Conference Realignments - Take 2

[Kab]

Hope administration and AD are on top of this

if ndsu gets in and not UND  there is no way ndsu would vote to let UND in later 

the state needs to be on top of this too 

[Hawkster]

2 hours ago, andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!! said:

If they are going FBS, UND better get the announcement out first. 

What are you announcing?   No one move up without a conference invite.   I wouldn't even bet on the XDSU's getting invited.   Us announcing does nothing.

[zonadub]

The Montanas  would be first in line if the MWC goes the northern route, then probably Idaho. The Dakotas are outside the MWC footprint and if they want it to happen, all 4 should be pitching it together.

[nodak651]

46 minutes ago, zonadub said:

The Montanas  would be first in line if the MWC goes the northern route, then probably Idaho. The Dakotas are outside the MWC footprint and if they want it to happen, all 4 should be pitching it together.

I think NDSU would be pumped to separate themselves from UND again though wouldn't they?

[nodak651]

 

[AJS]

46 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

I think NDSU would be pumped to separate themselves from UND again though wouldn't they?

Of course. Unlike when these schools transitioned from D2 to FCS, there would be a fight coming from GF and Bismarck. I'm not sure though that NDSU would be counting on additional funding from the state, so probably a moot point. 

 

Side note: I think it's most logical for the 4 Dakota schools to go into this together. 

[nodak651]

UC Davis AD

[Sioux>Bison]

16 minutes ago, nodak651 said:

UC Davis AD

UC Davis has a student population over 40,000! They just need to make their sports more relevant!

[Sioux>Bison]

Weber State, Sac St, and UC Davis all have schools that academically and enrollment wise align with the MWC much better than the Dakotas or Montanans. Why go out of your geographic footprint if you don’t have to?

[JacksonW]

Why would they want to share media money with teams that will bring minimal  additional media revenue. The dearth of population is a difficult hurdle to overcome, especially 4 ways. Just not enough eyeballs

[FSSD]

Does anyone know that the approximate dollar amount for a school to move from FCS to FBS?

- $5 million Fee to join FBS

- All Football Bowl Subdivision schools also would be required to provide 90% of the allowable scholarships in 16 sports, including football, over a rolling two-year period. In addition, the measure also calls on FBS schools to offer at least 210 scholarships per year at a price tag no lower than $6 million.

-  I know that you have the 20% approximate $20 million is revenue sharing for the A4 schools.  It sounds like the Sun Belt has said that they are going to set a minimum number for conference members.  But they have not stated what that number is at this point.  Nor have I seen other G5 conferences document their approach to this.  To be honest, I am not sure that it is required at G5.  But it would definitely limit a school's ability to complete without it.  So, my guess is that it would be in the $2 to $5 million range annually. 

Plus, you have coaching salary increases.

So, my guess with increases in salaries and other factors you are looking at 8 figures annually (x0,000,000).  Am I way off on that estimate?  Thoughts?

[AJS]

5 minutes ago, FSSD said:

Does anyone know that the approximate dollar amount for a school to move from FCS to FBS?

- $5 million Fee to join FBS

- All Football Bowl Subdivision schools also would be required to provide 90% of the allowable scholarships in 16 sports, including football, over a rolling two-year period. In addition, the measure also calls on FBS schools to offer at least 210 scholarships per year at a price tag no lower than $6 million.

-  I know that you have the 20% approximate $20 million is revenue sharing for the A4 schools.  It sounds like the Sun Belt has said that they are going to set a minimum number for conference members.  But they have not stated what that number is at this point.  Nor have I seen other G5 conferences document their approach to this.  To be honest, I am not sure that it is required at G5.  But it would be definitely limit a school's ability to complete without it.  So, my guess is that it would be in the $2 to $5 million range annually. 

Plus, you have coaching salary increases.

So, my guess with increases in salaries and other factors you are looking at 8 figures annually (x0,000,000).  Am I way off on that estimate?  Thoughts?

I was wondering the same thing. For the sake of this argument, let's get rid of the one-time $5 million fee. I look at it two different ways.

1. Hard yearly increase. Scholarships, Travel, ect. None-negotiable type of things.
2. Do you want to compete increase. Coaching salaries, ect.

 

Using SHSU for example. Did they move to the G5 just to move, without the ability to compete consistently because they don't have the $. You would think looking at Average budgets that most schools would need $20 Million additional to their budget yearly if they want to compete.

 

 

 

[FSSD]

2 hours ago, AJS said:

I was wondering the same thing. For the sake of this argument, let's get rid of the one-time $5 million fee. I look at it two different ways.

1. Hard yearly increase. Scholarships, Travel, ect. None-negotiable type of things.
2. Do you want to compete increase. Coaching salaries, ect.

 

Using SHSU for example. Did they move to the G5 just to move, without the ability to compete consistently because they don't have the $. You would think looking at Average budgets that most schools would need $20 Million additional to their budget yearly if they want to compete.

 

 

 

Looking at current numbers would be misleading because most of this stuff is new and so we don't have data available to support an estimate.  Plus, I am not sure how you can account for NIL money on top it.  So, you have direct school expenses and then you have indirect to the school but athlete direct revenue that really plays into the overall successful of an athletic department.  So, are you saying $20 million for both on the schools' books and off the schools' books to complete?

[JohnboyND7]

21 hours ago, zonadub said:

The Montanas  would be first in line if the MWC goes the northern route, then probably Idaho. The Dakotas are outside the MWC footprint and if they want it to happen, all 4 should be pitching it together.

Footprints don't exist anymore. It's not like it's a bus league either.

If the MWC wants NDSU/SDSU, I think you guys would be left behind. 

[AJS]

16 minutes ago, FSSD said:

Looking at current numbers would be misleading because most of this stuff is new and so we don't have data available to support an estimate.  Plus, I am not sure how you can account for NIL money on top it.  So, you have direct school expenses and then you have indirect to the school but athlete direct revenue that really plays into the overall successful of an athletic department.  So, are you saying $20 million for both on the schools' books and off the schools' books to complete?

I'm just looking at current operating budgets for athletic programs.

2023 Numbers:

FCS:

Cal Davis: $48,022,363

Sac State: $44,732,992

UND / NDSU: $33 / 32 million

Montana State / SDSU / Montana: $28-26 million

USD: $23 million

Mountain West:

Air Force / UNLV: $67 million

Utah State / Nevada / Wyoming / New Mexico: 51 to 47 million

 

I'm just saying from an operating standpoint, for most schools, it's going to take a heavy investment yearly to be comparable. 

[FSSD]

Oh, I agree.  Does xDSU and Montana's have the extra $20 m to complete at the highest level of G5?  I think you are only looking at a $5 m bump from guarantees and TV rights at the G5 level.  So, you are looking $15 m annually.  You are going to need 30,000 seat stadiums to help pay for this.  We are talking about Mcfeely and Dom money here.

[Kab]

1 hour ago, AJS said:

I'm just looking at current operating budgets for athletic programs.

2023 Numbers:

FCS:

Cal Davis: $48,022,363

Sac State: $44,732,992

UND / NDSU: $33 / 32 million

Montana State / SDSU / Montana: $28-26 million

USD: $23 million

Mountain West:

Air Force / UNLV: $67 million

Utah State / Nevada / Wyoming / New Mexico: 51 to 47 million

 

I'm just saying from an operating standpoint, for most schools, it's going to take a heavy investment yearly to be comparable. 

Mcfooley says the state has a lot of oil money and should finance ndsu making the move

what an idiot

tell that to the towns that need new schools, new infrastructure ,roads, bridges 

athletics should be way down the list 

students should not have to pay extra tuition to make this move

any money should be donated 

[JohnboyND7]

41 minutes ago, FSSD said:

Oh, I agree.  Does xDSU and Montana's have the extra $20 m to complete at the highest level of G5?  I think you are only looking at a $5 m bump from guarantees and TV rights at the G5 level.  So, you are looking $15 m annually.  You are going to need 30,000 seat stadiums to help pay for this.  We are talking about Mcfeely and Dom money here.

This assumes you need to pay the same as other schools.  

But $15 million annually maybe doable with alums and Fargo business in mind. I was like 10 when NDSU moved up to D1, so a bit young for that. But the internet is forever, and there was some skeptical folks about that.  

 

[fightingsioux4life]

37 minutes ago, Kab said:

Mcfooley says the state has a lot of oil money and should finance ndsu making the move

what an idiot

tell that to the towns that need new schools, new infrastructure ,roads, bridges 

athletics should be way down the list 

students should not have to pay extra tuition to make this move

any money should be donated 

Agree. That is never going to happen.

McFeely is just throwing click bait out for people to react to. Don't take it.

[FSSD]

43 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

This assumes you need to pay the same as other schools.  

But $15 million annually maybe doable with alums and Fargo business in mind. I was like 10 when NDSU moved up to D1, so a bit young for that. But the internet is forever, and there was some skeptical folks about that.  

 

I think $15 million annually is just to compete in what is left in the MWC (without revenue sharing).  It does not include revenue sharing or trying to keep up with the new Pac-12 for the playoff spot with budgets around $60m.  Those numbers are easily $30 to $35 more annually plus revenue sharing.  To do that they are going to need a 35,000 to 40,000 seat stadium and 8,000 to 10,000 seat arenas.  Not saying it can't be done.  But, I think it is fair to ask how.  By the way, many had no doubt that xDSU would transition well to FCS.  In fact, almost everyone called the NCC a D-I conference when it was D-II back in the day. 

[jdub27]

22 hours ago, AJS said:

I'm not sure though that NDSU would be counting on additional funding from the state, so probably a moot point. 

They needed a mid-7 figures extra line item money from the state just to run their university because they can't make their budget work...

[AJS]

44 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said:

This assumes you need to pay the same as other schools.  

But $15 million annually maybe doable with alums and Fargo business in mind. I was like 10 when NDSU moved up to D1, so a bit young for that. But the internet is forever, and there was some skeptical folks about that.  

 

I agree, it might be doable. I've learned better than to doubt NDSU. Even looking at the difference between NDSU / UND and SDSU and the Montana schools. Seems like a decent amount annually.

It comes down to if you're going to want to do it right, these schools will need 10-20 million more (depending on current levels). 

You also could go the Sam Houston State route and go just to go. Wouldn't cost you as much. 

[Hayduke1]

Montana, Montana State, NDSU, and SDSU should join the MWC.  Time to move up 

 

UND and USD should stay FCS in the MVFC. 

[fightingsioux4life]

1 hour ago, Hayduke1 said:

Montana, Montana State, NDSU, and SDSU should join the MWC.  Time to move up 

 

UND and USD should stay FCS in the MVFC. 

[Hayduke1]

4 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:

That’s fair. Let’s see what happens.