Conference Realignments - Take 2

[Herd]

I think USD and SDSU are in the SL for good since the tourny is in SF...but maybe NDSU needs to think about leaving for the BSC especially if more teams leave. Imagine the new BSA hosting a conference tournament, not possible in the SL. Time will tell if they and SDSU are connected to the hip.

So NDSU can travel more, spend more, with fewer fans on the road, with fewer rivals games, and further from key recruiting bases? Do you really think so Darell? Clearly not advantageous for NDSU, and not in the cards.

[JohnboyND7]

You act as if there is a decision to make. Even if we take your word that the Summit is a better basketball conference, without a home for football, it simply doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if the Summit has a better RPI, has a better tournament, includes traditional rivals, is less expensive, etc. UND is simply never going to voluntarily choose a conference affiliation that leaves its football team independent. It will never happen. It's not even a remote consideration. The fatal flaw in your argument here is that there is no evidence that the MVFC wants UND. All of the public information available suggests that MVFC does not want UND. You don't claim to have any inside information that contradicts the public record. Thus, this "debate" is a complete waste of time in my opinion because you are making a gigantic assumption (UND can easily get into the MVFC) without a shred of evidence.

I do wonder if UND wanted to leave the Big Sky for Olympic sports if the Big Sky would let them stay for football. Don't care one way or the other...and don't see it happening or anything..

[darell1976]

So NDSU can travel more, spend more, with fewer fans on the road, with fewer rivals games, and further from key recruiting bases? Do you really think so Darell? Clearly not advantageous for NDSU, and not in the cards.

So was that the same excuse you guys used when trying to get into the Big Sky? I thought NDSU travels well...or is that just football only.

http://helenair.com/sports/ndsu-sdsu-to-seek-membership-in-big-sky-conference/article_8c971b6d-1516-5709-83af-d32a625b3851.html

NDSU President Joseph Chapman said he and SDSU President Peggy Miller finalized their schools’ intent to apply to the Big Sky Conference together on Friday.

Chapman and Miller said NDSU and SDSU present the Big Sky with similar land-grant portfolios to current league members Montana State, University of Montana and Idaho State.

“They are just excellent matches for NDSU and SDSU,” Chapman said.

Miller said NDSU and SDSU “hope to make a case that will make them believe they are better with us.”

The mighty Joe Chapman didn't care about travel costs, so why should Bison fans?

[darell1976]

Funny how Bison fans didn't care about the Mid Con (SL)

http://www.bisonville.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-5890.html

WYOBISONMAN

12-07-2003, 03:15 PM

Again.....most NDSU fans could care less about the teams in the Mid-con. *It is a conference comprised of "Second Tier" schools in thier respective states. *NDSU should be in the Big Sky. *We would have incredible rivalries with the Montana schools and be with institutions similar to NDSU both in thier role in thier respective states and in the states they represent.

Who remembers back in 1970-1980 when we played Montana State EVERY year....it was a great game that the fans really got up for. *Or playing NAU in the Skydome at Flagstaff or on Dakotah field... *That too happened almost every year in the 70's - 81. *

NDSU needs to reclaim those rivalries as well as continue to develop one with Montana. There is no question the BSC would do more than any other conference for NDSU and that is why it needs to be our top choice.

NDSU_grad

12-06-2003, 07:50 PM

You only have to go 20 miles west and ND suddenly takes on a western feel. I think the name recognition is the most important thing. "Ordinary" people can much more easily comprehend playing Idaho State, Montana, and Montana State than IUPUI, Oral Roberts, etc. Nothing against the latter schools, but that's just the way it is.

IowaBison

12-06-2003, 08:58 PM

I would take more pride in playing a Montana, Montana State and losing than beating up on relative no-names as Mid-Con Schools are to most folks from the Upper Midwest.

There are far more advantages to playing in the Big Sky to playing in the Mid-Con.

D

12-08-2003, 12:52 AM

I don't understand Bisonfan1234's infatuation with Oakland (the team he thought was Oral Roberts) and the Mid-Con. It is amongst the D1 worst conferences in the country in both academics and athletics. The member schools have extremely lax admission standards (other than Valpo) and are mainly institutions located in large metro areas where media coverage of them is iffy at best. Not having football as a conference takes away from the rivalries and general atmosphere in all other sports. The hatred of other schools wouldn't nearly be what it could be if football was a Mid-Con sport. I don't think there should be any doubt that the Big Sky is NDSU's best conference fit. The Mid-Con really doesn't make a whole lot of sense, even geographically.

So Bison fans in 2003 bashed the Mid Con (SL), and praised the Big Sky, now in 2013 they bash the Big Sky and praise the SL. Bison fans crack me up.

[Siouxperfan7]

Funny how Bison fans didn't care about the Mid Con (SL)

http://www.bisonvill...php/t-5890.html

So Bison fans in 2003 bashed the Mid Con (SL), and praised the Big Sky, now in 2013 they bash the Big Sky and praise the SL. Bison fans crack me up.

Remember, Bison fans have very short and selective memories!!

[JohnboyND7]

Funny how Bison fans didn't care about the Mid Con (SL)

http://www.bisonvill...php/t-5890.html

So Bison fans in 2003 bashed the Mid Con (SL), and praised the Big Sky, now in 2013 they bash the Big Sky and praise the SL. Bison fans crack me up.

UND fans in 2003 trashed Division I and praised Division II, now in 2013, probably nearly everyone here supports the move to division one?

Honestly, I think more people knew about the Big Sky at the time...and there is nothing wrong with the Big Sky...just a lot of travel and stuff....I think NDSU or UND in the Big Sky is a bit similar to Iowa State in the Big XII....nothing wrong with it...just an outlier in a group.

That said, Darell, you know dang well had UND went to the Summit that you'd be speaking the Summit's praises. Let me guess....Nebraska fans speak highly of the Big XII and Missouri fans speak highly of the SEC?

[darell1976]

UND fans in 2003 trashed Division I and praised Division II, now in 2013, probably nearly everyone here supports the move to division one?

Honestly, I think more people knew about the Big Sky at the time...and there is nothing wrong with the Big Sky...just a lot of travel and stuff....I think NDSU or UND in the Big Sky is a bit similar to Iowa State in the Big XII....nothing wrong with it...just an outlier in a group.

That said, Darell, you know dang well had UND went to the Summit that you'd be speaking the Summit's praises. Let me guess....Nebraska fans speak highly of the Big XII and Missouri fans speak highly of the SEC?

UND fans trashing DI? As far as I know UND fans wanted to move up with the SU's. Please link us to the trashing of DI and the praising of DII.

[Herd]

Remember, Bison fans have very short and selective memories!!

Is it really that hard for people here to understand? Do I really need to explain it again?

There is a big difference in comparing options between. . .

Big Sky vs Summit only, and Big Sky vs Summit/MVFC

Anyone in there right minds would rather be in the Big Sky vs the Summit only, which is what Bison fans were comparing in those posts. Why do you keep posting that stuff, it's irrelevant.

What's relevant is where UND wants to be if the Summit/MVFC is available to them. That's all that is relevant in this discussion. No one (including UND) would think about leaving the Big Sky unless the football offer is in place.

[darell1976]

Is it really that hard for people here to understand? Do I really need to explain it again?

There is a big difference in comparing options between. . .

Big Sky vs Summit only, and Big Sky vs Summit/MVFC

Anyone in there right minds would rather be in the Big Sky vs the Summit only, which is what Bison fans were comparing in those posts. Why do you keep posting that stuff, it's irrelevant.

What's relevant is where UND wants to be if the Summit/MVFC is available to them. That's all that is relevant in this discussion. No one (including UND) would think about leaving the Big Sky unless the football offer is in place.

So no one would've complained about travel if they were allowed to join the BSC in 03? So today if given a chance to join the BSC as a non-football member Bison fans would love that?

[Bison Dan]

So no one would've complained about travel if they were allowed to join the BSC in 03? So today if given a chance to join the BSC as a non-football member Bison fans would love that?

Back in 03 the BSC was the only conference that might have been looking. The Summit and MVC wasn't an option. Figure it out now?

[SiouxVolley]

Back in 03 the BSC was the only conference that might have been looking. The Summit and MVC wasn't an option. Figure it out now?

The Mvfc is not an option. Bisin fans can t manuever themselves out of paper bags.ì

[zonadub]

Back in 03 the BSC was the only conference that might have been looking. The Summit and MVC wasn't an option. Figure it out now?

the Summit and MVC are not an option now. Douple has turned his back on UND since Nov 2009 and Vivitero expressly said the invitation to South Dakota was because UND was not included. Now, with the Summit's basketball auto bid in jeopardy, some fans are bringing the subject up, but there has been no indication from either conference that they have changed their positions on adding UND.

On top of that, when I was in school my hope was always that if UND ever moved to DI that it could get into the Big Sky. Now, here we are and, really, it's a nice place to be. It is a tough conference with history, credibility and STABILITY.

Yes, it is a loss of nostalgic rivalries, but it also differentiates UND from the other Dakota/I-29 schools- in a good way. Except for a few schools, western conferences are not bus leagues. All 3 of them cover the western third of the country. The cost may be a little higher, but is it really better to sit on a bus all day to get to Fort Wayne than it is to fly to Flagstaff?

[JohnboyND7]

UND fans trashing DI? As far as I know UND fans wanted to move up with the SU's. Please link us to the trashing of DI and the praising of DII.

Jackpot. Some suggest a wait-and-see, most suggest doom-and-gloom for the Mighty Bison.

[Bison Dan]

The Mvfc is not an option. Bisin fans can t manuever themselves out of paper bags.ì

I've never said it was or that UND should consider switching conferences. As a Bison fan I enjoy going to away FB games and watch BB games that start at 7:00CT.. If UND is happy in the BSC good for you.

[FargoBison]

I think some Bison fans highlight all the wrong differences when talking about the Big Sky vs Summit/MVFC. Most do get travel right but from a strength stand point and where the conferences fit in the DI landscape it is basically the same. The MVFC and Big Sky are obviously both elite FCS leagues and for other sports the Big Sky and Summit are mostly one bid leagues.

Travel is a real difference, it helps having a few bus trips. Especially in regards to non-revenue sports. Recruiting is another advantage of the Summit/MVFC, there is no denying the conference's footprint is where the bulk of our student athletes come from.

The Summit does have a stability issue, obviously.

[Cratter]

And that stability issue far outweighs any other cost benefit factor.

[Cratter]

It's not should UND move to the Summit/MVFC. It's the other Dakotas should move to the Big Sky having all the Dakotas and Montana in one power conference. The Montana's aren't going anywhere and UND would rather be playing them than the South Dakotas.

[JohnboyND7]

It's not should UND move to the Summit/MVFC. It's the other Dakotas should move to the Big Sky having all the Dakotas and Montana in one power conference. The Montana's aren't going anywhere and UND would rather be playing them than the South Dakotas.

You think a conference with about a million teams sounds stable? Thats what the Big East thought...

[FSSD]

You think a conference with about a million teams sounds stable? Thats what the Big East thought...

You need to go and talk this one over with your dad - all I have to say is WHAT?!?!?

The Big East had both football and basketball interests within the conference this lead to the instability of the Big East. The Summit League is a basketball only conference, but schools within the conference have both Football and Basketball interests. This could lead to instability.. Big Sky's largest threat was FBS football and the WAC - that is gone now. Big Sky stable.

[fightingsioux4life]

I think Bison fans want UND in the Summit/MVFC because, deep down in places they don't talk about at parties, they want (they NEED) UND back on their schedules for ALL sports EVERY year. But their Chapman-induced Ego Inflation Disorders, which are only made worse by their ubiquitous media megaphones KFGO and KVLY, won't allow them to express this in public, certainly not on siouxsports.com. Forbidden fruit is always the tastiest, isn't it?

[JohnboyND7]

I think Bison fans want UND in the Summit/MVFC because, deep down in places they don't talk about at parties, they want (they NEED) UND back on their schedules for ALL sports EVERY year. But their Chapman-induced Ego Inflation Disorders, which are only made worse by their ubiquitous media megaphones KFGO and KVLY, won't allow them to express this in public, certainly not on siouxsports.com. Forbidden fruit is always the tastiest, isn't it?

I'd like UND in the Summit. We play them in all the Summit sports anyway. Would give the Summit a good core of NDSU, SDSU, UND, USD, UN-O. The Valley, meh, I don't see UND getting in for the reasons discussed before. I'm content to play UND in football in the playoffs. Perhaps that'd get things rolling again in terms of playing during the regular season but maybe not. Some folks are hardcore about either playing again, or not playing again.

[SiouxVolley]

I'd like UND in the Summit. We play them in all the Summit sports anyway. Would give the Summit a good core of NDSU, SDSU, UND, USD, UN-O. The Valley, meh, I don't see UND getting in for the reasons discussed before. I'm content to play UND in football in the playoffs. Perhaps that'd get things rolling again in terms of playing during the regular season but maybe not. Some folks are hardcore about either playing again, or not playing again.

NDSU fans just don't want UND in a better conference. The Summit could just as well the old Dakota Conference with Mary, Minot St, and Dakota. Cuts down on traveling expense is the excuse. What's your basketball record this year? When IPFW is the star, that tells you something.

[southpaw]

I'd like UND in the Summit. We play them in all the Summit sports anyway. Would give the Summit a good core of NDSU, SDSU, UND, USD, UN-O. The Valley, meh, I don't see UND getting in for the reasons discussed before. I'm content to play UND in football in the playoffs. Perhaps that'd get things rolling again in terms of playing during the regular season but maybe not. Some folks are hardcore about either playing again, or not playing again.

I think that's one of the reasons UND isn't in the Summit. They get conference games against the Big Sky schools and scheduling non-conference games is pretty simple with NDSU, SDSU, USD and UNO just down the road. It's actually a pretty nice benefit for UND to not be in the same league.

[JohnboyND7]

NDSU fans just don't want UND in a better conference. The Summit could just as well the old Dakota Conference with Mary, Minot St, and Dakota. Cuts down on traveling expense is the excuse. What's your basketball record this year? When IPFW is the star, that tells you something.

The bball team has played one game...that is worth counting anyway. 0-1. When you are counting "stars" this early in the season it shows an obvious troll attempt.

What was UND's record against the Summit last year eh?

[homer]

I've never said it was or that UND should consider switching conferences. As a Bison fan I enjoy going to away FB games and watch BB games that start at 7:00CT.. If UND is happy in the BSC good for you.

It's FU fans that try and tell UND fans they want a new conference.