Popular Post Chewey Posted November 19, 2014 Popular Post Posted November 19, 2014 The "town hall meeting" garbage is a way for them to gauge both whether the "cooling off period" has worked and whether there is still significant sentiment against choosing a new nickname. Good to hear that a significant number of people are telling them that there is no need for a new nickname. Stay "North Dakota" for at least 10 years and then start the "process" of selecting a name. That is the only pragmatic approach. It is the only means by which all "feelings" of all the "stakeholders", including (gasp!) the supporters of the Fighting Sioux nickname, will be assuaged. Adopting a stupid nickname for the sake of "marketing" will only result in the marketing of an stupid nickname which will only result in terrible sales. That whole marketing meme is code speak for simply adopting a new nickname quickly in order to have one and, more important for the "synaptically challenged academics" like Kelley, to say that we aren't the "Fighting Sioux" anymore (even though we aren't right now). This is it in a nutshell: We want a new nickname, even an imbecilic one, so we can tell everyone that we're no longer the "Fighting Sioux". I got it. Let's call UND the "Satans". Best nickname in the state of ND when D.L. had it and only very few of the right group - Christians - would be upset about it. No harm, no foul there. In my line of work, I see many of the students who labor under the 1.3 trillion of national student loan debt. In 2005, the average student loan debt was $17,233 and in 2012 the average was $27,253, a 58% increase (Forbes Magazine 02/21/14 "1 Trillion Student Loan Problem Keeps Getting Worse). It galls me to no end to think that debt will only increase to pay idiots like Kelley and the "Diversity and the Cultural Sensitivity" Vice President and legion other V.P. and related administrative boondoggles. There should be debt forgiveness to save our economy from what's inevitable. That loan forgiveness should be paid for by a dollar for dollar reduction in funding for higher education nationally. For 25 years the spigot of easy, government guaranteed money has run freely and the blob that is higher ed has done nothing "for the betterment of the students" in terms of cost control. 5 Quote
runaroundsioux Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Imagine a scenario where a child is being told they have a peanut allergy: I want my peanut butter. No, you can't have that any more. But I want it. You can't. I want it. You can't. Nothing good will come of it. Here, try this instead. No. What? No. I'm not eating anything if I can't have my peanut butter. You have to eat something. No I don't. You need to eat something. If I can't have peanut butter I'm going to have nothing! Sound familiar? This comparison is nonsense. Everyone knows a nickname can't cause anaphylactic shock. Quote
darell1976 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 The "town hall meeting" garbage is a way for them to gauge both whether the "cooling off period" has worked and whether there is still significant sentiment against choosing a new nickname. Good to hear that a significant number of people are telling them that there is no need for a new nickname. Stay "North Dakota" for at least 10 years and then start the "process" of selecting a name. That is the only pragmatic approach. It is the only means by which all "feelings" of all the "stakeholders", including (gasp!) the supporters of the Fighting Sioux nickname, will be assuaged. Adopting a stupid nickname for the sake of "marketing" will only result in the marketing of an stupid nickname which will only result in terrible sales. That whole marketing meme is code speak for simply adopting a new nickname quickly in order to have one and, more important for the "synaptically challenged academics" like Kelley, to say that we aren't the "Fighting Sioux" anymore (even though we aren't right now). This is it in a nutshell: We want a new nickname, even an imbecilic one, so we can tell everyone that we're no longer the "Fighting Sioux". I got it. Let's call UND the "Satans". Best nickname in the state of ND when D.L. had it and only very few of the right group - Christians - would be upset about it. No harm, no foul there. In my line of work, I see many of the students who labor under the 1.3 trillion of national student loan debt. In 2005, the average student loan debt was $17,233 and in 2012 the average was $27,253, a 58% increase (Forbes Magazine 02/21/14 "1 Trillion Student Loan Problem Keeps Getting Worse). It galls me to no end to think that debt will only increase to pay idiots like Kelley and the "Diversity and the Cultural Sensitivity" Vice President and legion other V.P. and related administrative boondoggles. There should be debt forgiveness to save our economy from what's inevitable. That loan forgiveness should be paid for by a dollar for dollar reduction in funding for higher education nationally. For 25 years the spigot of easy, government guaranteed money has run freely and the blob that is higher ed has done nothing "for the betterment of the students" in terms of cost control. 10 years? So in 2024 we can have this same discussion and give it another 5-10 years after that. No one will be happy because it's not the Fighting Sioux we all understand that. But there comes a time where you have accept that a new name will be chosen, and that time is now. 1 Quote
Siouxphan27 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 10 years? So in 2024 we can have this same discussion and give it another 5-10 years after that. No one will be happy because it's not the Fighting Sioux we all understand that. But there comes a time where you have accept that a new name will be chosen, and that time is now. I don't get why we have to have a nickname, and especially don't get why "that time is now." The 2 scare tactics being used to force a new name don't hold water. 1. I. don't believe the nonsense about losing out on countless $$$ because UND sweatshirts don't have a unicorn or sun dog on them. It could be argued alienating a large percentage of donors with a moronic nickname would be just as costly if not more so. 2. What in the wide wide world of sports could the NCAA do if we continued to have no nickname? I would like to see the NCAA rule mandating nicknames. Is there one? There is no way the NCAA could impose sanctions against UND for not having a nickname; their argument would essentially boil down to playing the role of Thought Police.... "Your Honor, Even though UND has no official nickname, we just know deep inside their minds they are still thinking they are the Fighting Sioux." Ridiculous. 4 Quote
yababy8 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 But there comes a time where you have accept that a new name will be chosen, and that time is now."There comes a time". I love that one. A classic phrase in the if you say it makes it true paradigm. Seems to be taken straight from the Kelly book of tricks right there with " the students want a new nickname" passages. ....let me try, "There comes a time when the wishes of the people of this community should be listened heard AND respected." ...eww that felt so good! Let me try again, "There comes a time when its time for new leadership at UND"...ahhh so fun! I feel the electricity flowing from my fingertips. 3 Quote
darell1976 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 "There comes a time". I love that one. A classic phrase in the if you say it makes it true paradigm. Seems to be taken straight from the Kelly book of tricks right there with " the students want a new nickname" passages. ....let me try, "There comes a time when the wishes of the people of this community should be listened heard AND respected." ...eww that felt so good! Let me try again, "There comes a time when its time for new leadership at UND"...ahhh so fun! I feel the electricity flowing from my fingertips. People felt 2012 wasn't time for a new name but 2015 will be time to choose one, now people are saying 2015 isn't time make it 10 years (2025). People aren't going to be happy with a new name and if it prevents people from attending or cheering on UND then there are other schools around the region to cheer for. Quote
darell1976 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 I don't get why we have to have a nickname, and especially don't get why "that time is now." The 2 scare tactics being used to force a new name don't hold water. 1. I. don't believe the nonsense about losing out on countless $$$ because UND sweatshirts don't have a unicorn or sun dog on them. It could be argued alienating a large percentage of donors with a moronic nickname would be just as costly if not more so. 2. What in the wide wide world of sports could the NCAA do if we continued to have no nickname? I would like to see the NCAA rule mandating nicknames. Is there one? There is no way the NCAA could impose sanctions against UND for not having a nickname; their argument would essentially boil down to playing the role of Thought Police.... "Your Honor, Even though UND has no official nickname, we just know deep inside their minds they are still thinking they are the Fighting Sioux." Ridiculous. Prior to 2005 what would or could the NCAA do if we had an Indian nickname. Well in 2005 we saw what they can do, it's their club and if they say have a nickname or face sanctions do we pick a name or apply for the NAIA? Quote
NoiseInsideMyHead Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Prior to 2005 what would or could the NCAA do if we had an Indian nickname. Well in 2005 we saw what they can do, it's their club and if they say have a nickname or face sanctions do we pick a name or apply for the NAIA? I suppose we could be grandfathered in if we got permission from two nameless people, although I'm not sure how they would sign the consent agreement. 1 Quote
darell1976 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 I suppose we could be grandfathered in if we got permission from two nameless people, although I'm not sure how they would sign the consent agreement. They would have the Bison football team sign it. Quote
DamStrait Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Imagine a scenario where a child is being told they have a peanut allergy: I want my peanut butter. No, you can't have that any more. But I want it. You can't. I want it. You can't. Nothing good will come of it. Here, try this instead. No. What? No. I'm not eating anything if I can't have my peanut butter. You have to eat something. No I don't. You need to eat something. If I can't have peanut butter I'm going to have nothing! Sound familiar? I think a far more accurate analogy of the current situation is the Hornitos tequila commercial - you know, the one that goes along the lines of: "Tequila please." "Which would you like?" "I don't know, any tequila." Then switches scenes to a barber shop: "I don't know any haircut." Then switches scenes to a tattoo parlor: "I don't know, any tattoo." Then switches scenes to a travel agency: "I don't know, anyplace." And in case any are having difficulty with where I am going with this: "I don't know, ANY nickname." 1 Quote
The Sicatoka Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 This comparison is nonsense. Everyone knows a nickname can't cause anaphylactic shock. Oh, I don't know. I've seen some reactions to the thought of a new moniker that seem like it. Anaphylactic shock symptoms include: shock, dizziness, shortness of breath or wheezing, and maybe some coronary distress. Sounds close. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 I suppose we could be grandfathered in if we got permission from two nameless people, although I'm not sure how they would sign the consent agreement. The Unknown Soldiers in Washington DC haven't signed anything lately. Quote
Fetch Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 they can have all the meetings in the world - but it does not mean we have to have a new name - they are just wasting time cause we will be the Fighting Sioux forever & ever .....amen Quote
Siouxphan27 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Prior to 2005 what would or could the NCAA do if we had an Indian nickname. Well in 2005 we saw what they can do, it's their club and if they say have a nickname or face sanctions do we pick a name or apply for the NAIA? 2005 is a completely different scenario. Who is UND offending now by having no nickname? I thought I just explained this: If the NCAA handed down sanctions because of having no nickname, UND would file a discrimination lawsuit. And win. The NCAA' would have no argument to stand on, and would look like fools trying to play Thought Police on their opinion of UNDs intentions to remain nickname-less. Thus, they would never hand out sanctions. Quote
Siouxperfan7 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 2005 is a completely different scenario. Who is UND offending now by having no nickname? I thought I just explained this: If the NCAA handed down sanctions because of having no nickname, UND would file a discrimination lawsuit. And win. The NCAA' would have no argument to stand on, and would look like fools trying to play Thought Police on their opinion of UNDs intentions to remain nickname-less. Thus, they would never hand out sanctions. Who is offended? Anyone doesn't want to just be known as just the University of North Dakota. Which is more than you think. Of course we all wish the Fighting Sioux name could live on forever. Well that is not going to happen. Any name chosen will obviously not be as good as the Fighting Sioux. But it is time to move on and select a new name that will honorable and that fans can get behind. 1 Quote
darell1976 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 What does this mean??? http://www.ag.nd.gov/ncaa/SettlementAgreement.pdf Page 6 of the settlement: If UND does not adopt a new nickname and logo, or if the transition to a new nickname and logo is not completed prior to August 15, 2011, then UND will be returned to the list of institutions subject to the Policy. I think the NCAA is allowing UND the "cooling off period" until Jan 1, 2015. If UND stays just North Dakota with NO nickname UND will be back on the list with Alcorn State and will be sanctioned. 1 Quote
The Sicatoka Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Who is UND offending now by having no nickname? I thought I just explained this: If the NCAA handed down sanctions because of having no nickname, UND would file a discrimination lawsuit. And win. The NCAA' would have no argument to stand on, and would look like fools trying to play Thought Police on their opinion of UNDs intentions to remain nickname-less. Thus, they would never hand out sanctions. Uh, in light of past events "And win" is a pretty bold prediction. Private club, their rules, and they can make them up on the fly (see: 2005). And at risk of repeating myself: At some point the NCAA will see through the "no name" ruse for what it is -- de facto continued use of the old name. 1 Quote
petey23 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Who is offended? Anyone doesn't want to just be known as just the University of North Dakota. Which is more than you think. Of course we all wish the Fighting Sioux name could live on forever. Well that is not going to happen. Any name chosen will obviously not be as good as the Fighting Sioux. But it is time to move on and select a new name that will honorable and that fans can get behind. How about Unicorns? Quote
BigGame Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Maybe we shouldn't bother with any name and mascot and just sell jersey space to sponsers. That can fund the athletics programs and we will look like Nascar. Quote
darell1976 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Maybe we shouldn't bother with any name and mascot and just sell jersey space to sponsers. That can fund the athletics programs and we will look like Nascar. Can we get sponsored by Indian Motorcycles, Pontiac, and the Big Sioux Truck Stop? 1 Quote
NoiseInsideMyHead Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 What does this mean??? http://www.ag.nd.gov/ncaa/SettlementAgreement.pdf Page 6 of the settlement: I think the NCAA is allowing UND the "cooling off period" until Jan 1, 2015. If UND stays just North Dakota with NO nickname UND will be back on the list with Alcorn State and will be sanctioned. The settlement agreement is an imperfect document, and there is no way that the drafters could have anticipated the way this played out. The timeline for action in the agreement is particularly suspect, as there were significant delays occasioned by legislation, litigation, and God knows what else. Heck, the NCAA already allowed a huge concession with respect to imagery at REA, so who knows where things will ultimately settle? In light of events now passed, it is virtually impossible to interpret and apply the agreement literally. You have to go beyond the four corners to breathe some meaningful life into the document. The quoted clause about returning UND to the infamous "list" is meaningless because we are no longer engaged in conduct that would place us on said list. Loophole city! My take is that the parties just assumed that there would be a new name, but that neither party expected there to be even the slightest possibility that UND would seriously consider going nameless. The total absence (*presumed but not confirmed) of an NCAA rule affirmatively requiring that members have a nickname pretty much forecloses "sanctions." NCAA's only options if UND stalls out would then be to (1) let UND slide, (2) sue for a breach of contract, or (3) enact a new rule, which they might not even be able to enforce retroactively. 1 Quote
The Sicatoka Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Maybe we shouldn't bother with any name and mascot and just sell jersey space to sponsers. That can fund the athletics programs and we will look like Nascar. http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/9644-random-nickname-ideas/?p=703255 Quote
ericpnelson Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/9644-random-nickname-ideas/?p=703255 Do we pronounce it Jag-u-ar or jag-uar? what's easier to chant? don't confuse me Quote
The Sicatoka Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Do we pronounce it Jag-u-ar or jag-uar? what's easier to chant? don't confuse me Rhymes with: Quote
FightingSioux87 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 I don't get why we have to have a nickname, and especially don't get why "that time is now." The 2 scare tactics being used to force a new name don't hold water. 1. I. don't believe the nonsense about losing out on countless $$$ because UND sweatshirts don't have a unicorn or sun dog on them. It could be argued alienating a large percentage of donors with a moronic nickname would be just as costly if not more so. 2. What in the wide wide world of sports could the NCAA do if we continued to have no nickname? I would like to see the NCAA rule mandating nicknames. Is there one? There is no way the NCAA could impose sanctions against UND for not having a nickname; their argument would essentially boil down to playing the role of Thought Police.... "Your Honor, Even though UND has no official nickname, we just know deep inside their minds they are still thinking they are the Fighting Sioux." Ridiculous. Totally agree here! Still would rather be the Sioux than nothing though Quote
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