POLL: Should UND-NDSU Resume the Football Series?

[Bison06]

UND could pack 30,000 in the Ralph. If hockey wasn't popular was is a little school like Moorhead trying to start one up with the financial problems Minnesota has. Why does Fargo have junior hockey? Why is there now girls hockey in high schools. Yep hockey isn't popular around here.

UND could not pack 30,000 into the Ralph on a regular basis or even once for that matter. That's as dilusional as NDSU fans thinking we had 30,000 in the metrodome.

Like you said Hockey is popular, around here.

[Teeder11]

You are aware that a ton of UND's growth is online classes. If you look at students on campus NDSU has about 1500-2000 more students. I don't see why enrollment numbers even matter? Are you guys mad that NDSU is a bigger school or something? I'm sure Notre Dame and Duke don't care that they have fewer than NDSU, they know that they can rock NDSU's world is most sports.

GeauxSioux, how bout we add another 15 games to NDSU's home football schedule and then lets look at that UND's big attendence boost comes from the hockey team, you get around 20 home games a year for that right? So......where do we go from here?

I should hope that NDSU has AT LEAST 1,500 more students actually on campus than a college town that has a population that is three times smaller and that is 80 miles farther northwest of the prime student recruiting ground that is the Twin Cities Metro area. Not to mention the fact that NDSU has lower tutition (not even counting NDSU's crapload of free tuition waivers) than Minnesota State Moorhead, and definitely, Concordia. With those advantages, you'd think that the on-campus enrollment disparity would be so much greater. It amazes me that UND has as the on-campus enrollment that it does given those odds and that kind of competition. It speaks well of the institution and the quality academics that it provides. And also, the fact that the number of online students from outside the tri-state area keeps growing speaks well to UND's reputation nationally, which is never a bad thing.

[JohnboyND7]

I should hope that NDSU has AT LEAST 1,500 more students actually on campus than a college town that has a population that is three times smaller and that is 80 miles farther northwest of the prime student recruiting ground that is the Twin Cities Metro area. Not to mention the fact that NDSU has lower tutition (not even counting NDSU's crapload of free tuition waivers) than Minnesota State Moorhead, and definitely, Concordia. With those advantages, you'd think that the on-campus enrollment disparity would be so much greater. It amazes me that UND has as the on-campus enrollment that it does given those odds and that kind of competition. It speaks well of the institution and the quality academics that it provides. And also, the fact that the number of online students from outside the tri-state area keeps growing speaks well to UND's reputation nationally, which is never a bad thing.

You are aware that for an extremely long time, UND was clearly a bigger school.....so apparently....based on history... I should hope that UND has AT LEAST 20-40% more students than NDSU because for years UND had that kind of numbers advantage.

Does that mean Nebraska-Omaha should be bigger than Nebraska. I mean...come on! Omaha is a bigger city! NDSU has lower tuition but it is roughly the same amount to go to NDSU as it is to UND. The difference in tuition won't stop anyone from going to UND if they want to.

If you want to be an online school, maybe you guys and University of Phoenix can have an annual online National Championship of some sorts. Why you guys are so anal about student numbers is beyond me. It has very little to do with athletics.

[darell1976]

UND could not pack 30,000 into the Ralph on a regular basis or even once for that matter. That's as dilusional as NDSU fans thinking we had 30,000 in the metrodome.

Like you said Hockey is popular, around here.

When UND plays Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, the Bostons, St. Clown St, Denver, Omaha we could get 30,000. A lot of out of towners can actually see a game and not a sold out sign from 12,000 people.

[JohnboyND7]

UND could not pack 30,000 into the Ralph on a regular basis or even once for that matter. That's as dilusional as NDSU fans thinking we had 30,000 in the metrodome.

Like you said Hockey is popular, around here.

I'd say more delusional, NDSU had 20-some thousand in there. Could be 20,000, could be 28,000. All I know is it was a substantial amount of fans. UND could put about 15,000 or so in the Ralph. Maybe a few more from time to time. A big rivalry game against the Gophers I'll bump it up to 20,000 but a fair number are going to be Minnesota fans.

[Bison06]

When UND plays Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, the Bostons, St. Clown St, Denver, Omaha we could get 30,000. A lot of out of towners can actually see a game and not a sold out sign from 12,000 people.

So when UND plays Minnesota, there are 15-20k people who would like to be at the game and can't get in.

I am not saying UND hockey isn't popular, but that isn't even close to reality.

[PhillySioux]

No matter what happens with either program, we can all sleep well knowing that our respective athletic departments would never dream of putting out something as horrible as this:

http://deadspin.com/5841116/goldy-gopher-dancing-to-a-forgettable-80s-song-just-might-save-minnesota-football

[Teeder11]

You are aware that for an extremely long time, UND was clearly a bigger school.....so apparently....based on history... I should hope that UND has AT LEAST 20-40% more students than NDSU because for years UND had that kind of numbers advantage.

Does that mean Nebraska-Omaha should be bigger than Nebraska. I mean...come on! Omaha is a bigger city! NDSU has lower tuition but it is roughly the same amount to go to NDSU as it is to UND. The difference in tuition won't stop anyone from going to UND if they want to.

If you want to be an online school, maybe you guys and University of Phoenix can have an annual online National Championship of some sorts. Why you guys are so anal about student numbers is beyond me. It has very little to do with athletics.

Not that it matters. But it clearly irked Chapman to be little brother to UND to the degree that he made drastic changes that ultimately would come back to bite NDSU.

I will take it point by point:

1) Point: You are aware that for an extremely long time, UND was clearly a bigger school.....so apparently....based on history... I should hope that UND has AT LEAST 20-40% more students than NDSU because for years UND had that kind of numbers advantage.

Counterpoint: Yes, I am aware, and so was NDSU's former president. And he resented that fact. I used to joke with him about it when he would come up to our campus to visit Kupchella. I meant it as good natured ribbing and he took as well as he gave, but you could tell it was a sore spot. It was worse when I used to give Craig Schnell, the old provost, the same treatment. Wow! he was a nice guy but she sure wore green and gold colored glasses a little too tightly. Anywho, so the plan was launched to achieve higher awareness regionally for NDSU on the backs of athletics and at the expense of academics. More regional exposure in tangent with partial and full tuition waivers, which have been much publicized in the news and in the blogosphere of late, drove enrollment past UND's with a bullet. So, it really does not matter so much to UND as much as it did to NDSU's old boss and now the current school officials are left holding the bag that was caused by his empire building.

2) Point: Does that mean Nebraska-Omaha should be bigger than Nebraska. I mean...come on! Omaha is a bigger city!

Counterpoint: Well, if you want to use a strawman to prove a point, so be it. All that aside, you do realize that the distance between Omaha and Lincoln is 59 miles.... a long commute in most cities. They are basically one combined statistical metropolitan area competing for the same students.

3) Point: NDSU has lower tuition but it is roughly the same amount to go to NDSU as it is to UND. The difference in tuition won't stop anyone from going to UND if they want to.

Counterpoint: Hey genius, I wasn't comparing NDSU and UND's tuition at all (they are basically relatively the same, despite the NDSU's end-around to get it jacked up another 8 percent). I was comparing the tuitions of the three F-M metro colleges. I said that NDSU should have no problem capturing the vast majority of local students based on its lower tuition alone.

4) Point: If you want to be an online school, maybe you guys and University of Phoenix can have an annual online National Championship of some sorts.

Counterpoint: I think UND just wants to deliver the best education that it can whether it's on campus or through online courses, and clearly, the school is doing both, as evidenced by the strong enrollment in both cases.

5) Point:Why you guys are so anal about student numbers is beyond me.

Counterpoint: We are not. Chapman clearly was.

6) Point: It has very little to do with athletics.

Counterpoint: It has everything to do with athletics as Chapman built his empire on the backs of athletics and the exposure it would provide him in the prime student recruiting grounds. This was all done at the expense of academics, which has suffered mightly since the Chapman initiative to take it to the "Next Level" was launched.

[JohnboyND7]

Not that it matters. But it clearly irked Chapman to be little brother to UND to the degree that he made drastic changes that ultimately would come back to bite NDSU.

I will take it point by point:

1) Point: You are aware that for an extremely long time, UND was clearly a bigger school.....so apparently....based on history... I should hope that UND has AT LEAST 20-40% more students than NDSU because for years UND had that kind of numbers advantage.

Counterpoint: Yes, I am aware, and so was NDSU's former president. And he resented that fact. I used to joke with him about it when he would come up to our campus to visit Kupchella. I meant it as good natured ribbing and he took as well as he gave, but you could tell it was a sore spot. It was worse when I used to give Craig Schnell, the old provost, the same treatment. Wow! he was a nice guy but she sure wore green and gold colored glasses a little too tightly. Anywho, so the plan was launched to achieve higher awareness regionally for NDSU on the backs of athletics and at the expense of academics. More regional exposure in tangent with partial and full tuition waivers, which have been much publicized in the news and in the blogosphere of late, drove enrollment past UND's with a bullet. So, it really does not matter so much to UND as much as it did to NDSU's old boss and now the current school officials are left holding the bag that was caused by his empire building.

2) Point: Does that mean Nebraska-Omaha should be bigger than Nebraska. I mean...come on! Omaha is a bigger city!

Counterpoint: Well, if you want to use a strawman to prove a point, so be it. All that aside, you do realize that the distance between Omaha and Lincoln is 59 miles.... a long commute in most cities. They are basically one combined statistical metropolitan area competing for the same students.

I hope you realize NDSU and UND are what? 70 miles apart? So your counterpoint sucked buddy. NDSU and UND compete for the same group of students as well for the most part. The other ones I can respect. As a big NDSU backer I never have cared that UND was bigger, I enjoyed my time at NDSU. I had a lot of fun, just like people who go to UND hopefully enjoy their time there. NDSU will probably hold on to their lead for quite awhile now, maybe for good. Especially on campus enrollment. Both schools are really good for the state because of the programs each of them offer so thats great. I trust our agricultural situations to NDSU and I trust my doctors from UND. I trust my NDSU engineers and I trust my UND pilots. I trust both business schools, I think they are pretty comparable?

In the end this discussion is about athletics. Both schools have their sports. I personally feel like NDSU has a better overall athletics program but in UND's defense we had a head start so in a few years we will see how it all goes down. At the end of the day, NDSU generally is good at football, and UND generally has a hockey program to count on. Lets get a couple of football games on the schedule just so all of us can get our built up anger and testerone out of our systems. I have concluded I have been a dick all week to UND fans. I apologize, but DaveK and Star2City can get anyones blood boiling just like I have probably pissed off a lot of you guys.

2014: Fargo

2015: Grand Forks

2016:Cowboys Stadium? i kid, but it'd be cool.

[JohnboyND7]

Don't try to drag me into this. You are 100 times worse than I am. If I was going to Bisonville and starting flame wars like you do here, then and only then would you have a valid point. I don't post on Bisonville and I don't even talk about NDSU here unless it is in response to somebody else having first brought up that vile topic. You on the other hand constantly start UND/NDSU topics and you do it here of all places. If I piss you off there's one simple cure, don't visit this forum anymore. It's not like I'm on Bisonville littering your board with hatred like you are doing here. If people could learn to keep the anti-NDSU stuff here on SiouxSports and the anti-UND stuff on Bisonville then none of us will have a problem.

You started the NDSU vs. UM discussion in the Fresno Vs. UND thread bro, talked about blowing a gasket. A problem will be everywhere, we don't like one another, yet some of the more bold gentlemen feel the need(myself included) to go on the other board so we can discuss problems we have with one another and throw our opinions into random things(my big thing is checking out the facilities thread). I think it was Darell who thought we could not use the nickel if the Bison and UND(nickname pending) played again. Turns out he is wrong. SFA and Sam Houston play for this trophy. I'd say the nickel is more politically correct considering the government still has to honor a coin that was minted by them. The NCAA cant possibly get mad at the nickel if they are cool with this. Your move Darell(or whoever brought up we can't play for it anymore.) If you don't want to play for the Nickel.....then you must be as liberal as the guys who made the rule you can't be the Sioux, and if you don't support the Sioux nickname, you are not welcome at SIOUXsports

[JohnboyND7]

I did not start the NDSU discussion in the Fresno thread. Go back and read it again, and you will see that first Wilbur said:

"Nothing wrong with a little national exposure. I'd rather have the Sioux travel to Fresno State and get killed then play a NAIA school at home.

This is the world of DI-AA football or FCS, whatever you want to call it. Teams like Fresno, Idaho, Texas Tech, etc. need games to fill their home schedules. They pay you to come out, and expect to beat you.

Unless you are the U of M, whose football program is so down at the moment you can't beat South Dakota. NDSU will beat them in a couple of weeks when they play, and they'll get paid to do it."

I followed that up with the comment about blowing a gasket if the Gophers were to lose that game. I do NOT ever bring up the NDSU topic because I do not like them and do not wish to give them the attention that they crave. However, I will someties react accordingly when they are brought up by somebody else. Again, I don't post any of my anti-NDSU stuff on Bisonville so based on that fact alone I'm nowhere near your league when it comes to pissing off fans of the rival team. If I was posting derogatory stuff on Bisonville you guys would have every right to call me every dirty name in the book, but I find it hilarious that you and others get so riled up over my opinions when I don't post them on any board other than this one.

Imagine that, a Sioux fan that hates the Bison. Yeah, like that makes me everything that you accuse me of being.

I find it flattering that you and others on Bisonville are so preoccupied with me but I just don't understand why you waste so much of your valuable time on me. Am I that important? I really don't think I am.

Too lazy to go back and look, Wilbur randomly brings up the Herd from time to time as well. I apologize for believing it was you in that case. You do realize NDSU is probably going to be favored....you shouldn't blow a gasket if a favored team wins a game. You are in my league bro, just cause I am willing to come throw my two cents into the discussion doesn't make me a bad person. I don't think your a dirty fan by any means...I wear yellow colored glasses but I believe you are worse. You have every right to be. We all love our teams. We don't get riled up. We are on an internet message board, this is stuff we do in our free time( my job gives me quite a bit of that). You post anti-NDSU stuff on here, Bison fans see that. If you check out our preposterous statements thread on BV you will see that you, Star, and Irishsiouxfan are the three most popular preposterous statement leaders. Darell apprently posted today that NDSU is afraid to play UND in football because NDSU knows UND would beat NDSU in football. UND may have won 9 of the last 12 games in the Nickel series, 10 of the last 14 I believe counting playoffs...but this aint the 90's, this in a new decade. Right nwo if they played, most would admit the Bison would probably beat UND convincingly. You are a UND fan who hates the Bison, your history of posts suggest that. And no, you do not find it flattering that people don't like you. When people claim to be flattered people don't like them that means they really are not overly happy that they are not liked. It is in the human nature to want peers to like them. Hell UND fans don't even like you, they know you are as delusional as any UND or NDSU fan.

[CMSioux]

Everytime a bisonswill fan posts on Siouxsports it screams of their inferiority complex. Please go post on your new rivals site I'm sure the Jackrabbits would love to hear from you. UND has moved in a different direction - what part of that don't you understand - we are in a different conference, we have different values, we have a top tier Division I sport that you can't relate to. Please mooooove on!

[senor_sieve]

NDSU is going to be favored over the Gophers? The same Gophers team that lost by a mere 2 points at USC?

the same gopher team that lost to New Mexico State last week. You might know them as a competitor for cellar-dweller of the WAC with the likes of the mighty Idaho Vandals and the SJSU Spartans. This Gopher team could possibly be worse than their 07 squad, we'll see if they can regroup today against a middle of the MAC squad.

[petey23]

The '07 squad lost to NDSU. You can't sink much lower than losing to NDSU. Granted, they could lose to them again this year but if that happens then I guess that means that USC has regressed a lot more than anybody ever thought they would. Still, even if the New Mexico State game is more indicative of where the Gophers are at than the USC game... I can't imagine a scenario in which a I-AA team would be favored over a D1 team ever under any circumstances. For a Bison fan to come here and post that NDSU should be favored at Minnesota speaks volumes about the perception we have of NDSU fans overrating their team. It's one thing to say you like their chances of winning for whatever reason you think they have a shot, but to suggest that they should be favored is just ignorant beyond belief.

If Minnesota loses again today, NDSU should be and will be favored again against Minnesota just like they were in 07. I think people overlook just how bad of a coach Lane Kiffin(regarding thhe USC game) is. Jerry Kill has alot of work to do in dinkytown. The Gophs may have been on the downslide when Mason left, but Brewster took them to rock bottom. The 07 team was not only historically bad as a Gopher team, but one of the worst Big Ten teams in history. Given that the current Gopher team is the result of 3 more years of Brewster, this team may be worse.

[dakotadan]

In case anybody doesn't know, we do have a football game today. And it isn't against NDSU or Minnesota.

And our volleyball team has 2 games today too.

[FargoBison]

I don't believe that the Bison were favored over the Gophers in '07. As bad as the Gophers were that year, I and many others here correctly predicted that game as being a loss for the Gophers but I do not believe that the oddsmakers in Vegas saw it like that. I think that technically speaking it was considered an upset, just like any other time a D1 team loses to a I-AA opponent. The oddsmakers respect I-AA about as much as NDSU fans respect NAIA. Please find me a link showing a I-AA team being favored over a D1 team EVER. If I am proven wrong on this, so be it. I'll admit that I was wrong, drop it, and move on. But I do not for one minute believe that NDSU being favored over Minnesota is at all realistic. Even if NDSU was among the upper echelon of I-AA, which they are not, they have no business being favored on the road vs. a Big Ten opponent. That doesn't mean they don't have a chance to win, as the better team does not always win and that is why they play the games.

Looks like in 2007 the line started out at NDSU +1.5 and the betting pushed the line to NDSU -5.5 or -7.

http://www.therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=522226

[WYOBISONMAN]

Okay, I stand corrected. I still don't think they will be favored again this year, as the Bison are nowhere near as good as they were in '07 and I don't think the Gophers are nearly as weak as they were in '07... but I'm still suprised that this line favored NDSU even in '07. So I will retract my statement that a I-AA can never be favored over a D1. In rare cases where a great I-AA plays a terrible D1 the I-AA can actually be favored.

See, now who says I can't admit it when I've been proven wrong?

The way the Gophers are playing Miami, I would think that NDSU would not be favored. Minnesota is clearly better than the last time we played them.

[lakessioux]

Okay, I stand corrected. I still don't think they will be favored again this year, as the Bison are nowhere near as good as they were in '07 and I don't think the Gophers are nearly as weak as they were in '07... but I'm still suprised that this line favored NDSU even in '07. So I will retract my statement that a I-AA can never be favored over a D1. In rare cases where a great I-AA plays a terrible D1 the I-AA can actually be favored.

See, now who says I can't admit it when I've been proven wrong?

I think what you just did is the first step in a long process. I congratulate you!!!

[JohnboyND7]

NDSU is going to be favored over the Gophers? The same Gophers team that lost by a mere 2 points at USC?

Yeah, there's a perfect example of you thinking that your favorite team is way better than what they are in reality. If I've said it once I've said it a million times, the Bison are not anywhere near as good as most of their fanbase talks them up to be. They're a slightly better than average I-AA team. They've made the playoffs one out of three years since becoming playoff eligible and have not won or played in a title game at any level in over 20 years. But if you listen to the way you and the rest of their fanbase talks about them you'd swear they had won won like 10 national championships in the last 20 years with another 5 runner-up finishes. The fact of the matter is that they really just are not all that. They're okay, nothing more and nothing less. To suggest they'll be favored over the Gophers is delusional beyond belief. They might win the game, but there's no way on earth that any rational and objective person would consider them to be favored. That statement alone makes you way worse than I am when it comes to being biased.

...and to think that some people actually have the audacity to wonder what makes me hate that team so much.

New Mexico St. outplayed the gophers for 4 quarters. The Gophers lost to USD last year and we rocked USD. University of Minnesota isn't very good anymore, Kill is going to need a few years to fix Brewster's mess. Gopher fans have proclaimed New Mexico St. as their most winnable game. NDSU has every right to go into that game expecting nothing less than a great shot at a win. Hopefully we will all get to see you blow that gasket.

[forumcrew]

I did the right thing. I was a stand up guy, admitted that I was wrong... and got a -1 for it. This just goes to show beyond a shadow of a doubt that at least one of the NDSU trolls here is OBSESSED.

You just replied and quoted your own post. You sir, are a moron.

[JohnboyND7]

I did the right thing. I was a stand up guy, admitted that I was wrong... and got a -1 for it. This just goes to show beyond a shadow of a doubt that at least one of the NDSU trolls here is OBSESSED.

forum brings up a compelling argument. It appears that you may be trying to have a conversation with yourself about your belief that some folks are obsessed with you. You remind me of a more well-behaved Lakesbison.

[PhillySioux]

http://youtu.be/Cwbop13A9yQ?t=10s

Good Stuff.

[CMSioux]

Wow does that video clip ever speak volumes - one side focused on the negative and obsessed, the other side focused on the positive and confident in themselves. Some things never change.

[Johnny Five]

There is some good football being played by BOTH TEAMS up I29 right now. I don't know why it is so difficult for some adults to acknowledge that. I hope und keeps beating ranked teams, good for you guys.

On a side note, how about Jake Miller and Ryan Smith. Two years ago these two were dominating ND high school football. Now both are key contributors as sophomores on top 1aa teams. I love it.

[JohnboyND7]

There is some good football being played by BOTH TEAMS up I29 right now. I don't know why it is so difficult for some adults to acknowledge that. I hope und keeps beating ranked teams, good for you guys.

On a side note, how about Jake Miller and Ryan Smith. Two years ago these two were dominating ND high school football. Now both are key contributors as sophomores on top 1aa teams. I love it.

Both of them are looking pretty good. Hopefully North Dakota talent continues to make its way into the state teams. It would be nice to get a top guy to stay in-state. i.e McGovern or Qvale.