coaches

[fightingsioux4life]

So, unless we are coaches, we can't criticize other coaches? Last I checked, I paid over $30,000 to get a degree from this institution and donate annually to support all phases of the institution. I feel that allows me to voice my opinions on employees of a public university that is partly state funded. They are paid to perform both on and off the field and right now the defense on the field is failing. I feel I am an educated person on the matter and will continue to put my input in on matters such as this. I don't ask that anyone agree with my opinions, but I do request that my ability to post these opinions is honored.

Amen. Thank you for stating what most of us are thinking.

[bincitysioux]

So, unless we are coaches, we can't criticize other coaches? Last I checked, I paid over $30,000 to get a degree from this institution and donate annually to support all phases of the institution. I feel that allows me to voice my opinions on employees of a public university that is partly state funded. They are paid to perform both on and off the field and right now the defense on the field is failing. I feel I am an educated person on the matter and will continue to put my input in on matters such as this. I don't ask that anyone agree with my opinions, but I do request that my ability to post these opinions is honored.

I don't believe that I censored anybody. Feel free to voice your opinion.

I've been accused of being a "status-quo" guy, and a "duckies and bunnies" guy. I was just offering one reason why I don't blame every little thing that goes wrong on the coaching staff.............

I'm just saying that, personally, since I am a farmer that has no NCAA coaching experience, I don't think I'm in a great position to say that the job that Coach Mussman, Coach Hakstol, or Coach Jones are doing in their occupation is inadequate. I don't think any of those 3 guys would be overly-qualified to tell me how to raise a good crop of soybeans.

Obviously, alot of people here feel otherwise. That is fine. I was just pointing out why I am not one of the posters here that calls for a coach's head everytime we are behind in the score of a sporting event.

As someone with an obvious vested interest in Sioux sports, I encourage you to continue to opine on such matters. I am also a graduate and current supporter of the University. Like you, I don't require agreement with my positions, but I don't think there is a problem with me expressing them, even if they don't fall in line with the majority....................

[Csonked Out]

I don't believe that I censored anybody. Feel free to voice your opinion.

I've been accused of being a "status-quo" guy, and a "duckies and bunnies" guy. I was just offering one reason why I don't blame every little thing that goes wrong on the coaching staff.............

I'm just saying that, personally, since I am a farmer that has no NCAA coaching experience, I don't think I'm in a great position to say that the job that Coach Mussman, Coach Hakstol, or Coach Jones are doing in their occupation is inadequate. I don't think any of those 3 guys would be overly-qualified to tell me how to raise a good crop of soybeans.

Obviously, alot of people here feel otherwise. That is fine. I was just pointing out why I am not one of the posters here that calls for a coach's head everytime we are behind in the score of a sporting event.

As someone with an obvious vested interest in Sioux sports, I encourage you to continue to opine on such matters. I am also a graduate and current supporter of the University. Like you, I don't require agreement with my positions, but I don't think there is a problem with me expressing them, even if they don't fall in line with the majority....................

In my opinion, there is a big big difference between losing one game and giving the opponents average running back the time of their life on a weekly basis as they set records on us. Losing on the field occasionally is fine, embarrassing the University you represent with horrendous defense all season is quite another.

[CMSioux]

I think there are a fair number of "vintage" alumni reading and posting on this site. I am willing to count myself among them them. I will never write a post demanding a coach be fired for several reasons:

- There are professionals on staff at UND with much more experience and insight than I have whose job it it is manage the coaching staffs

- Players play, coaches coach

- It's a GAME, the player are STUDENT ATHLETES, it's supposed to be fun and enjoyable, it's not life and death, they are at UND to get an education and become productive citizens, the sport they are playing is a small part of that.

- When winning becomes the most important result of an athletic department ethics and integrity take a back seat (I don't think I need to name an example).

- College sports is a cycle, with few exceptions teams can't always be at the top, maintaining a program that has pride and tradition isn't a cycle.

- Posting insults and slander on a public forum about the coaching staff of my Alma Mater/ a school I care about just doesn't seem to make sense.

You can post what you want, it's your right, just can't figure out what you are trying to accomplish when supporters go in this direction?

[darell1976]

I think there are a fair number of "vintage" alumni reading and posting on this site. I am willing to count myself among them them. I will never write a post demanding a coach be fired for several reasons:

- There are professionals on staff at UND with much more experience and insight than I have whose job it it is manage the coaching staffs

- Players play, coaches coach

- It's a GAME, the player are STUDENT ATHLETES, it's supposed to be fun and enjoyable, it's not life and death, they are at UND to get an education and become productive citizens, the sport they are playing is a small part of that.

- When winning becomes the most important result of an athletic department ethics and integrity take a back seat (I don't think I need to name an example).

- College sports is a cycle, with few exceptions teams can't always be at the top, maintaining a program that has pride and tradition isn't a cycle.

- Posting insults and slander on a public forum about the coaching staff of my Alma Mater/ a school I care about just doesn't seem to make sense.

You can post what you want, it's your right, just can't figure out what you are trying to accomplish when supporters go in this direction?

I agree it should be fun like high school, Jr. High, even down to Pop Warner leagues, but at college when some of these players are getting bribes (see SMU) and million dollar bets in Vegas on college games fun is out the window. The only thing to make this worse would be to actually pay the players like the pros. I think if your product is horrible then change it. I hate to compare this team to the RT days of the 80's where we would barely beat a Morningside or St. Cloud State team. Patience was the word every year from 1985-1992 when UND actually looked competitive but now we cannot wait 8 years until we are competiting with the Big Sky top dogs (EWU, MSU). The patience with fans (including myself) is not there. I can be patient during transition when playoffs are not in the picture but now its playoffs every year on the line. You need the staff and players to go out and win a game not get smoked by over 40 points. We are not Idaho State or Northern Colorado. We were top dogs of DII in the 2000's, we need to get back into that mindset, that we are not a bad football team. We beat 2 FCS teams in 2006 and 2007 as a DII team, we should be able to beat these teams as a DI team. So whether its changing coaches at the top level (HC,OC,DC) or positional coaches something needs to be done and done quick. As this team falls and falls so does the recruits. Who wants to play for a team at the bottom?

[UNDColorado]

I think there are a fair number of "vintage" alumni reading and posting on this site. I am willing to count myself among them them. I will never write a post demanding a coach be fired for several reasons:

- There are professionals on staff at UND with much more experience and insight than I have whose job it it is manage the coaching staffs

- Players play, coaches coach

- It's a GAME, the player are STUDENT ATHLETES, it's supposed to be fun and enjoyable, it's not life and death, they are at UND to get an education and become productive citizens, the sport they are playing is a small part of that.

- When winning becomes the most important result of an athletic department ethics and integrity take a back seat (I don't think I need to name an example).

- College sports is a cycle, with few exceptions teams can't always be at the top, maintaining a program that has pride and tradition isn't a cycle.

- Posting insults and slander on a public forum about the coaching staff of my Alma Mater/ a school I care about just doesn't seem to make sense.

You can post what you want, it's your right, just can't figure out what you are trying to accomplish when supporters go in this direction?

Well said CM.

I was very optimistic going into the season because that is just the way I am, but I keep wondering what some of those who are calling for heads were expecting going into our first year in the Big Sky? A winning record was very attainable but if they were hoping for a league championship then they are just not grounded in reality.

The defense was very poor at times but we did not have the necessary depth to compete at the top of this level.

Things will get better but it won't happen over night. Keep the faith people!

[darell1976]

Well said CM.

I was very optimistic going into the season because that is just the way I am, but I keep wondering what some of those who are calling for heads were expecting going into our first year in the Big Sky? A winning record was very attainable but if they were hoping for a league championship then they are just not grounded in reality.

The defense was very poor at times but we did not have the necessary depth to compete at the top of this level.

Things will get better but it won't happen over night. Keep the faith people!

I would give Mussman's first year of the BSC a learning tool. You weren't used to the tough schedule (one of the toughest in the nation), poor defense. So 5-6 isn't ideal but first year in its not horrid. Now next year you cannot use the transition excuse, that is over, and you know what competition to expect (11 DI teams no SDSoM's). UND will be picked towards the bottom especially with our freshmen QB's. But with 7 that's right 7 home games (some teams would be damn lucky just to get 6) UND should be a playoff contender this year. I think expectations will be extremely high this coming season and Mussman and company will have to show the fans what changes were made from the loss to UNC up to gametime with Valpo.

[UNDvince97-01]

Here's my simpleton thoughts on this:

Objectivity is great. Second-guess and criticize coaches and players all you want. We can all choose to agree or disagree on lots of that stuff. That's part of the reason why we are all here.

However if you feel the need to call for another person's job and livelihood, please have the decency to put your name behind it. Myself and many others would totally respect that, even if it was my job they were calling for. Right or wrong, that's just how I see it.

Rip away.

[Teeder11]

Here's my simpleton thoughts on this:

Objectivity is great. Second-guess and criticize coaches and players all you want. We can all choose to agree or disagree on lots of that stuff. That's part of the reason why we are all here.

However if you feel the need to call for another person's job and livelihood, please have the decency to put your name behind it. Myself and many others would totally respect that, even if it was my job they were calling for. Right or wrong, that's just how I see it.

Rip away.

Totally agreed. This real life, not fantasy sports. Real people and entire families are affected and sometimes hurt. Just because MLB teams sack their managers with reckless abandon doesn't mean those values, or lack there of, need to be applied to young men and women whose sole primary objective should be on going to class, completing their assignments and attaining a degree. I like a winner as much as the next guy but let's not lose sight of the importance of grooming young men and women to be good productive citizens for society. The wins and recruits will come. Patience, young grasshoppers.

[darell1976]

Totally agreed. This real life, not fantasy sports. Real people and entire families are affected and sometimes hurt. Just because MLB teams sack their managers with reckless abandon doesn't mean those values, or lack there of, need to be applied to young men and women whose sole primary objective should be on going to class, completing their assignments and attaining a degree. I like a winner as much as the next guy but let's not lose sight of the importance of grooming young men and women to be good productive citizens for society. The wins and recruits will come. Patience, young grasshoppers.

Unlike the FU football team.

[MoSiouxFan]

Totally agreed. This real life, not fantasy sports. Real people and entire families are affected and sometimes hurt. Just because MLB teams sack their managers with reckless abandon doesn't mean those values, or lack there of, need to be applied to young men and women whose sole primary objective should be on going to class, completing their assignments and attaining a degree. I like a winner as much as the next guy but let's not lose sight of the importance of grooming young men and women to be good productive citizens for society. The wins and recruits will come. Patience, young grasshoppers.

Good perspective. I don't see anything wrong with discussing coaching strategies, coaching decisions, etc., when its done as constructive criticism. And there's no doubt that we also have the right to opine that a coach ought to be fired. However, having the right to do something doesn't automatically mean that it's right to do. I think we all have our opinions as to which coaches ought to be coaching at our level and which coaches may ultimately need to be replaced for not getting the job done after a reasonable period of time. However, nothing is gained by calling for a coach to be fired on this forum, especially in light of the fact that, as has been pointed out, players and future recruits undoubtedly read this forum regularly. Future recruits especially are going to be influenced by what's written on this forum.

[Shawn-O]

I just cannot buy into the premise that what is written here has any impact on recruiting whatsoever.

[WeAreNorthDakota]

There may not be a huge impact on recruiting but there's no doubt that our current players and potential recruits read forums like this. Does anyone remember last fall when the kid who switched to UW at the last minute posted an apology/explanation/thank you or whatever you want to call it on this board? I doubt very much that that was his first visit to the board. He'd likely been reading it since he first committed or possibly earlier. Is it a major factor? No because every school has a message board and every message board has its share of bad apples. But let's not pretend that the things we post here aren't seen by recruits and current student athletes.

[fightingsioux4life]

Based on the ducky and bunny BS I am reading on here, we should just join the non-scholarship Pioneer League for football. Then we won't have to worry about getting to the playoffs and winning national titles anymore. Maybe we'll develop a kick-butt rivalry wtih Valparaiso. THAT will get the Alerus Center rocking (not).

If this was men's hockey, the tone of the conversation would be much, much different. Flame away, but those are the facts.

[homer]

All of our coaches are going to be back next season unless they choose to move on. All of our coaches (strength, position, coordinators, and head) know they need to improve next season. This isn't the Great West anymore.

Regarding recruits- does it matter if a coach is let go or moves on to another college? The coaching staffs in Fargo, Brookings, Vermillion and Ceder Falls are not going to be the same next season. There are some good coaches at those schools who will have other opportuties. They are also fanbases who have high expections of their programs and the onfield performance. As a recruit, is that a big deal? I would rather have that than an who gives a !@#$ fanbase.

Now that we are in an actual conference, fans at other schools are nervous. Read the threads on other boards by fans trying to knock UND, our players, coaches, facilities, conference, etc. You didn't see that 2, 3 or 4 years ago. I agree with the post above, potential recruits do read these boards and that is why we are seeing more "visitors" to our board and threads about UND on other boards. You also see a lot of posters already making excuses or recruits who aren't even lost yet.

[homer]

Based on the ducky and bunny BS I am reading on here, we should just join the non-scholarship Pioneer League for football. Then we won't have to worry about getting to the playoffs and winning national titles anymore. Maybe we'll develop a kick-butt rivalry wtih Valparaiso. THAT will get the Alerus Center rocking (not).

If this was men's hockey, the tone of the conversation would be much, much different. Flame away, but those are the facts.

What do you want the hear? If any of the coaches were not going to be back next year it would have happened already. If you have a problem with that posting under a false name on a message board is not going to change anything. Call the AD and voice your concern with him.

[fightingsioux4life]

What do you want the hear? If any of the coaches were not going to be back next year it would have happened already. If you have a problem with that posting under a false name on a message board is not going to change anything. Call the AD and voice your concern with him.

What I want to hear is higher expectations for our football program. People have been dialing down their hopes and expectations for the program for several years now. There are some serious questions concerning the week to week competitiveness of the program. When this team suffers a 40 point drubbing at Montana State and didn't look competitive at all, it is going to bother people. Losing is part of the process of building the program; not being competitive at all in games is a red flag.

As I have said before, I think Mussman should get a couple of more years to recruit as a Big Sky program. It could make all the difference. But after that, is everyone on here going to stick with the same talking points about "patience", "transition", ect? That is what concerns me. If there is lack of expectations with the fan base and the boosters, there will be less urgency within the athletic department to change things. We moved up in large part for football. If we sink back to the level of the mid-1980's, it will be all for naught.

And if you don't like my posts, just ignore them. Don't run around here acting like the "conscience of SS.com".

[Csonked Out]

What do you want the hear? If any of the coaches were not going to be back next year it would have happened already. If you have a problem with that posting under a false name on a message board is not going to change anything. Call the AD and voice your concern with him.

Give me a break, there was a Fire Hak thread in hockey for how long and no one got their underwear in a knot like they are now. This is a part of the job of coaching and every coach knows that turnover is high if the performance is subpar.I don't know why every one is stuck on holding football to a different level than hockey as far as these discussions go, but how about we raise expectations for the program and expect excellence, rather than preaching to every to be nice online.

[homer]

I know there are people on here who disagree about whether certain coaches should be back but I really don't recall a post from anyone lowering the expectations of the program.

[homer]

Give me a break, there was a Fire Hak thread in hockey for how long and no one got their underwear in a knot like they are now. This is a part of the job of coaching and every coach knows that turnover is high if the performance is subpar.I don't know why every one is stuck on holding football to a different level than hockey as far as these discussions go, but how about we raise expectations for the program and expect excellence, rather than preaching to every to be nice online.

If the coaches weren't going to be brought back, that decision would have been made already. Its not holding a program to a different standard, its reality.

[darell1976]

Has any recruits played since we joined the Big Sky Conference? I am just wondering if the level of talent we have (prior to the 2012 recruits) were done with some roadblocks. Examples: Fighting Sioux nickname (Dale Lennon said he saw recruits choose not to go to UND due to the nickname controversy), conference affiliation (who wants to join a team in the Great West?), and coaching experience (Muss and co have only been together since 08 and how has he done in transition). So with those factors maybe UND lost out on some good players but now with the nickname issue put to rest, conference affiliation at the highest level in the FCS maybe Mussman can get better talent and we will see them in the next few years. The Big Sky recruits either played as a true freshman or were redshirted. Lets see what we do in 2013 with these players and see where we are headed going into 2014. Lets put 2012 as a mulligan and try again.

[Oxbow6]

I know there are people on here who disagree about whether certain coaches should be back but I really don't recall a post from anyone lowering the expectations of the program.

I think those who think Muss is the guy for the long haul are optomistic based on the body of work to date...28-26 in 5 years. Those who don't think he is the guy, like myself, are coming to the realization that the status quo is more likely than the playoffs over the next 2 years of his contract. In some way shape or form, we all have expectations regardless of what Muss camp you're in...some expectations higher than others.

[UNDvince97-01]

I'm wondering how I'm lowering expectations by saying that I think people should man-up and be accountable for calling for people's jobs and livelihoods in such a cavalier manner?

I wish hockey fans would do the same for Hakstol if that makes a difference for some reason.

I don't think any of us would like it if faceless, anonymous people on a message board forum were calling for them to be fired at their respective jobs.

Like I said, by all means ask for someone to be fired. Just put your name on it. No problem with that at all.

[fightingsioux4life]

I'm wondering how I'm lowering expectations by saying that I think people should man-up and be accountable for calling for people's jobs and livelihoods in such a cavalier manner?

I wish hockey fans would do the same for Hakstol if that makes a difference for some reason.

I don't think any of us would like it if faceless, anonymous people on a message board forum were calling for them to be fired at their respective jobs.

Like I said, by all means ask for someone to be fired. Just put your name on it. No problem with that at all.

Questionning whether a particular individual is the long-term solution is not "calling for people's jobs and livelihoods in.....a cavalier manner". It is looking out for the long-term health and vitality of the program. No matter what we all do for a living, we are always under some kind of informal evaluation process. I don't mean the formal evals we get on a 6 and/or 12 month basis, but the day-to-day, week-to-week type of evaluation as we do our jobs.

For Mussman and his staff, that means people watching and/or listening to games, tracking the progress of recruits and how they are producing and/or not producing, seeing how the team responds to adversity and setbacks, how competitive the team is against certain programs in certain situations and so on. While this is not the NFL, these coaches are paid professionals and should be able to handle criticism that inevitably comes from the fans, the media, the boosters, ect. They know this goes with the territory of being a coach at the college level and I don't think they take it personally. Why some people on here take it personally, I don't know. By the way, comparing our jobs to college coaches is pure apples and oranges.

The point some people on here don't get is that what happens now will affect what happens with the program in the future. There is a big picture that not everyone is seeing. If we dig a huge hole for the program and it has to be rebuilt piece by piece, get ready for a repeat of the late 80's to early 90's as Roger Thomas and his staff struggled to build a contender with a national power just 80 miles away. It wasn't fun and I don't want to relive it if it can be helped. And there are some serious, fair questions as to whether this program is in the right hands. I think it will take a couple of more years to find out. But I must say I have some nagging doubts as to whether this staff will get it done.

And if you don't think this is the proper forum to talk about this, go talk to the mods and get it banned from here. Otherwise, stop scolding and preaching to the rest of us.

[Teeder11]

I'm wondering how I'm lowering expectations by saying that I think people should man-up and be accountable for calling for people's jobs and livelihoods in such a cavalier manner?

I wish hockey fans would do the same for Hakstol if that makes a difference for some reason.

I don't think any of us would like it if faceless, anonymous people on a message board forum were calling for them to be fired at their respective jobs.

Like I said, by all means ask for someone to be fired. Just put your name on it. No problem with that at all.

It would give it that extra stamp of legitimacy, wouldn't it? I know there's got to be a fair share on here who are managers, leaders, business owners, etc., so were not all foreign to the concept of having that hard talk with someone that leads to their dismissal. But I get the sense that some of our brethren take solice in the reality they don't have to do that hard thing and that someone else will have to do the dirty work for them, all based on the gamble that the "next coach" will do better. There's a lot of armchair "Steinbrenners" out there who talk a big game on their keyboards but who I am sure would act a bit more judiciously if they were ever truly given the keys to the front office.