Conference Realignments - Take 2

[The Sicatoka]

10 minutes ago, nd1sufan said:

The Deputy Commissioner of the BSC was on Kolpack and Izzo on Saturday and they asked him about BSC to FBS. He didn't make it sound like anything there are seriously looking at. He made it sound like more of a pipe dream by a few than a movement by the masses. 

Apparently you have little experience in politics, and that's all the NCAA is. You'll get a media-ready, political answer whether they are looking at it a lot, a little, or none. 

[Gothmog]

2 hours ago, UND1983 said:

Who said it was a movement by the masses?  The fact is that it only takes 6 schools to be together for X number of years to move up to FBS.  That is what he stated and what I reiterated.  Stay focused.

Whether it's a pipe dream for the masses or a pipe dream for six teams, it's still a pipe dream:

pipe dream

noun

 

1. an unattainable or fanciful hope or scheme.

   synonyms:

   fantasy, false hope, illusion, delusion, daydream, chimera; More

[Jackie Treehorn]

4 minutes ago, Gothmog said:

Whether it's a pipe dream for the masses or a pipe dream for six teams, it's still a pipe dream:

pipe dream

noun

 

1. an unattainable or fanciful hope or scheme.

   synonyms:

   fantasy, false hope, illusion, delusion, daydream, chimera; More

 

Why you mad?

[UND1983]

2 minutes ago, Jackie Treehorn said:

Why you mad?

Sounds more worried to me.  

[Jackie Treehorn]

6 minutes ago, UND1983 said:

Sounds more worried to me.

Must be. He's posting definitions of a well known phrase.

[zonadub]

Don't know if SiouxVolley's scenario will actually happen (even though the pieces seem to be falling into place) but it is sure entertaining to watch the Bison trolls panic as the story unfolds.

[GFG]

2 hours ago, dakota said:

Don't know if SiouxVolley's scenario will actually happen (even though the pieces seem to be falling into place) but it is sure entertaining to watch the Bison trolls panic as the story unfolds.

It's definitely not a guarantee that it happens, but it's undeniable that a lot of the pieces that are required for it to happen are falling into place. Do you even need those teams together for 'x' amount of years if you keep it under the umbrella of the BSC? Because I was under the impression his comments made it sound like you need those teams together that long if you're starting a new FBS conference just because of the basketball bid, but if you're creating the FBS conference under the umbrella of an existing conference the teams didn't need to be together 'x' amount of years because they already have the bball NCAA tourney autobid with the BSC. I'd appreciate if someone can clarify that one a bit for me.

The Idaho AD's comments made it seem like it was entirely possible to make it happen, but at the same time he wasn't guaranteeing anything like that would happen. IMO, I think it will all depend on what happens with Idaho in the wave of realignments that will occur after UCONN and Cincy are announced to the Big XII. If they're able to find a permanent home after that wave of realignment the BSC schools that want to move up will probably stay put for now, but if it comes down to it and the BSC is Idaho's only option I bet they'll drop down to FCS and work hard on trying to make the FBS transition for the BSC. 

[SiouxVolley]

46 minutes ago, GFG said:

It's definitely not a guarantee that it happens, but it's undeniable that a lot of the pieces that are required for it to happen are falling into place. Do you even need those teams together for 'x' amount of years if you keep it under the umbrella of the BSC? Because I was under the impression his comments made it sound like you need those teams together that long if you're starting a new FBS conference just because of the basketball bid, but if you're creating the FBS conference under the umbrella of an existing conference the teams didn't need to be together 'x' amount of years because they already have the bball NCAA tourney autobid with the BSC. I'd appreciate if someone can clarify that one a bit for me.

The Idaho AD's comments made it seem like it was entirely possible to make it happen, but at the same time he wasn't guaranteeing anything like that would happen. IMO, I think it will all depend on what happens with Idaho in the wave of realignments that will occur after UCONN and Cincy are announced to the Big XII. If they're able to find a permanent home after that wave of realignment the BSC schools that want to move up will probably stay put for now, but if it comes down to it and the BSC is Idaho's only option I bet they'll drop down to FCS and work hard on trying to make the FBS transition for the BSC. 

My interpretation of the Idaho Ad's comments are that if at least six FBS schools defect from an FBS conference to an FCS one, that FCS conference wound become FBS.  Say if the western side of CUSA defected, UTEP, UTSA, Rice, N Texas, La Tech and S Miss and joined with NMSU and Idaho, that would be a new FBS conference and they can invite whomever they want further.  CUSA is now too unwield6, so a split is probable in the future.

But the negative effect of losing CFP money would be profound for those schools, so don't think it will happen.  But theoretically, those seven could break off again, invite Wichita St, Mo St, and maybe Ark St and have a new Southwest Conference, while the Big Sky could have Idaho and at least seven other invitees.  There are creative ways to build FBS conferences, but teams would lose out on CFP money until the next contract.

[darell1976]

2 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

My interpretation of the Idaho Ad's comments are that if at least six FBS schools defect from an FBS conference to an FCS one, that FCS conference wound become FBS.  Say if the western side of CUSA defected, UTEP, UTSA, Rice, N Texas, La Tech and S Miss and joined with NMSU and Idaho, that would be a new FBS conference and they can invite whomever they want further.  CUSA is now too unwield6, so a split is probable in the future.

But the negative effect of losing CFP money would be profound for those schools, so don't think it will happen.  But theoretically, those seven could break off again, invite Wichita St, Mo St, and maybe Ark St and have a new Southwest Conference, while the Big Sky could have Idaho and at least seven other invitees.  There are creative ways to build FBS conferences, but teams would lose out on CFP money until the next contract.

I want you to answer this:  I know Fullerton wants half of the BSC to move up, the Montana's are fine, however UND doesn't have the facility to host a minimum of 15,000 people like the FBS rule says. Now if Eastern Michigan can average 3400 a year and get away with it, would in the "rule changes" the NCAA get rid of that 15k attendance rule? The timelines for the new FBS conferences, almost coincides with the ending of the lease at the Alerus. Maybe a big donor, or a fundraiser will get Memorial up to 20k capacity if they don't get rid of the rule.

[SiouxVolley]

1 minute ago, darell1976 said:

I want you to answer this:  I know Fullerton wants half of the BSC to move up, the Montana's are fine, however UND doesn't have the facility to host a minimum of 15,000 people like the FBS rule says. Now if Eastern Michigan can average 3400 a year and get away with it, would in the "rule changes" the NCAA get rid of that 15k attendance rule? The timelines for the new FBS conferences, almost coincides with the ending of the lease at the Alerus. Maybe a big donor, or a fundraiser will get Memorial up to 20k capacity if they don't get rid of the rule.

The NCAA has been a stickler for rules when a team is in the FBS transition.  After it reaches that, not so much.

UND could expand Memorial to 20k cheaply, and play late season games in the Alerus.  That would be the El cheapo route.  Remember that an FBS transition school doesn't have to have an average of 15k attendees, just has to average 15k tickets sold at 1/3 the price.  Another way could be play a home against the Gophers in Vikings Stadium and expand Memorial to 15k.

[GFG]

3 minutes ago, darell1976 said:

I want you to answer this:  I know Fullerton wants half of the BSC to move up, the Montana's are fine, however UND doesn't have the facility to host a minimum of 15,000 people like the FBS rule says. Now if Eastern Michigan can average 3400 a year and get away with it, would in the "rule changes" the NCAA get rid of that 15k attendance rule? The timelines for the new FBS conferences, almost coincides with the ending of the lease at the Alerus. Maybe a big donor, or a fundraiser will get Memorial up to 20k capacity if they don't get rid of the rule.

The facilities plan calls for a 25,000 seat retractable roof stadium right where Memorial is right now. The plan was to build that when the Alerus wasn't big enough for UND football which they supposedly were thinking would be around 2025-2030ish. If they have the opportunity to move up to FBS they might be able to find a big donor willing to help move the project up. 

 

[SWSiouxMN]

What would be more likely, Idaho going to the Sky or taking the Indy route?

 

[GFG]

6 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

The NCAA has been a stickler for rules when a team is in the FBS transition.  After it reaches that, not so much.

UND could expand Memorial to 20k cheaply, and play late season games in the Alerus.  That would be the El cheapo route.  Remember that an FBS transition school doesn't have to have an average of 15k attendees, just has to average 15k tickets sold at 1/3 the price.  Another way could be play a home against the Gophers in Vikings Stadium and expand Memorial to 15k.

That could certainly help clear them for one of the 2 transition years. Problem is that I don't think Minnesota can play them if they're not fully FBS yet. 

[SiouxVolley]

1 minute ago, SWSiouxMN said:

What would be more likely, Idaho going to the Sky or taking the Indy route?

 

Idaho will go the Big Sky route because their President wants to.  What isn't clear yet is if there is an FBS option to the Big Sky.

[darell1976]

12 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

The NCAA has been a stickler for rules when a team is in the FBS transition.  After it reaches that, not so much.

UND could expand Memorial to 20k cheaply, and play late season games in the Alerus.  That would be the El cheapo route.  Remember that an FBS transition school doesn't have to have an average of 15k attendees, just has to average 15k tickets sold at 1/3 the price.  Another way could be play a home against the Gophers in Vikings Stadium and expand Memorial to 15k.

And UND being "FBS" would be perfect for the Big 10 who won't play FCS teams anymore. 

[SiouxVolley]

2 minutes ago, GFG said:

That could certainly help clear them for one of the 2 transition years. Problem is that I don't think Minnesota can play them if they're not fully FBS yet. 

A team doesn't need to meet the attenance or stadium requirements in the first year when UND would be counted as FCS.

A second year transition team counts as FBS to all opponents.

[SiouxVolley]

1 minute ago, darell1976 said:

And UND being "FBS" would be perfect for the Big 10 who won't play FCS teams anymore. 

Exactly.  Which i think the B1G and other P5 conferences are leading the charge to change the FBS transition rules behind the scenes.

[SWSiouxMN]

I guess the other question I have is if Idaho does go down the Big Sky route, how soon do they say yes?  Something that comes down in a few weeks or something that happens later on in the summer (with an extension of the deadline)

[SiouxVolley]

Just now, SWSiouxMN said:

I guess the other question I have is if Idaho does go down the Big Sky route, how soon do they say yes?  Something that comes down in a few weeks or something that happens later on in the summer (with an extension of the deadline)

The Big Sky supposedly gave a May 4th soft deadline to Idaho.  That's not much time to get schedules ready for 2018.

[Siouxperfan7]

58 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said:

The NCAA has been a stickler for rules when a team is in the FBS transition.  After it reaches that, not so much.

UND could expand Memorial to 20k cheaply, and play late season games in the Alerus.  That would be the El cheapo route.  Remember that an FBS transition school doesn't have to have an average of 15k attendees, just has to average 15k tickets sold at 1/3 the price.  Another way could be play a home against the Gophers in Vikings Stadium and expand Memorial to 15k.

Kind of playing it fast and loose with the word "cheaply" there!! 

[The Sicatoka]

20.9.9.3 Football-Attendance Requirements. [FBS] Once every two years on a rolling basis, the institution shall average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football games.

Key words above are "paid attendance". Why? 

20.9.9.3.1.2 Paid Attendance. [FBS] For purposes of computing paid attendance figures, tickets must be sold for at least one-third of the highest regular established ticket price as established prior to the season, regardless of whether they are used for admission.

Thus was the birth of the "Eastern Michigan Solution": EMU bought enough tickets at 1/3 price to ensure they met the 15k rule every other year. What money did they do that with? Why, money that was earmarked for football already. They just "laundered" it one extra step. Instead of "donation -> FB" it became "donation -> buy tickets -> football". 

[GFG]

20 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

20.9.9.3 Football-Attendance Requirements. [FBS] Once every two years on a rolling basis, the institution shall average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football games.

Key words above are "paid attendance". Why? 

20.9.9.3.1.2 Paid Attendance. [FBS] For purposes of computing paid attendance figures, tickets must be sold for at least one-third of the highest regular established ticket price as established prior to the season, regardless of whether they are used for admission.

Thus was the birth of the "Eastern Michigan Solution": EMU bought enough tickets at 1/3 price to ensure they met the 15k rule every other year. What money did they do that with? Why, money that was earmarked for football already. They just "laundered" it one extra step. Instead of "donation -> FB" it became "donation -> buy tickets -> football". 

And there you have it

[The Sicatoka]

Don't you hate it when someone actually quotes the source documents?

[darell1976]

5 minutes ago, The Sicatoka said:

Don't you hate it when someone actually quotes the source documents?

And that EMU solution is our "ticket" to the next level. Our attendance now is almost 3 times as much as EMU, 15k in 1 of 2 years shouldn't be tough.

[The Sicatoka]

Food for thought: 

15000 per game * $75 season (5 game) ticket package no wait, 1/3 price ... 

15000 per game * $25 season (5 game) ticket package = $375,000.