SiouxVolley Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 If you don't think SDSU is hurt by recruiting against NDSU, I'm not sure there is anything left to discuss with you. My point is SDSU puts out decent teams in spite of its proximity to UNI and NDSU. That fact went way over your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 But we should use bison fan posters opinion that no one at UND cares about anything other than hockey. Never said that. Somehow UND, which NDSU never schedules in football and plays in a different conference, is badly hurt by NDSU, but SDSU isn't? SDSU always played 3rd fiddle until the Mussman era. SDSU isn't competing for fans with NDSU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Somehow UND, which NDSU never schedules in football and plays in a different conference, is badly hurt by NDSU, but SDSU isn't? SDSU always played 3rd fiddle until the Mussman era. My point is SDSU puts out decent teams in spite of its proximity to UNI and NDSU. That fact went way over your head. I guess I fail to see where you mentioned putting out decent teams. You said SDSU isn't hurt badly, which is grossly untrue. SDSU recruits directly against NDSU and loses nearly every battle when they go head to head. Maybe your own point went over your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Coach Thomas didn't have the facilities to offer recruits that a replacement here would have. We need to build a team to compete with the Big Sky, not FU. I understand the point you're making, but UND is competing with the ac whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. In fact, the truth is, prior to even setting foot on the athletic field with a big sky opponent, the UND staff will need to defeat the ac on the recruiting trail. And I won't even get into public perception. I would also argue that Mussman has tried, and failed, to assemble what he believes is the type of team needed to play Big Sky football(whatever that means). At the expense of the type of football that brought the program to prominence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkster Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Somehow UND, which NDSU never schedules in football and plays in a different conference, is badly hurt by NDSU, but SDSU isn't? SDSU always played 3rd fiddle until the Mussman era. You are right, and this once again proves the folly of not moving up when the XDSU's did. That is the only real difference, and UND football started it's slow decline to the bottom when we opted to stay the course with D2. That single mistake set this program back years and years and who knows if it will ever fully recover. The way NDSU is reeling in the big recruits they will continue to be THE dominant force for the forseeable future. SDSU has been out recruiting us for the last few years also. In this game, timing is everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 SDSU isn't competing for fans with NDSU. Neither is UND...when it comes to the 2 ND schools there is little if any fan base crossover...especially if you were raised in this state. There is no one I know who was a UND FB fan that now supports SU or visa versa over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Neither is UND...when it comes to the 2 ND schools there is little if any fan base crossover...especially if you were raised in this state. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I guess we will because that just doesn't happen for fans of the 2 schools. My kids have grown up all their lives in Fargo and get nauseated by the green and gold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I understand the point you're making, but UND is competing with the ac whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. In fact, the truth is, prior to even setting foot on the athletic field with a big sky opponent, the UND staff will need to defeat the ac on the recruiting trail. And I won't even get into public perception. I would also argue that Mussman has tried, and failed, to assemble what he believes is the type of team needed to play Big Sky football(whatever that means). At the expense of the type of football that brought the program to prominence. NDSU fans always claim they are out recruiting us, especially during the Thomas and Lennon era. They always have a recruiting class that compares with Alabama. . . according to their fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I guess we will because that just doesn't happen for fans of the 2 schools. I agree, but I'm not talking about fans of the schools. I am talking about that portion of the population that is more fickle and chooses the team that is more popular. NDSU is now the "cool" team to follow. I see more NDSU gear running around Fargo and more "casual fans" in the tailgate lots than ever before. These are likely some of the same people that would be in Grand Forks if UND were competing for National Championships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 The two programs compete heavily for corporate dollars. Think of it this way...if the roles were reversed and the ac had hung around in d2, and were playing winona and grand valley while UND was winning at Minnesota, hosted college gameday, and moving on their third straight national title-generally considered the gold standard of fcs football...the sponsors would be lining up to be a part of it as they do now at the ac. As it stands, UND sends players out as dominos delivery drivers with tickets for the handful of season ticket holders that are left. They should be able to complete that run around town with one car and about 10minutes to complete that task next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 NDSU fans always claim they are out recruiting us, especially during the Thomas and Lennon era. They always have a recruiting class that compares with Alabama. Do you think NDSU is not out-recruiting UND? Should we make our way over to the 2014 recruiting thread and read all the handwringing and gnashing of teeth going on about the talent on the UND roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I guess we will because that just doesn't happen for fans of the 2 schools. My kids have grown up all their lives in Fargo and get nauseated by the green and gold! As long as the two don't play in football, there will be crossover. That was the game that divided people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I agree, but I'm not talking about fans of the schools. I am talking about that portion of the population that is more fickle and chooses the team that is more popular. NDSU is now the "cool" team to follow. I see more NDSU gear running around Fargo and more "casual fans" in the tailgate lots than ever before. These are likely some of the same people that would be in Grand Forks if UND were competing for National Championships. I see your point... always nice to be seen with the super model until she is involved in a car wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 You guys keep touting this IPF as the savior of the program. I just don't see it. Absolutely it will be nice to have. But, I am not sure an 18 year old will see it the same way. NDSU seems to have done fine without a dedicated IPF, same with UNI, Montana and Montana St. (Cold weather teams.) The IPF won't save the program; new leadership and better coaching will do that. The IPF will have an impact on recruiting - there's no question about it. Being able to practice within a controlled environment and work out in a new building will definitely be attractive to recruits. Will it exclusively affect recruits? Likely not, but it has the potential to win a few recruiting battles. The IPF is a game changer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 NDSU fans always claim they are out recruiting us, especially during the Thomas and Lennon era. They always have a recruiting class that compares with Alabama. . . according to their fans. True, but we aren't talking about idiot fan opinions here. The eye in the sky don't lie, and you don't get run off the field by anyone worth a damn for two straight years unless you don't have the horses to compete. Muss has been getting killed on the recruiting trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 As long as the two don't play in football, there will be crossover. That was the game that divided people... Not crossover of "true" fans of the 2 schools. I know so many people in Fargo that are SU "fans" now but have no clue who Satter is or Hager or Bentrim. So you mean those fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Not crossover of "true" fans of the school. I know so many people in Fargo that are SU "fans" but have no clue who Satter is or Hager or Bentrim. So you mean those fans? True fan or not, a dollar is a dollar and those people are spending their money at the FargoDome on Saturdays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Mussman has been out-coached. When a new staff is in place we'll determine if he was out-recruited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND-FB-FAN Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Neither is UND...when it comes to the 2 ND schools there is little if any fan base crossover...especially if you were raised in this state. There is no one I know who was a UND FB fan that now supports SU or visa versa over the years. I easily know 100 people who were once UND supporters and now only go to Fargo games. NDSU's success coupled with UND's lack thereof has negatively affected UND's fan base. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Do you think NDSU is not out-recruiting UND? Should we make our way over to the 2014 recruiting thread and read all the handwringing and gnashing of teeth going on about the talent on the UND roster? On message boards, according to NDSU fans, NDSU always won the recruiting battle, even in 1995-2003. The results on the field show differently in those years, in spite of UND having "vastly inferior" athletes. NDSU mocked UND basketball recruits 4 yrs ago. Said they would be pathetic. It always the same story. The difference is that UND hasn't even been at the SDSU level the last few years in football with coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I easily know 100 people who were once UND supporters and now only go to Fargo games. NDSU's success coupled with UND's lack thereof has negatively affected UND's fan base. And they'll switch allegiances to whoever is winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 True fan or not, a dollar is a dollar and those people are spending their money at the FargoDome on Saturdays. . But that is not competing for as was suggested. That's bandwagon and happens at all sporting levels. Remember those Saturdays of the Babich era... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDSIOUXFAN1 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 The IPF won't save the program; new leadership and better coaching will do that. The IPF will have an impact on recruiting - there's no question about it. Being able to practice within a controlled environment and work out in a new building will definitely be attractive to recruits. Will it exclusively affect recruits? Likely not, but it has the potential to win a few recruiting battles. The IPF is a game changer. It will win a few recruits, that is a fact. It will for no other reason than to show the commitment to the program. Of course, it will not be the only reason a recruit comes to play, but it won't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison06 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 On message boards, according to NDSU fans, NDSU always won the recruiting battle, even in 1995-2003. The results on the field show differently in those years, in spite of UND have "vastly inferior" athletes. NDSU mocked UND basketball recruits 4 yrs ago. Said they would be pathetic. It always the same story. The difference is that UND hasn't even been at the SDSU level the last few years in football. I agree, recruits will always be touted as great by their own fan base. But I don't think any reasonable person would look at NDSU's football roster compared to UND's or SDSU and not see a better caliber of athlete on the NDSU roster. It seems pretty obvious to me, but I am admittedly biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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