coaches

[jodcon]

Don't want to join the coaching debate, but as I said earlier in another thread we have to remind ourselves that the transition won't truly be over until the 2015 season starts for every sport except hockey.

2012 is the first true recruiting class where the recruits can play their full college career with the possibility of playoffs and without the possibilities of NCAA sanctions hanging over them from the nickname issue, the last 3 years nobody knows how many kids UND has missed out on because they didn't want to play without the possibility of a brass ring at the end or fearful of the NCAA hammer. This years class knew where they stood, and so will the classes from now on, and the incoming talent should keep getting better and better because of it.

Now I'm NOT saying that is a crutch that the coaches should be able to lean on exclusively as an explanation for poor play, but it has to factor into the big picture.

As far as the football team goes, they finished about where I thought they would, they were better than expected on offense and worse than expected on defense. I don't know how good of a coach Mussman is or isn't, but with one year in the BSC under their belts and 6 home games on the schedule next year, I think expectations will be fairly high and if their record doesn't reflect that he may be in trouble.

[Matt]

There's no more negativity here than any other fan board. Read through this season's threads at panther nation and someone want to convince me that a recruit wants to go there cuz there's less negativity there than ss.com?

I call BS.

[gfhockey]

here here Matt!

[BigGame]

here here Matt!

Says the most negative poster on the message board!

[fightingsioux4life]

Says the most negative poster on the message board!

The point is, it is very unlikely that top recruits won't choose a certain school because of the negativity of the fan base on message boards. But you are right, gfhockey is one of the most negative posters here.

[geaux_sioux]

The point is, it is very unlikely that top recruits won't choose a certain school because of the negativity of the fan base on message boards. But you are right, gfhockey is one of the most drunk posters here.

Good point

[Csonked Out]

No my point is about the reality of the situation. It really doesn't matter to me what folks like yourself or others think. The players play. For the most part, the team that is the deepest, and has the overall bigger, stronger faster and more talented athletes will have the edge. Watching our football team last fall, much of the time we weren't that team. Except for the Mines game, I think both our O line and D line were physically outmanned most of the time, which was a surprise. I saw BSC teams with running backs that had the combination of size, speed and elusiveness that UND fans dream about having. Our passing game is at the top level of the BSC and possibly FCS, but we saw that wasn't enough.

My point is we are part way to where we need to be and it's going to get better. I saw this past year as a step. We will get better. In reading your previous posts during the football season, you always seem to fall back on the teams struggles as being a simple case of Mussman not being able to coach 'em up or realize things that you do. If only football were that simple.

It was at the top. I'm not so sure with a freshman quarterback, no matter what the skill is, will probably not be as successful as this year. My point is that there were many games this year when our defense wasn't even competitive. At the beginning of the year it was that our defensive line was the best and deepest in years with loads of experience, but now I am seeing it was a lack of talent and experience and not the coaches fault? The bottom line is that the 3-4 isn't a good defensive scheme for this level of competition unless the d-line is top of the country talent. Our linebackers aren't good enough playmakers or tacklers, and it is clearly evident that the defensive line is significantly weaker and slower on the feet than opposing teams offensive lines. I don't think this is Mussman's fault at all, in fact I think he is deserving of more time, I am saying that the defensive coaches should be ashamed of them selves for the product that was on the field this season. The lack of fundamentals, execution, and coaching scheme changes aren't deserving of another year unless there are some serious changes.

Us "Armchair Coaches" do know what we are talking about believe it or not, and to defend the garbage that was giving to us and thinking it deserves more time is a complete joke. I won't apologize for anything less than excellence, and I know darn well if this were hockey that no one else here would be either.

Merry Christmas everyone, hope it is most joyous for all on siouxsports.com

[geaux_sioux]

At the and it is clearly evident that the defensive line is significantly slower on the feet than opposing teams offensive lines.

I don't disagree that the defense was god awful this year but that comment was blindly stupid to say the least.

[Csonked Out]

I don't disagree that the defense was god awful this year but that comment was blindly stupid to say the least.

As were many of the ones you have made tonight defending this travesty sir, but rather than toss insults which isn't productive, let us all hear your rational for what when wrong on the defensive front 7 and the run game. Do you place blame on the linebacking cores lack of playmakers, the defensive line, or the 3-4 compared to the more successful 4-3?

[JohnboyND7]

I have read on a few different places that it is very hard for FCS teams to run the 3-4 effectively anymore. Don't know if there is any merit to the statement or not.

[geaux_sioux]

As were many of the ones you have made tonight defending this travesty sir, but rather than toss insults which isn't productive, let us all hear your rational for what when wrong on the defensive front 7 and the run game. Do you place blame on the linebacking cores lack of playmakers, the defensive line, or the 3-4 compared to the more successful 4-3?

Make no mistake, never once did I defend the level of play by the team and the defense in particular. Now as you start to dislodge your foot from your mouth I'll explain what I saw that was wrong with the defense this year. Blame the entire defense as a unit. The Dline didn't eat up blockers in the run game like they're supposed to consistently, and when they did the LBs didn't make the plays they should have. The LB's didn't make plays at all this year and that includes a hobbled Goodman. The secondary is still a messy ball of class that will improve again next year but still sucked. What was more alarming than the level of play was the obvious lack of an alpha male on defense. Hopefully next year Goodman can become a guy like Grant Olson who will accept nothing less than perfect and will get in someones face or put a boot up their ass without hesitation if they aren't up to snuff. The defense wasn't nasty. Dan Hendrickson wasn't strutting around after knocking someone unconscious on a kickoff. He was the identity of the defense and they fed off of his swagger and his grit. Someone needs to step up in that regard and it isn't a coach. My main critique of the defensive coaches was why didn't they blitz as much as normal? They weren't bringing the same kind of pressure that we're used to with the 3-4 we run. Was that a result of the offenses we faced this year and their 5 WR sets? I don't know, the coaches are the ones watching the film and they know what they're doing. It obviously didn't work this year for a variety of reasons and you can bet your ass they will make adjustments (like cutting players with bad attitudes) because two years like this past one in a row and then we've got a problem. The main problem with the defense was depth. There weren't enough studs even with a full compliment of players and they were not even close to being able to handle the injury situation which was ridiculous to say the least this year. Next year I guarantee major improvements on defense to the tune of a top 25 defense nationally. If not feel free to call me a moron.

As for the 3-4, it will be dominant again when we get the horses. They're coming, some are already here. Mike Edwards will be the cornerstone of the defensive revival at UND.

[Matt]

Make no mistake, never once did I defend the level of play by the team and the defense in particular. Now as you start to dislodge your foot from your mouth I'll explain what I saw that was wrong with the defense this year. Blame the entire defense as a unit. The Dline didn't eat up blockers in the run game like they're supposed to consistently, and when they did the LBs didn't make the plays they should have. The LB's didn't make plays at all this year and that includes a hobbled Goodman. The secondary is still a messy ball of class that will improve again next year but still sucked. What was more alarming than the level of play was the obvious lack of an alpha male on defense. Hopefully next year Goodman can become a guy like Grant Olson who will accept nothing less than perfect and will get in someones face or put a boot up their ass without hesitation if they aren't up to snuff. The defense wasn't nasty. Dan Hendrickson wasn't strutting around after knocking someone unconscious on a kickoff. He was the identity of the defense and they fed off of his swagger and his grit. Someone needs to step up in that regard and it isn't a coach. My main critique of the defensive coaches was why didn't they blitz as much as normal? They weren't bringing the same kind of pressure that we're used to with the 3-4 we run. Was that a result of the offenses we faced this year and their 5 WR sets? I don't know, the coaches are the ones watching the film and they know what they're doing. It obviously didn't work this year for a variety of reasons and you can bet your ass they will make adjustments (like cutting players with bad attitudes) because two years like this past one in a row and then we've got a problem. The main problem with the defense was depth. There weren't enough studs even with a full compliment of players and they were not even close to being able to handle the injury situation which was ridiculous to say the least this year. Next year I guarantee major improvements on defense to the tune of a top 25 defense nationally. If not feel free to call me a moron.

As for the 3-4, it will be dominant again when we get the horses. They're coming, some are already here. Mike Edwards will be the cornerstone of the defensive revival at UND.

That's a bold statement considering the entire conference had only 1 team in the top 25 of total defense (Montana State), and 0 in scoring defense.

But, 'tis the season of perpetual hope...might as well keep on selling it.

[UND-FB-FAN]

The 3-4 is a scheme, just like the 4-3. Each scheme provides advantages and disadvantages, but neither one is better than the other; production is decided by player execution and pre-snap alignment. If the coaches are providing proper pre-snap alignment, that is putting the players in the right position to make plays, then the only thing left is for the players to execute.

During the transition, UND still found a way to put top FCS defenses on the field, so I would have to conclude that the coaches and defensive schemes are not the issue, but rather the players' execution is. For the defense to improve, the players and their ability to make plays have to improve, not the defensive scheme. After all, coaching is not about 'picking the better scheme,' but rather to put players in the best position to succeed within a particular system. That’s the case with the 3-4 and 4-3; they are just schemes and alignments that require the players to execute within them. Alabama under Nick Saban has continued to use the 3-4 system and they consistently produce the top FBS defense. Why may you ask? Because the players are of NFL quality and MAKE PLAYS.

IF the talent of the defense increases, the 3-4 will be revealed to not be the problem and UND's defense will produce.

[Csonked Out]

Make no mistake, never once did I defend the level of play by the team and the defense in particular. Now as you start to dislodge your foot from your mouth I'll explain what I saw that was wrong with the defense this year. Blame the entire defense as a unit. The Dline didn't eat up blockers in the run game like they're supposed to consistently, and when they did the LBs didn't make the plays they should have. The LB's didn't make plays at all this year and that includes a hobbled Goodman. The secondary is still a messy ball of class that will improve again next year but still sucked. What was more alarming than the level of play was the obvious lack of an alpha male on defense. Hopefully next year Goodman can become a guy like Grant Olson who will accept nothing less than perfect and will get in someones face or put a boot up their ass without hesitation if they aren't up to snuff. The defense wasn't nasty. Dan Hendrickson wasn't strutting around after knocking someone unconscious on a kickoff. He was the identity of the defense and they fed off of his swagger and his grit. Someone needs to step up in that regard and it isn't a coach. My main critique of the defensive coaches was why didn't they blitz as much as normal? They weren't bringing the same kind of pressure that we're used to with the 3-4 we run. Was that a result of the offenses we faced this year and their 5 WR sets? I don't know, the coaches are the ones watching the film and they know what they're doing. It obviously didn't work this year for a variety of reasons and you can bet your ass they will make adjustments (like cutting players with bad attitudes) because two years like this past one in a row and then we've got a problem. The main problem with the defense was depth. There weren't enough studs even with a full compliment of players and they were not even close to being able to handle the injury situation which was ridiculous to say the least this year. Next year I guarantee major improvements on defense to the tune of a top 25 defense nationally. If not feel free to call me a moron.

As for the 3-4, it will be dominant again when we get the horses. They're coming, some are already here. Mike Edwards will be the cornerstone of the defensive revival at UND.

You're must very hopefully on the talent level coming through. In order to have a successful 3-4 defense to work properly we need a nose tackle who can effectively cover the A- Gap and 2 inside linebackers who can make plays. I do agree that Goodman may be a good one next year when healthy, but that's it, and you don't run a 3-4 defense with only 1 good linebacker ''I think good coaches will coach with the personnel they have, and if you only have one (good) linebacker, you’re not going to play a 3–4.'' (Quote by Hank Bullough, architecht for the 3-4 defense).

Now, if you think that we have a nose tackle that is able to improve the level as much as needed to control the A-Gap, another linebacker who is able to step up and provide that 2nd ILB that is necessary and Goodman to step up as well, then I could see a big turn around, but unless this is with 2 JUCO's then I don't think we have the talent that is ready yet in the stables. I respect that you may disagree with me there and hope I am wrong.

I find it funny that you think I am "putting my foot in my mouth" about this because I still blame the defensive line for many of the run game problems. The primary goal is for them to eat up the offensive line so the linebackers can make the tackles, and I am sorry, but they got embarrassed at that this year. They did a poor job of gap control and when they did control the gap they didn't do a good enough job of getting of their block to make the tackle. When you combine that with a line-backing core who quite frankly was overwhelmed by everything and a corner-back group who as just simply not talented enough, then you have what we saw last year.

We just simply put, don't have the talent to run a 3-4 with the level of offenses that the BSC is producing and I think that it is crazy to think that is going to change overnight without any coaching changes. The defense may have actually gotten worse week by week last year instead of better....

[UND-FB-FAN]

We just simply put, don't have the talent to run a 3-4 with the level of offenses that the BSC is producing and I think that it is crazy to think that is going to change overnight without any coaching changes. The defense may have actually gotten worse week by week last year instead of better....

We shouldn’t use the 3-4 because we lack 3-4 talent and the level of offenses the BSC is producing? Are you suggesting that the 3-4 is inferior to the 4-3, because that is simply incorrect. Nevertheless, I do agree that the 4-3 is a better defense if the particular team in question has limited capable linebackers, but I do not see that as the case for UND. UND will have all of their linebackers returning, so it would be naive and ignorant to believe none of them will improve. Also, Mike Edwards is a prototypical nose guard for the 3-4 system. With that said, the 3-4 system is not the problem and it will be just fine if the talent, which has been recruited just for the 3-4, improves next season.

As far as the defense getting worse as the season progressed, I think that is a leadership issue which is largely attributable to the coaches. This is an issue and is one of the primary reasons I have doubts regarding Coach Mussman's capability and future.

[geaux_sioux]

You're must very hopefully on the talent level coming through. In order to have a successful 3-4 defense to work properly we need a nose tackle who can effectively cover the A- Gap and 2 inside linebackers who can make plays. I do agree that Goodman may be a good one next year when healthy, but that's it, and you don't run a 3-4 defense with only 1 good linebacker ''I think good coaches will coach with the personnel they have, and if you only have one (good) linebacker, you’re not going to play a 3–4.'' (Quote by Hank Bullough, architecht for the 3-4 defense).

Now, if you think that we have a nose tackle that is able to improve the level as much as needed to control the A-Gap, another linebacker who is able to step up and provide that 2nd ILB that is necessary and Goodman to step up as well, then I could see a big turn around, but unless this is with 2 JUCO's then I don't think we have the talent that is ready yet in the stables. I respect that you may disagree with me there and hope I am wrong.

I find it funny that you think I am "putting my foot in my mouth" about this because I still blame the defensive line for many of the run game problems. The primary goal is for them to eat up the offensive line so the linebackers can make the tackles, and I am sorry, but they got embarrassed at that this year. They did a poor job of gap control and when they did control the gap they didn't do a good enough job of getting of their block to make the tackle. When you combine that with a line-backing core who quite frankly was overwhelmed by everything and a corner-back group who as just simply not talented enough, then you have what we saw last year.

We just simply put, don't have the talent to run a 3-4 with the level of offenses that the BSC is producing and I think that it is crazy to think that is going to change overnight without any coaching changes. The defense may have actually gotten worse week by week last year instead of better....

Your foot was in your mouth because you claimed that I had been defending how the d played last year which was not the case.

Mike Edwards was the best nt in fall camp by far, he will start day one next year if he doesn't digress.

Im hopful that Will Rattelle or even Labatt will develop into the other inside lb with Goodman.

The dline just plain sucked last year. A few plays here and there were nice but they were manhandled at times and didn't make enough plays or eat enough blocks with consistency.

There will be some fr starting next year and they will be ready and will be better than the starters last year.

[Matt]

Your foot was in your mouth because you claimed that I had been defending how the d played last year which was not the case.

Mike Edwards was the best nt in fall camp by far, he will start day one next year if he doesn't digress.

Im hopful that Will Rattelle or even Labatt will develop into the other inside lb with Goodman.

The dline just plain sucked last year. A few plays here and there were nice but they were manhandled at times and didn't make enough plays or eat enough blocks with consistency.

There will be some fr starting next year and they will be ready and will be better than the starters last year.

I'm not gonna argue this point. However, I think it should be acknowledged that this isn't a good thing.

What does it mean for a freshmen to be "ready" anyway? What is a reasonable expectation for production? Keep in mind, not a single freshmen made the all-conference 1st team. Or 2nd team. You have to look down the HM list to see some younger contributors.

Freshmen playing next year should reap some benefits in 2015, but for the 2013 season that usually means significant growing pains. Fans need to accept that.

[geaux_sioux]

I'm not gonna argue this point. However, I think it should be acknowledged that this isn't a good thing.

What does it mean for a freshmen to be "ready" anyway? What is a reasonable expectation for production? Keep in mind, not a single freshmen made the all-conference 1st team. Or 2nd team. You have to look down the HM list to see some younger contributors.

Freshmen playing next year should reap some benefits in 2015, but for the 2013 season that usually means significant growing pains. Fans need to accept that.

I'm not real big on all conference teams since its a lot about a resume and a lot of people don't like to nominate freshman, kinda like the heisman with only one fr winner and one fr runner up in history.

I actually think it is a good thing for fr to start. This new crop will have a chip on their shoulder to fix things at und. I look at a guy like Edwards and he was by far the best nt in camp last year and manhandled senior olinemen with ease. Young guys playing will also light a fire under the asses of those underachieving seniors and juniors and make them better by the competition. No ones job is safe and everyone including the coaches will improve because of it.

There will be growing pains with some players, but as long as they learn from them and play fast they will be an upgrade.

I fully expect to see some shirts pulled next fall.

[UNDColorado]

I'm not real big on all conference teams since its a lot about a resume and a lot of people don't like to nominate freshman, kinda like the heisman with only one fr winner and one fr runner up in history.

I actually think it is a good thing for fr to start. This new crop will have a chip on their shoulder to fix things at und. I look at a guy like Edwards and he was by far the best nt in camp last year and manhandled senior olinemen with ease. Young guys playing will also light a fire under the asses of those underachieving seniors and juniors and make them better by the competition. No ones job is safe and everyone including the coaches will improve because of it.

There will be growing pains with some players, but as long as they learn from them and play fast they will be an upgrade.

I fully expect to see some shirts pulled next fall.

This last year in both FCS and FBS I noticed quite a few freshmen and RFR in starting roles. I do not have a problem with starting freshmen, especially RFR as long as they are the better guy because that elevates the play of the older guys who could otherwise become lazy and content.

[Oxbow6]

The issue IMO has to do more with schemes, play calling and placement of players than talent at UND...especially on D. If you are constantly going to play a 2 deep safety look but also have your corners 10-12 yards off the WRs all game, you want defend the pass or the run outside the tackles. Hence giving up 500+ yards a game.

[geaux_sioux]

The issue IMO has to do more with schemes, play calling and placement of players than talent at UND...especially on D. If you are constantly going to play a 2 deep safety look but also have your corners 10-12 yards off the WRs all game, you want defend the pass or the run outside the tackles. Hence giving up 500+ yards a game.

Every scheme is successful with the right guys. It's not like football is so different all of a sudden and the 3-4 only works in d2. It's successful in all levels of football. And yes we know you aren't a fan of und's coaches, I'm not sure that will ever change. What will change is the product on the field will be more talented next year and won't get abused by teams like msu and ewu. I think the best way to look at the coaches is that this was their first year and should be expected to improve every year for the next 4 years where they will then reach relatively even footing with other FCS teams.

[Matt]

I'm not real big on all conference teams since its a lot about a resume and a lot of people don't like to nominate freshman, kinda like the heisman with only one fr winner and one fr runner up in history.

I actually think it is a good thing for fr to start. This new crop will have a chip on their shoulder to fix things at und. I look at a guy like Edwards and he was by far the best nt in camp last year and manhandled senior olinemen with ease. Young guys playing will also light a fire under the asses of those underachieving seniors and juniors and make them better by the competition. No ones job is safe and everyone including the coaches will improve because of it.

There will be growing pains with some players, but as long as they learn from them and play fast they will be an upgrade.

I fully expect to see some shirts pulled next fall.

Fair enough. How about something less subjective. Take a look at the conference leaders in any statistical category. You'll notice underclassmen ranked in the top 20 are the exception. Not only that, look at the records of the teams on which those underclassmen played. Usually not good. ISU (1-10) had 3 guys ranked in the top 20 for tackles. Sac (6-5) & PSU (3-8) each had an underclassmen contributing in passing ypg. Scoring? Montana (5-6) and UCD (4-7) each had a ranked underclassmen kicker, that's it. There are exceptions-CP's Ivory had a good td year.

Again, relying on underclassmen to make an impact in itself isn't a bad thing, particularly if it is some role players here and there. I'm confident it can pay dividends a couple years down the road, and with some luck maybe pull some upsets in the shorter term. But if those guys are in key positions (QB?) from which big contributions are needed, we may need to temper our expectations a little for next year.

I would welcome those players to exceed my expectations.

[Irish]

Fair enough. How about something less subjective. Take a look at the conference leaders in any statistical category. You'll notice underclassmen ranked in the top 20 are the exception. Not only that, look at the records of the teams on which those underclassmen played. Usually not good. ISU (1-10) had 3 guys ranked in the top 20 for tackles. Sac (6-5) & PSU (3-8) each had an underclassmen contributing in passing ypg. Scoring? Montana (5-6) and UCD (4-7) each had a ranked underclassmen kicker, that's it. There are exceptions-CP's Ivory had a good td year.

Again, relying on underclassmen to make an impact in itself isn't a bad thing, particularly if it is some role players here and there. I'm confident it can pay dividends a couple years down the road, and with some luck maybe pull some upsets in the shorter term. But if those guys are in key positions (QB?) from which big contributions are needed, we may need to temper our expectations a little for next year.

I would welcome those players to exceed my expectations.

Aww, but I don't want to temper my expectations next year -

[bincitysioux]

Personally, I have always been a bit reluctanct to criticize our coaches (although it does happen from time to time), since I have never coached athletics at the NCAA level so I feel rather unqualified to do so. I also rarely criticize pilots because I've never flown an airplane, and usually I refrain from admonishing surgeons because I'm not a doctor.

[Csonked Out]

Personally, I have always been a bit reluctanct to criticize our coaches (although it does happen from time to time), since I have never coached athletics at the NCAA level so I feel rather unqualified to do so. I also rarely criticize pilots because I've never flown an airplane, and usually I refrain from admonishing surgeons because I'm not a doctor.

So, unless we are coaches, we can't criticize other coaches? Last I checked, I paid over $30,000 to get a degree from this institution and donate annually to support all phases of the institution. I feel that allows me to voice my opinions on employees of a public university that is partly state funded. They are paid to perform both on and off the field and right now the defense on the field is failing. I feel I am an educated person on the matter and will continue to put my input in on matters such as this. I don't ask that anyone agree with my opinions, but I do request that my ability to post these opinions is honored.