullerton impersonator. Those guys usually get big money. And they got him to make up things like possibly moving UND out of the conference if the problem persists. That couldn't really happen, could it?

[WYOBISONMAN]

New nickname = blasphemy

If we can't have the Fighting Sioux nickname we should go with no nickname at all, and I don't mean for a mere three year cooling off period. I mean FOREVER. Anybody who states a desire for UND to have a new nickname was never a Sioux fan to begin with.

Says the guy who is an alumnus of NO North Dakota institution..........

[82SiouxGuy]

New nickname = blasphemy

If we can't have the Fighting Sioux nickname we should go with no nickname at all, and I don't mean for a mere three year cooling off period. I mean FOREVER. Anybody who states a desire for UND to have a new nickname was never a Sioux fan to begin with.

And exactly who put you in charge of determining who is and isn't a Sioux fan? I'm pretty sure you weren't elected to that position.

[Cratter]

"Commissioner Douple did not want to go into further detail on the issue, but when asked why he agreed to UND’s request – that the Summit League would publicly forward this idea – he said, “In support of the (UND) president. He thought it would help them and the board move quicker.” "

there is the quote buddy!!!!

Keep the blinders on! God bless your soul.

[Cratter]

Says the guy who is an alumnus of NO North Dakota institution..........

While you have a point. I don't try and discredit people just cause they never attended UND. He is a true bloood Fighiting Sioux fan. While I don't agree with him, he has heart and for that he is a great Sioux fan.

[82SiouxGuy]

there is the quote buddy!!!!

Keep the blinders on! God bless your soul.

That quote says they wanted to support UND and its president. It doesn't say what happened, what he did or what Kelley did. Sorry, that doesn't tell us much of anything. And there is absolutely no supporting evidence. Try again.

[ScottM]

And exactly who put you in charge of determining who is and isn't a Sioux fan? I'm pretty sure you weren't elected to that position.

You'll have to remember that Dave only cheers for team names. He doesn't give a damn about the teams themselves, or the institutions they represent.

[The Sicatoka]

Anyone have the final thoughts from Tim Hennessy to close Saturday's Harvard at North Dakota mens hockey radio broadcast recorded and available?

Tim Hennessy, a man with unquestionable allegiance, (paraphrased) said the logo never scored a goal and went on to state why if losing the "Fighting Sioux" moniker and logo causes you to no longer be a fan or reduces your interest then you really never were a fan of what this program stands for.

[Snake]

Anyone have the final thoughts from Tim Hennessy to close Saturday's Harvard at North Dakota mens hockey radio broadcast recorded and available?

Tim Hennessy, a man with unquestionable allegiance, (paraphrased) said the logo never scored a goal and went on to state why if losing the "Fighting Sioux" moniker and logo causes you to no longer be a fan or reduces your interest then you really never were a fan of what this program stands for.

Exactly. I was very glad I got back to my car in time after the game to hear him say this.

Remember: It was the UNIVERSITY OF NORTH DAKOTA Fighting Sioux....not the Fighting Sioux of the University of North Dakota.

University comes first.

[The Sicatoka]

And Hennessy said what he said at about 10:00 pm Saturday, December 31, 2011, two hours to the official change.

Folks, Tim Hennessy gave the eulogy, a beautiful one at that, speaking both fondly of the past and what must come now.

Do what you have to do to get through the five stages (DABDA) and move on.

[CMSioux]

The time has come to move on and let others take the battle to the NCAA dictatorship. Move on with dignity, but remember and respect the past.

[jdub27]

While you have a point. I don't try and discredit people just cause they never attended UND. He is a true bloood Fighiting Sioux fan. While I don't agree with him, he has heart and for that he is a great Sioux fan.

Exactly. He (along with others) is not a fan of the University of North Dakota. He (they) doesn't care what happens to the University as a whole and what keeping the Fighting Sioux nickname could mean for the student-athletes, the athletic department or the Univsersity of North Dakota. He's (They're) a fan of a nickname and logo and are willing to risk the school's ability to continue to move onward and upward in both academics and athletics.