southpaw Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 49 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said: Championships build fan bases. It's rather simple. Mankato isn't that popular now but if it won, it's economic viability vastly increases. Another stupid comment by a self professed expert. Michigan Tech renovated their arena and has won three championships, but Upper Michigan simply doesn't have enough people. Tech's graduates mostly live in Lower Michigan and rarely congregate except in Detroit for hockey Tech has a proven hockey commitment which you deny, so throw your opinions out as they are garbage. That's the type of instability the NCHC wants to avoid. It shouldn't take a championship for a program to become financially viable. Look at Providence... they're 5 years removed from a championship, have recently won in a top conference, and have shrinking attendance. If a school is relying on fans to show up after a championship, then it's not financially stable. Every program is going to have ups and downs, but if a program goes without any sort of success for a dozen years, they should still be improving their financial commitment. Michigan Tech hasn't won a championship since 1975, so I don't see how those are relevant. Yes, Tech has played hockey for a long time and their program is not going to fold anytime soon. That's completely different from showing a financial commitment to hockey. Coaches salaries are a good indicator. From the data i found, not a single coach in the WCHA can make more than $300,000 including incentives. And now the NCHC base salaries: Berry $400,000 Sandelin $400,000 Murray $230,000 plus $110,000 in appearance/media fees Bergeron $305,000 Gabinet $250,000 As a private school, CC and DU aren't listed, but CC is building a new on-campus arena despite a huge lack of success in the NCHC. That's a financial commitment to hockey that is what separates the schools the NCHC wants to include from ones who do just enough to keep their program around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpaw Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 17 hours ago, SiouxVolley said: N Dame refused to be an actual partner and the NCHC was not high faluting enough for them, as they took their own deal with bigger name name schools like BC, UConn, Providence and the Hockey East with a separate NBC Sports deal. The NCHC was just too low of a conference in name to be associated with and besmirch their precious name just for hockey. But then walked away for similar deal the Big Ten and NBC Sports, which most had never assumed they would do as ND and the BIG are mortal enemies. Some people actually do know what they're talking about on this board. Fortunately, Brad Schlossman's extensive set of articles about the formation of the NCHC shows you're once again wrong: Quote “We made this real commitment early on that the strength of any possible future conference would only and solely be determined by the unity of its membership,” Alberts said. “We saw the impact on college football based on one program demanding to be treated differently than others. It pulls a conference apart at the seams. We made a commitment to four or five core principles and we were determined not to deviate.” Notre Dame wanted to control the league’s television deal, and NCHC members stayed committed to not letting them do that. The NCHC set a deadline for Notre Dame to decide in the early fall. The Fighting Irish called and asked for an extension, but the NCHC said no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 What folks are missing here: Do want to be in a conference where teams want in , or out? The NCHC is a destination conference. Want in? Make your case, but you'd better bring something to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpaw Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said: What folks are missing here: None of us are missing that. We're all in agreement that the NCHC is a destination conference and that you have to be special to get in. Where we disagree is what needs to be special to get in. Some believe attracting fans after having a successful year is what matters. Other feel that a long-term financial commitment to hockey is more important. I'd rather have CC with its sporadic success but financial resources. Others prefer a school like Mankato that is growing but somehow needs to rely on an additional 300 people per game to be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodak651 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 6 hours ago, SiouxVolley said: Championships build fan bases. It's rather simple. Mankato isn't that popular now but if it won, it's economic viability vastly increases. Another stupid comment by a self professed expert. Michigan Tech renovated their arena and has won three championships, but Upper Michigan simply doesn't have enough people. Tech's graduates mostly live in Lower Michigan and rarely congregate except in Detroit for hockey Tech has a proven hockey commitment which you deny, so throw your opinions out as they are garbage. 47 minutes ago, southpaw said: None of us are missing that. We're all in agreement that the NCHC is a destination conference and that you have to be special to get in. Where we disagree is what needs to be special to get in. Some believe attracting fans after having a successful year is what matters. Other feel that a long-term financial commitment to hockey is more important. I'd rather have CC with its sporadic success but financial resources. Others prefer a school like Mankato that is growing but somehow needs to rely on an additional 300 people per game to be considered. SiouxVolley, I think you're wrong on this one. Mankato has the 15th best attendance in the country - that's better than half of the NCHC. Mankato hockey not that popular, relative to... what exactly? Tech which is averaging 3,065 at 68.6% capacity? Mankato is averaging 4,514 at 93.4% capacity. https://fanforum.uscho.com/showthread.php?116064-Average-Men-s-Attendance/page12&highlight=attendance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Mankato has to become popular in the entire MSP or even the Rochester metro. It doesn't have a metro region like CC has now, and CC is downsizing it's arena. Michigan Tech has a Jamestown size metro. CBS Sports looks at Mankato and Mich Tech and says no, not interested. Bowling Green faces the same issue. CBS would be give UST and ASU a resounding yes. Attendance does not reflect the the interest if it's a big metro or large area (UND). Something called ratings that trumps attendance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodak651 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 20 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said: Mankato has to become popular in the entire MSP or even the Rochester metro. It doesn't have a metro region like CC has now, and CC is downsizing it's arena. Michigan Tech has a Jamestown size metro. CBS Sports looks at Mankato and Mich Tech and says no, not interested. Bowling Green faces the same issue. CBS would be give UST and ASU a resounding yes. Attendance does not reflect the the interest if it's a big metro or large area (UND). Something called ratings that trumps attendance. CBS Sports is a non factor. They don't pay the NCHC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, nodak651 said: CBS Sports is a non factor. They don't pay the NCHC. They bring tons of national publicity, which is what every conference wants. Never brought attendance up: southpaw did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpaw Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 34 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said: Mankato has to become popular in the entire MSP or even the Rochester metro. It doesn't have a metro region like CC has now, and CC is downsizing it's arena. Michigan Tech has a Jamestown size metro. CBS Sports looks at Mankato and Mich Tech and says no, not interested. Bowling Green faces the same issue. CBS would be give UST and ASU a resounding yes. Attendance does not reflect the the interest if it's a big metro or large area (UND). Something called ratings that trumps attendance. What does CBS have to do with what schools are accepted to the NCHC? You clearly don't understand how games are picked for broadcast on CBS. And are you really insinuating that Mankato winning a championship is going to drive up significant interest in viewers in the twin cities would be a tipping point for the nchc accepting Mankato? Hint: The NCHC isn't bringing in money from CBS broadcasts. And it certainly isn't concerned about an extra couple of thousand people watching the 1-2 games that would feature Mankato each year if they were accepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodak651 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 minute ago, SiouxVolley said: They bring tons of national publicity, which is what every conference wants. Never brought attendance up: southpaw did. I directly quoted you. Never disputed that. College hockey tv ratings are terrible, though. The NCHC is most likely paying CBS to air these games if anything. Again, its a non factor, but a team like Mankato would draw the same or better than many teams already in the conference. Media market only matters with big time negotiations, such as when the big ten network gets added to cable packages in certain regions due to local university conference affiliations. And if people in a big market don't watch, it doesnt matter how many people live there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, southpaw said: What does CBS have to do with what schools are accepted to the NCHC? You clearly don't understand how games are picked for broadcast on CBS. Every conference speed dials their national broadcaster before they make a move unless the conference is run by idiots . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpaw Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said: Every conference speed dials their national broadcaster before they make a move unless the conference is run by idiots . There is the confirmation that you know nothing about college hockey and broadcast contracts. CBS is broadcasting 8 of 192 conference games. Plus 3 more tournament games and none of the entire first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, nodak651 said: I directly quoted you. Never disputed that. College hockey tv ratings are terrible, though. The NCHC is most likely paying CBS to air these games if anything. Again, its a non factor, but a team like Mankato would draw the same or better than many teams already in the conference. Media market only matters with big time negotiations, such as when the big ten network gets added to cable packages in certain regions due to local university conference affiliations. And if people in a big market don't watch, it doesnt matter how many people live there. A local team of interest, even if it is only passing interest, creates much larger ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 18 minutes ago, southpaw said: There is the confirmation that you know nothing about college hockey and broadcast contracts. CBS is broadcasting 8 of 192 conference games. Plus 3 more tournament games and none of the entire first round. It's a matter of basic business courtesy, which you apparently know nothing about. New venues also have broadcasting issues and the call isn't for choosing games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWSiouxMN Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Stepping away from Hockey here for a second, I want to go back to St. Thomas here If we are to believe the tea-leaves it sounds more likely that not that St. Thomas will get their waiver in April and they will be in the league in 2021. Now what would happen with Augie? As the Forum noted, would the Summit go to 11 or would they say: we good at 10. Or by adding Augie... do they think another team will be out the door soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yote 53 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 As far as the Summit is concerned the only talk about Augie to the Summit has come from the Sioux Falls media. Nobody from Augie has contacted the Summit about possible membership last I heard. It's now been two years since Augie announced they were going D1 and then... Summit is good at 10. Augie shouldn't even be considered. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpaw Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, SiouxVolley said: It's a matter of basic business courtesy, which you apparently know nothing about. New venues also have broadcasting issues and the call isn't for choosing games. Oh, so now that must make phone call is just a courtesy? You made it sound like an absolute necessity. Perhaps only broadcasting 8 effing games from venues doesn't require a phone call. CBSSN has broadcasted games from Air Force where the game cam is in the middle of the press box with the front legs on a table, tight cam is on a mobile platform, and the announcers are calling the game from a folding table directly behind the top row of fans. There are no fiber or triax runs and your entire production truck needs to be searched before being allowed on campus. It's literally the worst place in college hockey to broadcast a game and yet they still do it. Of course CBS would prefer to do games from the Ralph but don't act like venues are an issue. Of all the times you've made an ass of yourself with horrible predictions that are insanely wrong, you're well out of your league on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 minute ago, southpaw said: Oh, so now that must make phone call is just a courtesy? You made it sound like an absolute necessity. Perhaps only broadcasting 8 effing games from venues doesn't require a phone call. CBSSN has broadcasted games from Air Force where the game cam is in the middle of the press box with the front legs on a table, tight cam is on a mobile platform, and the announcers are calling the game from a folding table directly behind the top row of fans. There are no fiber or triax runs and your entire production truck needs to be searched before being allowed on campus. It's literally the worst place in college hockey to broadcast a game and yet they still do it. Of course CBS would prefer to do games from the Ralph but don't act like venues are an issue. Of all the times you've made an ass of yourself with horrible predictions that are insanely wrong, you're well out of your league on this one. Your business knowledge is zero. The NCHC wants the relationship to grow, but you just want your own way always irrespective of logic. Mich Tech has millions in it's state that have interest in hockey and has a $100 million endowment so it is capable of financing hockey fully. Mankato has competition from SCSU and Duluth for MSP viewers so it's almost impossible even if they had won a championship. Attendance for the Gophers is almost zero, but that doesn't mean there aren't Gopher faithful viewers. Attendance is not equal to ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, SWSiouxMN said: Stepping away from Hockey here for a second, I want to go back to St. Thomas here If we are to believe the tea-leaves it sounds more likely that not that St. Thomas will get their waiver in April and they will be in the league in 2021. Now what would happen with Augie? As the Forum noted, would the Summit go to 11 or would they say: we good at 10. Or by adding Augie... do they think another team will be out the door soon? Often said that UST will be in the Summit only for the transition and then will be invited to the MVC. Augie is the fallback position regardless. Sure that some posters disagree, but moves are made for two moves later. UST had so many things going for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNDBIZ Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Yote 53 said: As far as the Summit is concerned the only talk about Augie to the Summit has come from the Sioux Falls media. Nobody from Augie has contacted the Summit about possible membership last I heard. It's now been two years since Augie announced they were going D1 and then... Summit is good at 10. Augie shouldn't even be considered. Good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 More on the St Thomas move: https://theathletic.com/1620293/2020/02/20/st-thomas-tommies-division-i-transition-miac-division-iii-ncaa-rules/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siouxperfan7 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 https://www.inforum.com/bison-media-zone/mens-sports/basketball/4986513-Augustana-applies-for-Summit-membership-but-there-may-be-acceptance-issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSSD Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 4 hours ago, Siouxperfan7 said: https://www.inforum.com/bison-media-zone/mens-sports/basketball/4986513-Augustana-applies-for-Summit-membership-but-there-may-be-acceptance-issues Does Augie hope for: UNC or St. Johns or Mankato or UMD to move up … or WIU or ORU to drop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, FSSD said: Does Augie hope for: UNC or St. Johns or Mankato or UMD to move up … or WIU or ORU to drop? None of them. UST will be invited to the MVC after the transition and the Summit will be back to Augie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodak651 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 Douple actually saying this does not sound good for Augie's chances: “It’s a small school in a small state with a small alumni base with a small endowment,” Douple said on Dom Izzo’s radio show on WDAY-AM. “They have to get over that and present some added value in a media market where both SDSU and USD dominate. What is the added value and they have to sell that to our presidents.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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