House Bill to Save the Sioux Passes 65 to 28.

[Blackburn87]

Interesting side note...

Back before the legislature was even in session, I was still mourning one frustrating loss after another on the Sioux name. My 14 year old daughter, who aspires to attend UND and be a Fighting Sioux cheerleader looked me in the eye and said camly, "The name is not going away. Mark my words. They will keep it somehow, someway."

Wouldn't it be something if she's right?

[lakeshoe]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41723107/ns/local_news-fargo_nd/

Folks, claiming " ... we'll just schedule ... " is just plain naive.

It takes both teams agreeing to make a schedule. And it's far easier to find a "no" excuse than a "yes".

So unless there's a way to guarantee not ending up on the sanctions list, this effort can end up a net negative.

Funny how this article twists the truth about the whole discussion. "However, in North Dakota the Standing Rock tribe opposes the Fighting Sioux nickname." is stated as fact...just no information how hard thousands signed a petition to VOTE on approval but were disenfranchised by the council. What, no mention about 67% of Spirit Lake Tribe approval? Same old bull$%!# from the anti-nickname .....just wish they'd shut up until the votes are counted.

This is an issue that I and the rest of the SIOUX nation supporters will not waiver...We are the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux and always will be! We take extreme pride in UND's rich history leading the nation with numbers of enrolled Native American students and numbers of Indian Studies programs.

NCAA calling us "Hostile and Abusive" is just plain bull$%!#. They should have made an effort to actually visit North Dakota before passing judgement because of twisted lies and half truths.

[theisdog]

Funny how this article twists the truth about the whole discussion. "However, in North Dakota the Standing Rock tribe opposes the Fighting Sioux nickname." is stated as fact...just no information how hard thousands signed a petition to VOTE on approval but were disenfranchised by the council. What, no mention about 67% of Spirit Lake Tribe approval? Same old bull$%!# from the anti-nickname .....just wish they'd shut up until the votes are counted.

This is an issue that I and the rest of the SIOUX nation supporters will not waiver...We are the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux and always will be! We take extreme pride in UND's rich history leading the nation with numbers of enrolled Native American students and numbers of Indian Studies programs.

NCAA calling us "Hostile and Abusive" is just plain bull$%!#. They should have made an effort to actually visit North Dakota before passing judgement because of twisted lies and half truths.

Amen. Well put.

[Goon]

Funny how this article twists the truth about the whole discussion. "However, in North Dakota the Standing Rock tribe opposes the Fighting Sioux nickname." is stated as fact...just no information how hard thousands signed a petition to VOTE on approval but were disenfranchised by the council. What, no mention about 67% of Spirit Lake Tribe approval? Same old bull$%!# from the anti-nickname .....just wish they'd shut up until the votes are counted.

This is an issue that I and the rest of the SIOUX nation supporters will not waiver...We are the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux and always will be! We take extreme pride in UND's rich history leading the nation with numbers of enrolled Native American students and numbers of Indian Studies programs.

NCAA calling us "Hostile and Abusive" is just plain bull$%!#. They should have made an effort to actually visit North Dakota before passing judgement because of twisted lies and half truths.

I caught that as well, it should read "However, in North Dakota the Standing Rock tribal council opposes letting their tribal members to vote on whether UND can retain the Fighting Sioux nickname."

[Goon]

NCAA calling us "Hostile and Abusive" is just plain bull$%!#. They should have made an effort to actually visit North Dakota before passing judgement because of twisted lies and half truths.

The P.C. crowd doesn't care about facts; they don't need to come to North Dakota to see for themselves; they can create their own facts and arguments against the Fighting Sioux nickname, if you don

[Let'sGoHawks!]

The P.C. crowd doesn't care about facts; they don't need to come to North Dakota to see for themselves; they can create their own facts and arguments against the Fighting Sioux nickname, if you don

[Teeder11]

Funny how this article twists the truth about the whole discussion. "However, in North Dakota the Standing Rock tribe opposes the Fighting Sioux nickname." is stated as fact...just no information how hard thousands signed a petition to VOTE on approval but were disenfranchised by the council. What, no mention about 67% of Spirit Lake Tribe approval? Same old bull$%!# from the anti-nickname .....just wish they'd shut up until the votes are counted.

This is an issue that I and the rest of the SIOUX nation supporters will not waiver...We are the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux and always will be! We take extreme pride in UND's rich history leading the nation with numbers of enrolled Native American students and numbers of Indian Studies programs.

NCAA calling us "Hostile and Abusive" is just plain bull$%!#. They should have made an effort to actually visit North Dakota before passing judgement because of twisted lies and half truths.

The media excerpt you quote is cited as coming from KVLY in Fargo, which means it was probably compiled by a freshly-minted Moorhead State journalism grad whose knowledge of the nickname issue probably derived from a 30-second study of one paragraph on Wikipedia before filing the report. It shouldn't be that way; but believe me, that's usually the extent of media research these days. Especially, by the young punks that our small market television stations attract around here.

So, I'm fairly confident that the lesson of Hanlon's Razor applies here, which is "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

I know it makes for a more interesting message board if we could continue to allege that conspiratorial or clandestine forces were at work here, but sorry to be a buzz kill, it's more likely to be the result of media ignorance.

[Old Time Hockey]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41723107/ns/local_news-fargo_nd/

Folks, claiming " ... we'll just schedule ... " is just plain naive.

It takes both teams agreeing to make a schedule. And it's far easier to find a "no" excuse than a "yes".

So unless there's a way to guarantee not ending up on the sanctions list, this effort can end up a net negative.

MSNBC........ thats all you need to know

[Teeder11]

MSNBC........ thats all you need to know

It was a KVLY (Valley News Live-- Fargo, N.D.) report that was re-posted on the MSNBC site. KVLY is an affiliate of MSNBC's parent station.

[Knickball2]

Let North Dakota be the place that said enough with the Political Correctness, majority rule, and you know what, the arguments that Gordon Caldis made with regard to

trademark and copyright-intellectual property rights that the University owns in the logo and nickname have Federal precedent in action by other universities against the

dreaded NCAA. Isn't that how Central Michigan is still the Chippewas, weren't they on the hostile and abusive list at one point also. Fighting Sioux forever.

[ksixpack]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41723107/ns/local_news-fargo_nd/

Folks, claiming " ... we'll just schedule ... " is just plain naive.

It takes both teams agreeing to make a schedule. And it's far easier to find a "no" excuse than a "yes".

So unless there's a way to guarantee not ending up on the sanctions list, this effort can end up a net negative.

Personally, I don't buy this horror story of teams not scheduling us. That is a hypothetical argument and has no basis of fact at this point...pure speculation. We have been listed hostile and abusive for years now and I don't think it has been much of an issue with teams avoiding us. Furthermore, those who spew this scheduling nightmare for UND have to remember that the NCAA is not held in high requard by many schools. The NCAA has been a pain in the ass to the majority of the schools it represents and I don't think it would be hard to find many schools who would go out of there way and schedule UND just to thumb their nose at the NCAA.

That said, if future scheduling would become an issue, can't we sit down with these universities and give them the facts. If I am not mistaken isn't UND in the education business? If a school has a problem scheduling UND then maybe UND should educate them on the facts of the issue. How hard would it be for President Kelley to meet with these people and bring the good folks from Standing Rock and Spirit Nation with him to explain to these universities the truth of the matter. The facts speak for themselves and the truth is always easy to communicate. I can't believe that if a school will not schedule UND our administration would just throw their hands in the air without dialog...how pathetic!

If I have a customer that won't do business with me because he heard some lies about my company from a competitor I sure in the hell wouldn't take that sitting down! I would get on the phone immediately and prove to that customer that these lies have no merit and educate that customer about the truths and try to win back that customers confidence. There is a reason that Mr. Kelley and the rest of the administration wouldn't do this and it is obvious as the nose on your face...they have no intention and have never had intention of retaining the name!

[bincitysioux]

Like many others, this is a tough issue for me..................

I love the name and logo as much as anyone and would love to keep it. But when the news broke about the legislature passing this I had mixed emotions. I like the idea of giving the NCAA the middle finger for sticking there nose into somewhere that it didn't belong..............but I feel I also grasp the potential ramifications that will come toward the entire University athletic department as a result of keeping the name.

I think I would fall into the category of being more of a football and basketball fan than a hockey fan, although I'm a season ticket holder for hockey and I attend more hockey games than any other University athletic event. I guess coming from a small ND town and having no exposure to the sport of hockey until I attended the University plays the largest part in that.

I'm a moderator on this site that regularly patrols the football, basketball, DI reclassification, community and other sports forums, but I rarely police the hockey forum because I'm not that knowledgable about the sport in general, just a fan of North Dakota, so I leave that to others.

I also rarely enter the nickname forum, but when I do (this thread for example), I find a majority of posters in favor of retaining the name at all costs, a minority that errs on the side of caution, and a miniscule number in favor of doing away with the name. What I find intriguing is that when I do get involved in the nickname forum, I am rarely reading posts from members that also participate in the football, basketball, DI, or other sports forums. But most of those names and avatars I can find as prominent posters in the hockey forum. There is nothing wrong with that at all...........you won't find many more passionate fans than UND hockey fans.................the only reason I mention it is that I've read numerous posts in this forum that proclaim that the nickname is not divisive on the UND campus. I actually think it is. And I don't mean by the Native American students, or the PC professors..................I mean between the stakeholders of the University. Unfortunately, it seems like it has come down to showdown between UND's hockey-only fans and UND's all-sports fans.................

With the move to DI, it is true that likely the only sport affected by post-season sanctions as far as hosting goes is football. To me, and likely many others, that is a big deal. It is difficult to win national championships at our level of football without home field advantage. As a hockey fan, I fear Big 10 hockey. Sure one can speculated that Minnesota and Wisconsin will only have 20 conference games, and they need to fill the rest of their schedule. We can argue until we're blue in the face that the Gophers will not walk away from the UND rivalry, but what motivation would there be to keep it going? Every other Minnesota program (SCSU, UMD, MSU, BSU) will do cartwheels to stay on their schedules. I would think it to be highly unlikely that UMTC would continue to travel to Grand Forks when they won't even invite our track & field teams to their campus. North Dakota is the only Dakota school to not have played football or basketball on Minnesota's campus the last 4 years for a reason. Honestly, that doesn't break my heart, but if this bill passes, we won't be welcome on Wisconsin's or Iowa's campus's either. Not a big deal for hockey, but it is for every other sport within the program. Who knows who else will follow their lead?

[bisonh8er]

Like many others, this is a tough issue for me..................

I love the name and logo as much as anyone and would love to keep it. But when the news broke about the legislature passing this I had mixed emotions. I like the idea of giving the NCAA the middle finger for sticking there nose into somewhere that it didn't belong..............but I feel I also grasp the potential ramifications that will come toward the entire University athletic department as a result of keeping the name.

I think I would fall into the category of being more of a football and basketball fan than a hockey fan, although I'm a season ticket holder for hockey and I attend more hockey games than any other University athletic event. I guess coming from a small ND town and having no exposure to the sport of hockey until I attended the University plays the largest part in that.

I'm a moderator on this site that regularly patrols the football, basketball, DI reclassification, community and other sports forums, but I rarely police the hockey forum because I'm not that knowledgable about the sport in general, just a fan of North Dakota, so I leave that to others.

I also rarely enter the nickname forum, but when I do (this thread for example), I find a majority of posters in favor of retaining the name at all costs, a minority that errs on the side of caution, and a miniscule number in favor of doing away with the name. What I find intriguing is that when I do get involved in the nickname forum, I am rarely reading posts from members that also participate in the football, basketball, DI, or other sports forums. But most of those names and avatars I can find as prominent posters in the hockey forum. There is nothing wrong with that at all...........you won't find many more passionate fans than UND hockey fans.................the only reason I mention it is that I've read numerous posts in this forum that proclaim that the nickname is not divisive on the UND campus. I actually think it is. And I don't mean by the Native American students, or the PC professors..................I mean between the stakeholders of the University. Unfortunately, it seems like it has come down to showdown between UND's hockey-only fans and UND's all-sports fans.................

With the move to DI, it is true that likely the only sport affected by post-season sanctions as far as hosting goes is football. To me, and likely many others, that is a big deal. It is difficult to win national championships at our level of football without home field advantage. As a hockey fan, I fear Big 10 hockey. Sure one can speculated that Minnesota and Wisconsin will only have 20 conference games, and they need to fill the rest of their schedule. We can argue until we're blue in the face that the Gophers will not walk away from the UND rivalry, but what motivation would there be to keep it going? Every other Minnesota program (SCSU, UMD, MSU, BSU) will do cartwheels to stay on their schedules. I would think it to be highly unlikely that UMTC would continue to travel to Grand Forks when they won't even invite our track & field teams to their campus. North Dakota is the only Dakota school to not have played football or basketball on Minnesota's campus the last 4 years for a reason. Honestly, that doesn't break my heart, but if this bill passes, we won't be welcome on Wisconsin's or Iowa's campus's either. Not a big deal for hockey, but it is for every other sport within the program. Who knows who else will follow their lead?

I was under the impression that we are blacklisted from the above schools until our nickname situation is resolved. I don't think it specifies whether we get to keep the name or not just that the issue is settled. So if the bill passes and UND indeed keeps the name then the issue would be resolved. Therefore I believe they would be open the scheduling us.

[FargoBison]

I was under the impression that we are blacklisted from the above schools until our nickname situation is resolved. I don't think it specifies whether we get to keep the name or not just that the issue is settled. So if the bill passes and UND indeed keeps the name then the issue would be resolved. Therefore I believe they would be open the scheduling us.

I believe resolved means being off the NCAA's hostile and abusive list...

“We follow whatever the NCAA’s rulings are,” said Mark Abbott, Iowa’s associate athletic director. “So if you’re on their list of restricted teams, we won’t play you. If you’re removed from that list, for whatever reason, then we’d follow the NCAA’s direction on that.”

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=3102550

[Aloha]

The Constitution IS a wonderful thing. But don't forget that the man who wrote the US declaration of independance was an advocate of ripping up our Federal Constitution and starting over every 20 years (Thomas Jefferson). In my opinion what you are overlooking is the fact that just because there is a constitution in place, does not mean the contents are infallable. The people, both non-Native and Native have declared that we do not agree with this change. We are the same people whom the constitution was written FOR. And we are the same people who , through our voices and votes, are granted the power to oppose statutes, laws, - and yes - even the constitution of our governments (state or federal). Keeping the name will NOT be (has not been) easy... nor should it be. The constitution (state or federal) BY DESIGN should be diffucult to oppose or ultimately change. God forbid we see a day when the legislators do not listen to, our act on, the will of the people because the constitution is difficult to oppose or change . In my estimation that (to an extent) has been going on too often when it comes to this situation But now, with the passage of this bill in the House, it appears that maybe someone is listening.

Your arguement seems to be that this is unconstitutional - and it may be. To that I say - "that doesn't mean it is the wrong thing to do". I realize we are talking about the state constitution, but the principles governing the state and federal are the same. Now - do you think the Constitution of the U.S. (or our state constituion for that matter) is a STRONGER document or WEAKER document because there have been some ammendments (read: CHANGES) to it? I would say there are more than a few women, black americans, land owners, taxpayers, minorities and other citizens who are glad that someone decided along the way that just because something is difficult or unconstitutional doesn't mean it is not the right thing to do.

[Aloha]

Thomas Jefferson Had NOTHING to do with the Constitution, wasn't even at the convention. Didn't actively support it. True, he did state revolution wasn't a bad thing. But Madison wrote the Constitution for the most part. With a big help from Franklin, appears again and offers the great compromise between the small and big states, so we have a senate and a house of reps. Compromise is these days of course a dirty word, too bad.

[Hambone]

I believe resolved means being off the NCAA's hostile and abusive list...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=3102550

This is my interpretation as well. Same goes for Wisco and Minny. As we had started taking the steps to retire the nickname, they were starting to be willing to play us. But, if we say screw you to the NCAA and get back on the black list, they will probably go back to not scheduling us. The only way the will play us as the Fighting Sioux is if we're not on the NCAA's list. If Big10 hockey comes about, we may see them (Wisco and Minny) not schedule us in hockey because of this.

[The Sicatoka]

So, I'm fairly confident that the lesson of Hanlon's Razor applies here, which is "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

... it's more likely to be the result of media ignorance.

I've had to deal with Fargo media during a time in my life. I can confirm Teeder's takes on this subject.

(When the reporter doesn't know what the ND Century Code is, much less says, you know there's a problem.)

[Fetch]

I'm one of the Mostly Hockey Fans

But to lose the name for a chance to play Minnesota - Wisco & Iowa in other sports does not register as OK by me

How many times has Fargo played any of these teams & after how many yrs at D1 & after they almost beat the Goofs I'm thinking those Big schools are thinking, why play them again, it only hurts & embarrasses them

I'd still like to believe a United effort by all would change the NCAA's attitude & they would back off or even change their tune - But too many instead want to turn & run

There has never been a real everyone get on board to win this thing - I think it can still be won (especially with a referndum) & then knowing the results of the Sioux County vote - then if they say No I will let the name go - but until then SHAME ON the quitters & worry worts about possible negatives & of course the PC police

[dmksioux]

Personally, I don't buy this horror story of teams not scheduling us. That is a hypothetical argument and has no basis of fact at this point...pure speculation. We have been listed hostile and abusive for years now and I don't think it has been much of an issue with teams avoiding us. Furthermore, those who spew this scheduling nightmare for UND have to remember that the NCAA is not held in high requard by many schools. The NCAA has been a pain in the ass to the majority of the schools it represents and I don't think it would be hard to find many schools who would go out of there way and schedule UND just to thumb their nose at the NCAA.

That said, if future scheduling would become an issue, can't we sit down with these universities and give them the facts. If I am not mistaken isn't UND in the education business? If a school has a problem scheduling UND then maybe UND should educate them on the facts of the issue. How hard would it be for President Kelley to meet with these people and bring the good folks from Standing Rock and Spirit Nation with him to explain to these universities the truth of the matter. The facts speak for themselves and the truth is always easy to communicate. I can't believe that if a school will not schedule UND our administration would just throw their hands in the air without dialog...how pathetic!

If I have a customer that won't do business with me because he heard some lies about my company from a competitor I sure in the hell wouldn't take that sitting down! I would get on the phone immediately and prove to that customer that these lies have no merit and educate that customer about the truths and try to win back that customers confidence. There is a reason that Mr. Kelley and the rest of the administration wouldn't do this and it is obvious as the nose on your face...they have no intention and have never had intention of retaining the name!

Not being disrespectful, but I disagree with most everything you stated here. First off, there already are schools not choosing to play us because we were on the NCAA list. See Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin. You could also give Dartmouth a call to see if they would be interested in scheduling us again...my guess is probably not. You can state that the NCAA is not held in high regards by many schools but there voting shows where they stand on this issue. If you remember back when the NCAA initiated this Hostile and Abusive rule, it was formed in a committee and passed by the committe into their by-laws. During the UND's court battle, the NCAA put the rule to a vote of all member institutions, and it passed overwhelmingly. If you were to say that sports fans of other Universities don't hold the NCAA in high regard then you would be correct.

As far as having Kelly sit down and visit with AD's/Presidents who are skeptical about playing us, that is not realistic. If a President/AD from another school is presented with these two options: 1. Schedule a school with no controversy or 2. Try to work with UND, sit down with their President, visit with Tribal Elders, talk to their media about what language is or isn't permissable when covering the event, visit with students to make sure they don't do anything stupid such as offensive chants, offensive shirts, offensive posters (all of which could be portrayed negatively in the media), etc...the list can get quite long. Which option do you think they will do? My guess is the President/AD will choose the first option, and if they still are considering playing UND, they will just call the President of Dartmouth or the President of Texas Tech and ask them if it's worth the potential negative press to play UND.

There was a fight to be fought in the nickname battle, and that fight could have been won had it taken place 2, 5, 10+ years ago. Unfortunately, I don't see UND winning this battle now except for one scenario. That scenario involves the Standing Rock tribe coming out fairly quickly and supporting the name. Even then, I feel some schools still won't schedule UND.

[dmksioux]

Like many others, this is a tough issue for me..................

I love the name and logo as much as anyone and would love to keep it. But when the news broke about the legislature passing this I had mixed emotions. I like the idea of giving the NCAA the middle finger for sticking there nose into somewhere that it didn't belong..............but I feel I also grasp the potential ramifications that will come toward the entire University athletic department as a result of keeping the name.

I think I would fall into the category of being more of a football and basketball fan than a hockey fan, although I'm a season ticket holder for hockey and I attend more hockey games than any other University athletic event. I guess coming from a small ND town and having no exposure to the sport of hockey until I attended the University plays the largest part in that.

I'm a moderator on this site that regularly patrols the football, basketball, DI reclassification, community and other sports forums, but I rarely police the hockey forum because I'm not that knowledgable about the sport in general, just a fan of North Dakota, so I leave that to others.

I also rarely enter the nickname forum, but when I do (this thread for example), I find a majority of posters in favor of retaining the name at all costs, a minority that errs on the side of caution, and a miniscule number in favor of doing away with the name. What I find intriguing is that when I do get involved in the nickname forum, I am rarely reading posts from members that also participate in the football, basketball, DI, or other sports forums. But most of those names and avatars I can find as prominent posters in the hockey forum. There is nothing wrong with that at all...........you won't find many more passionate fans than UND hockey fans.................the only reason I mention it is that I've read numerous posts in this forum that proclaim that the nickname is not divisive on the UND campus. I actually think it is. And I don't mean by the Native American students, or the PC professors..................I mean between the stakeholders of the University. Unfortunately, it seems like it has come down to showdown between UND's hockey-only fans and UND's all-sports fans.................

With the move to DI, it is true that likely the only sport affected by post-season sanctions as far as hosting goes is football. To me, and likely many others, that is a big deal. It is difficult to win national championships at our level of football without home field advantage. As a hockey fan, I fear Big 10 hockey. Sure one can speculated that Minnesota and Wisconsin will only have 20 conference games, and they need to fill the rest of their schedule. We can argue until we're blue in the face that the Gophers will not walk away from the UND rivalry, but what motivation would there be to keep it going? Every other Minnesota program (SCSU, UMD, MSU, BSU) will do cartwheels to stay on their schedules. I would think it to be highly unlikely that UMTC would continue to travel to Grand Forks when they won't even invite our track & field teams to their campus. North Dakota is the only Dakota school to not have played football or basketball on Minnesota's campus the last 4 years for a reason. Honestly, that doesn't break my heart, but if this bill passes, we won't be welcome on Wisconsin's or Iowa's campus's either. Not a big deal for hockey, but it is for every other sport within the program. Who knows who else will follow their lead?

Good post and lots of interesting points to consider...

[Oxbow6]

There was a fight to be fought in the nickname battle, and that fight could have been won had it taken place 2, 5, 10+ years ago. Unfortunately, I don't see UND winning this battle now except for one scenario. That scenario involves the Standing Rock tribe coming out fairly quickly and supporting the name. Even then, I feel some schools still won't schedule UND.

I hear this argument that "some" schools won't schedule UND, but to play devil's advocate, what percentage of overall games in every sport would that possibly represent? If UND now has a full-time conference affilation in almost every sport, the out of conference games that need to be scheduled are few and far between.

In FB, we went to Idaho and got totally worked, but according to Mussman "we went toe to toe with them". In men's BB we went to Wisconsin and...got worked. Playing "big" name schools for a program such as UND really only gets UND one sure thing...a payday. Will UND pull off an upset of a "big time" school down the road? Probably, but they will be few and very very far between. Are there are plenty of "big time" programs that would and will schedule UND even with the Sioux name? I'd say yes.

If playing Minny, Iowa or Wisconsin in FB or BB, is the "goal" here long term for our athletic dept....personally I'd rather have the Sioux crest on the jerseys. A beatdown by Idaho is the same beatdown as it would be vs. Fresno St., Iowa or USC.

[dmksioux]

I hear this argument that "some" schools won't schedule UND, but to play devil's advocate, what percentage of overall games in every sport would that possibly represent? If UND now has a full-time conference affilation in almost every sport, the out of conference games that need to be scheduled are few and far between.

In FB, we went to Idaho and got totally worked, but according to Mussman "we went toe to toe with them". In men's BB we went to Wisconsin and...got worked. Playing "big" name school for a program such as UND really only gets UND one sure thing...a payday. Will UND pull off an upset of a "big time" school down the road? Probably, but they will be few and very very far between. Are there are plenty of "big time" programs that would and will schedule UND even with the Sioux name? I'd say yes.

If playing Minny, Iowa or Wisconsin in FB or BB, is the "goal" here long term for our athletic dept....personally I'd rather have the Sioux crest on the jerseys. A beatdown by Idaho is the same beatdown as it would be vs. Fresno St., Iowa or USC.

It may be a small amount of schools right now, or they may be some schools we don't know about that are refusing to play us because of the name. When I see the stories that came about with Dartmouth and Texas Tech, I can't help but think that as time goes by, the list of schools who won't play us will continue to grow. I could be way off base on this but I have a difficult time weighing out the pro's and con's. I love the Sioux name as most do on this board, but I would also like to see UND's athletic department be successful at the DI level. Personally, getting thrashed by schools like Idaho in both football and basketball is not ok with me. I feel we have the resources and committment to put out a product as good if not better than those types of schools but that is a different argument. If UND ends up on the NCAA's bad list, I don't see anything good happening to our athletic department. If there is a way we can keep the name and avoid that list, I'm all for it.

[ksixpack]

Not being disrespectful, but I disagree with most everything you stated here. First off, there already are schools not choosing to play us because we were on the NCAA list. See Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin. As far as having Kelly sit down and visit with AD's/Presidents who are skeptical about playing us, that is not realistic. If a President/AD from another school is presented with these two options: 1. Schedule a school with no controversy or 2. Try to work with UND, sit down with their President, visit with Tribal Elders, talk to their media about what language is or isn't permissable when covering the event, visit with students to make sure they don't do anything stupid such as offensive chants, offensive shirts, offensive posters (all of which could be portrayed negatively in the media), etc...the list can get quite long. Which option do you think they will do? My guess is the President/AD will choose the first option, and if they still are considering playing UND, they will just call the President of Dartmouth or the President of Texas Tech and ask them if it's worth the potential negative press to play UND.

Then again you could call the other 98% of the schools we have scheduled over the last ten years without incident and I am sure you would get a very favorable thumbs up from them. I am sure the Big Sky schools will agree that we are a great asset as we will have a great presence at their venues in the very near future adding to their bottom line. I am sure all the teams in the WCHA are very happy to have us on the schedule as just about all of the record attendence numbers in the WCHA were generated against UND as our fans flock to their building to watch their beloved Sioux play. I am sure the WCHA is happy when we make it to the WCHA Final Five year in an year out as we, by far, bring the largest contingent to the event...last year an estimated 10,000 Sioux fans packed the Xcel Center for the championship game. So you see the doomsday scenarios you spout are not the whole truth. You state a couple of very isolated incidents by a couple of morrons at the home school and explain it is an end all, when in fact there are many universities out there that love to schedule UND...just ask the commisioner of the Big Sky and the voting members. The glass is not empty, the sky is not falling....

[Oxbow6]

It may be a small amount of schools right now, or they may be some schools we don't know about that are refusing to play us because of the name. When I see the stories that came about with Dartmouth and Texas Tech, I can't help but think that as time goes by, the list of schools who won't play us will continue to grow. I could be way off base on this but I have a difficult time weighing out the pro's and con's. I love the Sioux name as most do on this board, but I would also like to see UND's athletic department be successful at the DI level. Personally, getting thrashed by schools like Idaho in both football and basketball is not ok with me. I feel we have the resources and committment to put out a product as good if not better than those types of schools but that is a different argument. If UND ends up on the NCAA's bad list, I don't see anything good happening to our athletic department. If there is a way we can keep the name and avoid that list, I'm all for it.

And there lies the dilema that UND is in now with the legislative involvement. I'm for trying any avenue to keep the name AND stay off the NCAA "black" list. Can that be done?? We'll see...