Conference Realignments - Take 2

[homer]

I would take the Summit's word over the UND administration. Never a good idea for a president or administration to admit that they didn't want the nickname in Grand Forks.

But its a better idea for a conference commissioner to bend over for a school who is not even a member?

[bincitysioux]

Funny isn't it, how Douple only came out with the "nickname conspiracy" theory after his conference was in the hurt bag........................

Fact is, Douple blew it with North Dakota, and he knows it. NDSU's own president gave him a negative review.

For those that think that newly hired UND president Robert Kelley has enough power to persuade an NCAA Conference Comissioner to insert his positions into a federal lawsuit for the better-ment of a University that is not even a member of said conference, well then I've got some nice ocean front property for sale in between Bismarck and Fargo that may interest you....................

[FSSD]

I would take the Summit's word over the UND administration. Never a good idea for a president or administration to admit that they didn't want the nickname in Grand Forks.

So, you would take the word of Summit admin over NDSU's AD also.... since somebody wasn't telling the truth in that case also. Or you have 1 common element in both - hmmmm.. or Colonel Muster did it with a rope in the kitchen. Who really knows..

The one thing odd about Douple and his statement about UND's request to leverage the nickname issue. IMO if you are going to make statements like that you had better back it up. If you don't back then up you look whiny and vindictive.

[FSSD]

Most UND fans point to two major dust ups that have left Douple and Summit in a questionable light:

1) After USD was invited to join the Summit League. The NDSU AD and Douple were quoted in the media as to why UND was not being considered for membership. Unfortunately, the two quotes did not mess. Then Douple tried to clean up the media mess with an extremely ambiguous follow-up interview - which did not answer anything. So, the first introduction to the Summit League was a bit awkward. Again, none of the quotes came from UND administration. This mess was solely a communications mess between NDSU and Douple.

2) The second media mess was after UND cancelled the Summit League site visit and joined the Big Sky. Douple stated something to the effect that UND asked the Summit League to make joining the conference conditional upon the retirement of the Sioux nickname. A statement that UND leaders are on record denying. I know that the media (GF Herald) has tried several times to interview Douple and he has denied those requests. So, who is telling the truth - no one knows that this point. But, Douple has been given every opportunity to make a statement on record in GF. He could be taking the high road who knows. But, he came off as whiny and vindictive after UND cancelled the site visit.

So the Summit League completely stumbled out of the gate and they have never recovered.

I forgot about this one, which happened this spring:

3) Adding UND as a baseball member:

Douple:

Asked about UND and baseball affiliation with the Summit, Douple said it was “discussed among some members” but “(UND) hadn’t indicated anything.”

“I know they were looking for a home for baseball, that was obvious because they joined the Big Sky,” Douple said.

Baseball Coach:

UND head coach Jeff Dodson, however, told the Grand Forks Herald newspaper, “We had applied for the Summit but I never heard anything personally from them.”

http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/event/article/id/65690/

[bincitysioux]

It is quite obvious to anybody not wearing green & yellow or blue & yellow glasses, that Douple has an axe to grind against North Dakota, even if that means damaging his own conference. There is absolutely no excuse for the Summit not pursuing North Dakota for affiliate membership in baseball, when it has obviously been made public that UND had a desire to join.

The Summit League's leadership is inept, there is no way around it. It is not surprising that even NDSU's president has questioned Douple's leadership....................

[GeauxSioux]

I forgot about this one, which happened this spring:

3) Adding UND as a baseball member:

Douple:

Asked about UND and baseball affiliation with the Summit, Douple said it was “discussed among some members” but “(UND) hadn’t indicated anything.”

“I know they were looking for a home for baseball, that was obvious because they joined the Big Sky,” Douple said.

Baseball Coach:

UND head coach Jeff Dodson, however, told the Grand Forks Herald newspaper, “We had applied for the Summit but I never heard anything personally from them.”

http://www.thedickin...ticle/id/65690/

So knowing that UND was looking for a place to park baseball, he is either inept for not approaching UND or his bitterness clouds what is best for the conference. Either way it doesn't look good for Douple.

Conference membership isn't a one size fits all. The dynamics change from school to school. 89Rabbit posted an alumni map on the sdsufans forum showing that their alumni base is to their east, more so than west. Although I have not seen a UND alumni map, I have heard that UND, other than North Dakota and Minnesota, is more west than east.

When the MVC was looking for a new member recently, I posted on another board that SDSU would be the best of the Dakota schools to be chosen due to their location and being more "basketball first" than the other Dakota schools. Of course Lakes blasted it, but that shouldn't surprise anyone.

I still say that the BIg Sky is the best conference for UND, as an FCS school.

[UNDBIZ]

Conference membership isn't a one size fits all. The dynamics change from school to school. 89Rabbit posted an alumni map on the sdsufans forum showing that their alumni base is to their east, more so than west. Although I have not seen a UND alumni map, I have heard that UND, other than North Dakota and Minnesota, is more west than east.

After ND and MN, I would guesstimate the majority of UND alums live in #1 Arizona (mix, but primarily older alums) and #2 Colorado (younger alums).

[SiouxVolley]

It is quite obvious to anybody not wearing green & yellow or blue & yellow glasses, that Douple has an axe to grind against North Dakota, even if that means damaging his own conference. There is absolutely no excuse for the Summit not pursuing North Dakota for affiliate membership in baseball, when it has obviously been made public that UND had a desire to join.

The Summit League's leadership is inept, there is no way around it. It is not surprising that even NDSU's president has questioned Douple's leadership....................

Don't see Kelley and Faison even want to associate with Douple after what Douple accused them of. Bottom line, they probably told other Summit Presidents that they'd only consider the Summit for baseball if Douple's head was on a platter. Guess the Summit chose to keep Douple, but maybe at the expense of the league. Bresciani seems to be the only Summit League President that wants Douple fired.

The other thing to consider is that UND has swimming in the WAC. How would the WAC react if UND rejected their baseball offer? Forcing UND swimming into the Summit diminishes UND swimming, especially with their only good swimming team Oakland threatening to leave.

[jdub27]

Don't see Kelley and Faison even want to associate with Douple after what Douple accused them of. Bottom line, they probably told other Summit Presidents that they'd only consider the Summit for baseball if Douple's head was on a platter. Guess the Summit chose to keep Douple, but maybe at the expense of the league. Bresciani seems to be the only Summit League President that wants Douple fired.

The other thing to consider is that UND has swimming in the WAC. How would the WAC react if UND rejected their baseball offer? Forcing UND swimming into the Summit diminishes UND swimming, especially with their only good swimming team Oakland threatening to leave.

I'm going to disagree with the baseball part. I think that if the Summit offered UND a baseball home, they would have taken it regardless of Douple being the commissioner. Dodson more or less said that is where they wanted to be. And I doubt that Faison and Kelley thought they would have that amount of pull to request something like that. UND wasn't working from a position of leverage (not that the Summit was either). I think pride got in the way and the Summit blew a chance to help stabilize their baseball conference. I also think the WAC helped out UND with its baseball invite and would understand if they would have chosen the Summit had it been offered.

Then again, with all the magical power that Kelley supposedly has over the Summit, maybe you're right.

[Herd]

Well, if you want to take Douple's side, you give Kelley a lot of credit for holding that much power over the commissioner of a conference that UND was not a member of. I wonder what Douple's actual bosses think of an outsider holding that kind of sway.

Kelly was trying to influence nearly everyone duing the nickname debacle, including legislators and the sioux booster clubs. He was consistenly working behind the scenes to allow UND to drop the nickname. That is not speculation, but clear fact that was spouted over and over again on this board, many of who were very upset with Kelly over those efforts. What's to say he wasn't working the Summit invitiation (which everyone knew was coming by the way) behind the scenes so he could rid the university of the nickname problem?

In the end, the B1F invitation came before the Summit inviation, so he accepted that and moved on. After being jilted by UND on a Summit invitation, Douple then decided to expose what Kelly was doing beind the scenes. . . . that scenario is not any more difficult to believe than the scenario that Kelly had zero involvement in trying to influence the Summit.

[jdub27]

Kelly was trying to influence nearly everyone duing the nickname debacle, including legislators and the sioux booster clubs. He was consistenly working behind the scenes to allow UND to drop the nickname. That is not speculation, but clear fact that was spouted over and over again on this board, many of who were very upset with Kelly over those efforts. What's to say he wasn't working the Summit invitiation (which everyone knew was coming by the way) behind the scenes so he could rid the university of the nickname problem?

In the end, the B1F invitation came before the Summit inviation, so he accepted that and moved on. After being jilted by UND on a Summit invitation, Douple then decided to expose what Kelly was doing beind the scenes. . . . that scenario is not any more difficult to believe than the scenario that Kelly had zero involvement in trying to influence the Summit.

What benefit did Douple have for being swayed by an outside force? And I know for a fact that there are some overexagerations in your first sentence.

[Herd]

It is quite obvious to anybody not wearing green & yellow or blue & yellow glasses, that Douple has an axe to grind against North Dakota, even if that means damaging his own conference. There is absolutely no excuse for the Summit not pursuing North Dakota for affiliate membership in baseball, when it has obviously been made public that UND had a desire to join.

The Summit League's leadership is inept, there is no way around it. It is not surprising that even NDSU's president has questioned Douple's leadership....................

Agreed, UND should be extended Summit baseball membership yesterday. IMO, UND should be extended full Summit membership, and MVFC member too . . .whether or not they would take it. It would be the right thing to do for the Summit. If I was the commish, I would officially invite UND and NC right away. Neither might accept, but I would do it anyway. And Id do everything possible to open the MVFC door if that would help.

[Teeder11]

Kelly was trying to influence nearly everyone duing the nickname debacle, including legislators and the sioux booster clubs. He was consistenly working behind the scenes to allow UND to drop the nickname. That is not speculation, but clear fact that was spouted over and over again on this board, many of who were very upset with Kelly over those efforts. What's to say he wasn't working the Summit invitiation (which everyone knew was coming by the way) behind the scenes so he could rid the university of the nickname problem?

In the end, the B1F invitation came before the Summit inviation, so he accepted that and moved on. After being jilted by UND on a Summit invitation, Douple then decided to expose what Kelly was doing beind the scenes. . . . that scenario is not any more difficult to believe than the scenario that Kelly had zero involvement in trying to influence the Summit.

You should write fiction. You'd be a bestseller the way you spin this stuff which you clearly know nothing about. Keep going; it's quite entertaining. (:

[homer]

Kelly was trying to influence nearly everyone duing the nickname debacle, including legislators and the sioux booster clubs. He was consistenly working behind the scenes to allow UND to drop the nickname. That is not speculation, but clear fact that was spouted over and over again on this board, many of who were very upset with Kelly over those efforts. What's to say he wasn't working the Summit invitiation (which everyone knew was coming by the way) behind the scenes so he could rid the university of the nickname problem?

In the end, the B1F invitation came before the Summit inviation, so he accepted that and moved on. After being jilted by UND on a Summit invitation, Douple then decided to expose what Kelly was doing beind the scenes. . . . that scenario is not any more difficult to believe than the scenario that Kelly had zero involvement in trying to influence the Summit.

What other favors is Douple doing for non-members? Perhaps if he paid more attention to the teams currently in his conference there wouldn't be a team leaving every year.

[Herd]

What benefit did Douple have for being swayed by an outside force? And I know for a fact that there are some overexagerations in your first sentence.

Being swayed . . . that is a poor choice of words. Kelly would more have been asking for the invite to include specifics that UND would be dropping the nickname, thereby helping to influence the (upcoming vote) to his benefit. Kelly wouldn't have been swaying Douple, just asking for the invitation language to help influence the vote. That is not hard to believe at all if you ask me.

[Herd]

You should write fiction. You'd be a bestseller the way you spin this stuff which you clearly know nothing about. Keep going; it's quite entertaining. (:

So why was this entire board asking for Kelly's head on a platter? He was working very hard to rid the university of the nickname albatross during those days . . . you have a very selective memory it appears.

[homer]

So why was this entire board asking for Kelly's head on a platter? He was working very hard to rid the university of the nickname albatross during those days . . . you have a very selective memory it appears.

The whole situation was full of emotion on both sides. If you look at other nickname issues in the past and current, there is always emotion tied to it. When Dickinson St. changed from the Savages to the Bluehawks people weren't happy. Same at Univ. of Illinois. Read the current stories of the Redskins dilema going on in D.C.

On top of that, all of the teams above are not forced to change their name. UND was facing the NCAA sanctions (which UND admin prior to Kelly agreed to), scheduling troubles and losing recruits because of the name. Changing the name was the right thing to do to save athletics but I don't think many UND fans will say they were happy about it. Any time you are the person in charge during such an emotional issue, people will want you out. You are way off saying it was this entire board wanting Kelly out, but its your story so you can spin how you want.

[darell1976]

Agreed, UND should be extended Summit baseball membership yesterday. IMO, UND should be extended full Summit membership, and MVFC member too . . .whether or not they would take it. It would be the right thing to do for the Summit. If I was the commish, I would officially invite UND and NC right away. Neither might accept, but I would do it anyway. And Id do everything possible to open the MVFC door if that would help.

No way UND gets a MVFC invite unless teams like YSU, Illinois St, or others leave, because the eastern schools were not thrilled when the Yotes joined. Plus if UND got the same deal as USD did back in 2010 UND would be taking it, but now I am positive UND wouldn't go for it. About 3 years to late. Next conference for UND will be an FBS conference.

[SiouxVolley]

So why was this entire board asking for Kelly's head on a platter? He was working very hard to rid the university of the nickname albatross during those days . . . you have a very selective memory it appears.

Don't know so much that it was Kelley as the SBoHE. Wouldn't doubt at all that they wanted the name gone and gave Kelley marching orders to get the job done quietly, and tasked different people to do different tasks. A couple of board members even went to Chicago to meet with Douple. When Douple accused UND of asking to get rid of the name, the SBoHE could very well have told Bresciani to get Douple to STFU by threatening him with his job. Douple did STFU immediately and will no longer answer any questions on the subject. The SBoHE could be why Bresciani has it out for Douple, because the SBoHE is the one that has the issue with Douple. Bresciani admitted he dinged Douple for bringing up the Sioux name after UND was in the Sky, but Bresciani didn't stop Douple from threatening UND before. Really, the SBoHE is in and always has been in Douple's line of command through Bresciani. Just food for thought.

The SBoHE is about as dysfunctional as any group in the country, so it's not that far fetched. How a group like the SBoHE could be so impressed with Shirvani - not even do a background check that shows Shirvani's past lawsuits for thuggish managerial behavior - is almost unbelievable too.

[darell1976]

Don't know so much that it was Kelley as the SBoHE. Wouldn't doubt at all that they wanted the name gone and gave Kelley marching orders to get the job done quietly, and tasked different people to do different tasks. A couple of board members even went to Chicago to meet with Douple. When Douple accused UND of asking to get rid of the name, the SBoHE could very well have told Bresciani to get Douple to STFU by threatening him with his job. Douple did STFU immediately. The SBoHE could be why Bresciani has it out for Douple, because the SBoHE is the one that has the issue with Douple. Bresciani admitted he dinged Douple for bringing up the Sioux name after UND was in the Sky, but Bresciani didn't stop Douple from threatening UND before. Really, the SBoHE is in and always has been in Douple's line of command through Bresciani. Just food for thought.

The SBoHE is about as dysfunctional as any group in the country, so it's not that far fetched.

An remember it wasn't up to Kelley to get rid of the name as he takes orders from the SBoHE. So blaming Kelley for the nickname issue is irrelevant as he has ZERO control over it, same with Kendall baker or even Tom Clifford. But now that issue is six feet under and we can move on. I wouldn't trust Douple especially when Dobson sent in the application to join the Slummit and it just sat there.

[Dagger]

Agreed, UND should be extended Summit baseball membership yesterday. IMO, UND should be extended full Summit membership, and MVFC member too . . .whether or not they would take it. It would be the right thing to do for the Summit. If I was the commish, I would officially invite UND and NC right away. Neither might accept, but I would do it anyway. And Id do everything possible to open the MVFC door if that would help.

Why would UND want to join the Summit and leave the Big Sky? It doesn't make sense to leave a very stable conference to go to one that is sinking fast. Who knows if the Summit is even going to be around in the near future. The viewpoint that UND might want to join the Summit is foolishness.

[darell1976]

Why would UND want to join the Summit and leave the Big Sky? It doesn't make sense to leave a very stable conference to go to one that is sinking fast. Who knows if the Summit is even going to be around in the near future. The viewpoint that UND might want to join the Summit is foolishness.

All that needs to happen is UND joins, more teams leave and you have the GWC 2.0, no thanks. Stay in the Big Sky.

[fightingsioux4life]

IUPUI doesn't play baseball and with Horizon baseball numbers on the edge, they need to add someone who plays baseball. .

I read recently where IPFW is moving basketball back on campus into a gym that seats less than 1,900. I don't think the Horizon will be looking at them, even though they do have baseball.

I know that Western Illinois doesn't fit the "big city" profile, but they do play baseball, they are not too far out of the Horizon footprint and with football firmly planted in the MVFC, that is not an issue

Does the gym have drinking fountains at one end?

[darell1976]

Does the gym have drinking fountains at one end?

Nothing beats Sac St who plays at an elementary school gym.

[GeauxSioux]

Agreed, UND should be extended Summit baseball membership yesterday. IMO, UND should be extended full Summit membership, and MVFC member too . . .whether or not they would take it. It would be the right thing to do for the Summit. If I was the commish, I would officially invite UND and NC right away. Neither might accept, but I would do it anyway. And Id do everything possible to open the MVFC door if that would help.

No can do. UND is not part of the Dakota Big 3. It might upset some cosmic plan.

Besides, the Summit doesn't have Big Sky TV.